Are Mclarens Mileage Sensitive ?

[GRBF430F1]

LukeyLikey said:

Sat Nav and stereo perfect, really nice fit. Honestly, everything on my car is as it should be - very, very tight. Much more so than a 360, 430, even California (which was also good) and at the level of my 911.

I think the carbon tub is the main reason for it staying as tight as when I first got it.

Sounds to me like you need to drive a few to put your mind at rest but I don't think any reason not to buy one is down to its sturdiness. I think they will fare very well over the long term too.

Driving one tomorrow. Hopefully the weather will be ok to get the roof down as well

[LukeyLikey]

GRBF430F1 said:

Driving one tomorrow. Hopefully the weather will be ok to get the roof down as well

You won't be able to get the impression of speed that the car can deliver on a test drive but you should get the general idea. I test drove mine last November but the reality with warm roads/tyres is another thing altogether! Be aware that there is a two-stage throttle. For full power you have to push through a sort of 'notch' at the end of the travel. I doubt you will easily get all the torque down at the moment but you can try....!

[GRBF430F1]

LukeyLikey said:

You won't be able to get the impression of speed that the car can deliver on a test drive but you should get the general idea. I test drove mine last November but the reality with warm roads/tyres is another thing altogether! Be aware that there is a two-stage throttle. For full power you have to push through a sort of 'notch' at the end of the travel. I doubt you will easily get all the torque down at the moment but you can try....!

Ok thanks, don't normally drive mad on public roads in my own car let alone a strange one that belongs to someone else.
Drove one briefly 18 mths ago but whilst I knew it was lightening quick I didn't think it was involving or exciting enough and I missed the N/a V8 sound but they have grown on me a bit especially in spider form so I'm willing to give it another go.

Do you ever think you should of spent £30k more and gone for a 458 as everyone I ask within the trade says as good as the McLaren is it is not as much fun as the 458. I like my scud and performante as they are both fun in different ways whereas the 12C struck me as being so accomplished it was too good for its own good

[LukeyLikey]

GRBF430F1 said:

Ok thanks, don't normally drive mad on public roads in my own car let alone a strange one that belongs to someone else.
Drove one briefly 18 mths ago but whilst I knew it was lightening quick I didn't think it was involving or exciting enough and I missed the N/a V8 sound but they have grown on me a bit especially in spider form so I'm willing to give it another go.

Do you ever think you should of spent £30k more and gone for a 458 as everyone I ask within the trade says as good as the McLaren is it is not as much fun as the 458. I like my scud and performante as they are both fun in different ways whereas the 12C struck me as being so accomplished it was too good for its own good

No, very clear I didn't want a standard 458. I already had a CS in the garage for the n/a mid engined hit (since sold in favour of a Speciale) and a number of friends had 458s which made me think I ought to try something different. Just as well because they upgraded - Aventador, F12, Speciale etc. Felt the need to keep up and was pleased to find I could do at least that.

For a car to do long distance tours, along with my wife, it is brilliant. If you don't have an n/a car in the garage then maybe worth making a different choice, but since you do, I think the 12C really adds to your garage.

The 'normal mode' and massive torque make this car really usable on all sorts of roads.

[GRBF430F1]

LukeyLikey said:

No, very clear I didn't want a standard 458. I already had a CS in the garage for the n/a mid engined hit (since sold in favour of a Speciale) and a number of friends had 458s which made me think I ought to try something different. Just as well because they upgraded - Aventador, F12, Speciale etc. Felt the need to keep up and was pleased to find I could do at least that.

For a car to do long distance tours, along with my wife, it is brilliant. If you don't have an n/a car in the garage then maybe worth making a different choice, but since you do, I think the 12C really adds to your garage.

The 'normal mode' and massive torque make this car really usable on all sorts of roads.

My aim was to upgrade the Scuderia for a speciale in a couple years time probably if I can wait that long as I'm very impatient and get bored quickly with cars.
I specced up a new Speciale but the dealers convinced me to buy the Scuderia first as I had not previously had a striped out racer before. Hopefully the gap may have reduced between the 2 cars in a couple of years, who knows what Scuderia will do next year.
Having always had Ferrari's until the Lambo I've always thought they were the best thing since sliced bread but I think I'm a bit more open minded to alternative brands now and its nice for a change. If I do get a Speciale I think a 12C spider will be a better alternative than a 458 spider otherwise its all too similar. If I keep the Scud instead I'm more inclined to go 458 spider and have a stable of prancing horses.

I think the 12 C spider looks better and technically on paper is better but I just don't get all the reviews and knockers. Hope to make my own mind up by the end of this week all being well

[GRBF430F1]

Wow, I'm lost for words.....

Ok so you can all stop cheering now !

What a car(s). Drove both 12 C Spider and 650S. The 12C spider was better than I remember it from about a year ago just a little disappointed with the sound track from the sports exhaust although for a turbo car it wasn't bad just not a Ferrari V8 scream. Boy is it quick and refined

Then went out in the 650S and that's on another level again, a 12 C on steroids. A bit like the step from 458 to speciale but not as extreme as you retain the creature comforts but have to say it seemed quicker again.
Was about to sign up on a stock 650s spider car until I realised it didn't have the Meridian surround sound speaker upgrade £3080.
Gutted but I don't want to compromise on a brand new car of this price and the music is important to me in this particular car. Whilst it was part of the IRIS upgrade on 12C its separate on 650S and apparently very few people spec it. They had another car with it but unfortunately it was silver which did nothing for the car IMHO

Anyone with a 650S spider who can comment on the quality/loudness of the standard Meridian sound system as it seemed a bit tinny with no oomph and seemed to be only 2 door speakers as opposed to 9 or 11 with the upgrade which presumably has an amp as well
I think with the noise the car makes and with the roof down it will be hard to hear any music on the basic system ?

[TP321]

So you like it now??

[GRBF430F1]

TP321 said:

So you like it now??

It has grown on me in spider form and I have always thought it was incredible technology and amazing value for money. I think the 650S improvements make it more rewarding for sure and I would now say its at least equal to the exiting 458 if thats a fair comparison of old versus new model.

Like for like 458 spider v 12C spider I still think the Ferrari is slightly better because of the noise but its generally £25k more expensive less free servicing ( worth say £10k )

[TISPKJ]

The 42k mile car that started this thread is apparently sold I have just been told.
will be interesting to see where it resurfaces.

[Soov535]

TISPKJ said:

The 42k mile car that started this thread is apparently sold I have just been told.
will be interesting to see where it resurfaces.

And whether the owner comes on her only to be told he's bought a hire car.

[isaldiri]

GRBF430F1 said:

The 12C spider was better than I remember it from about a year ago just a little disappointed with the sound track from the sports exhaust although for a turbo car it wasn't bad just not a Ferrari V8 scream. Boy is it quick and refined

Then went out in the 650S and that's on another level again, a 12 C on steroids. A bit like the step from 458 to speciale but not as extreme as you retain the creature comforts but have to say it seemed quicker again.

That's quite interesting. Is there anyone else who isn't a 12c owner who has driven both cars and thinks the same - ie that the 650 is a significant step up? Am genuinely quite interested to see people who are unbiased by being 12c owners think......

[GRBF430F1]

isaldiri said:

That's quite interesting. Is there anyone else who isn't a 12c owner who has driven both cars and thinks the same - ie that the 650 is a significant step up? Am genuinely quite interested to see people who are unbiased by being 12c owners think......

Everyone knows I'm Ferrari mad and wasn't overly keen on the MP4 12C coupe when it first came out but with the FOC upgrades McLaren provided the car did get significantly better and the 12 C spider was always very good from the outset.
At the time I briefly drove a 12C spider about a year ago I was directly comparing it with the Performante I ended up buying which was sensual overload both visually and aurally but not in the same league techinically.

The 12C spider has grown on me and I never knocked its technical abilities I just felt it was a little too refined and not the best soundtrack to make it exciting other than driving at worp speed.

I went to buy a 12C spider yesterday and drove it back to back with the 650S spider which was probably not the best idea in hindsight as now I realise how much better the 650S actually is. It is incredible that they have been able to improve it by so much from such a high level in the first place but the overall sensation is so much more exciting and rewarding.
The steering is heavier which I prefer and its so quick and precise. The handling settings are noticeable broader with track being more hardcore and normal probably being smoother again. Throttle response is quicker and the torque more linear. The sound is also a lot better with pops and bangs with gear changes and lift offs.
Sensational piece of engineering which has also found some real soul.

Dilemma I have now is justifying another £80K+ for one.
Does it make financial sense - NO
Is the car £80k better - YES it is.
Just like the scuderia v standard 430 or 458 italia v speciale.
The significant changes made to 650S over 12C makes an even bigger difference to the finished product.

Have to say on reflection a day later the 650 s absolutely blows the 458 spider away and the 458 T is going to have to be sensational to get anywhere close.
From my early discussions with Ferrari dealers I don't get the feeling it will be when they describe it as a temporary evolution or holding car for some 1.4 hybrid type car coming in 2020 where all the development money has been spent on
Will this see a swing from Ferrari in favour of McLaren I don't know but I like to think I buy a car on its merits and not on its badge and being unbiased the 650 S gets a big thumbs up from me

Anyway looks like I'm going to have to get a bigger paper round now to raise all that extra dosh

Edited by GRBF430F1 on Wednesday 3rd December 21:37

[TP321]

GRBF430F1 said:

Dilemma I have now is justifying another £80K+ for one.
Does it make financial sense - NO
Is the car £80k better - YES it is.
Just like the scuderia v standard 430 or 458 italia v speciale.
The significant changes made to 650S over 12C makes an even bigger difference to the finished product.

Edited by GRBF430F1 on Wednesday 3rd December 21:37

Glad you liked it, but cant see many people agreeing with you on the "Is the car £80k better - YES it is" statement. If that was the case, there would be a waiting list of the 650S.

[GRBF430F1]

TP321 said:

Glad you liked it, but cant see many people agreeing with you on the "Is the car £80k better - YES it is" statement. If that was the case, there would be a waiting list of the 650S.

I think maybe one of the problems is those early adoptors of the brand that bought 12 C new at near full up list have suffered huge depreciation effectively making them think twice and potentially out of the market altogether for 650 S

Those that have a tight budget like myself might be able to stretch to a used 12 C which is incredible value for money and therefore think the improvement is not worth it.
If you can stretch the budget and that's a big ask at 50% more I do genuinely think its worth it and I believe now its a more accomplished car overall its residual will be far stronger. Of course it all depends on supply and demand but McLaren is not going to reach Ferrari mass production numbers and are only looking at 1500 a year anyway.
Be interesting to see Ferrari's reaction with the 458 T.
Just watched a video comparing 650S with Speciale and the Mac wooped the Ferraris 4r53.

What's peoples opinion on the best colour for a 12C / 650S ?
Seems to be loads of blacks and greys but these don't really show off the lines or carbon details of the cars.

I'm leaning towards Volcano Red TBH - classy and really pops in bright sunlight

[TP321]

Volcano red all the way.

[isaldiri]

GRBF430F1 said:

If you can stretch the budget and that's a big ask at 50% more I do genuinely think its worth it and I believe now its a more accomplished car overall

I'm leaning towards Volcano Red TBH - classy and really pops in bright sunlight

Interesting to read that as someone who isn't going to be biased by any attachment to the existing 12c.

Personally I like dark colours on the Mclarens, it hides the bloody squaliforme inspired front bumper that frank stephenson seems insistent on smacking onto every car so far. Volcano red on it's own is a lovely colour though I agree.

[GRBF430F1]

isaldiri said:

Interesting to read that as someone who isn't going to be biased by any attachment to the existing 12c.

Personally I like dark colours on the Mclarens, it hides the bloody squaliforme inspired front bumper that frank stephenson seems insistent on smacking onto every car so far. Volcano red on it's own is a lovely colour though I agree.

I'm well known for being a tight wad ( except maybe for cars ) and I always seek value for money by buying used rather than new so my natural intuition was telling me to buy a 12C spider until I drove the 650S.
Only a couple of used ones out there at the moment, both prob press cars, at £199k but maybe £190k would seal a deal and then its only £40k and 2 years newer than a 12C

[br d]

GRBF430F1 said:

isaldiri said:

Interesting to read that as someone who isn't going to be biased by any attachment to the existing 12c.

Personally I like dark colours on the Mclarens, it hides the bloody squaliforme inspired front bumper that frank stephenson seems insistent on smacking onto every car so far. Volcano red on it's own is a lovely colour though I agree.

I'm well known for being a tight wad ( except maybe for cars ) and I always seek value for money by buying used rather than new so my natural intuition was telling me to buy a 12C spider until I drove the 650S.
Only a couple of used ones out there at the moment, both prob press cars, at £199k but maybe £190k would seal a deal and then its only £40k and 2 years newer than a 12C

I've been looking at those cars too, does put me off a bit knowing they would have been thrashed to death at every opportunity but it would still be nice not having to soak up the early 50k hit.

I like the McLaren Orange, I love the green but not sure I would continue to love it!

[breadvan]

Speaking recently to one of the dealers, it would appear McLaren Orange and Black are the most in-demand colours right now, then Volcano Red with Volcano Orange and the Silvers following on.

Also, carbon interior and a wheel upgrade are really important due to their huge retrofit costs (something like £5k for the interior and £9k for the wheels).

The exhaust and carbon bits can be added-to-taste later.

All subjective of course.

[LukeyLikey]

VR is a nice colour, especially for a Spider. Don't think the 650 beating up the Speciale is a common view - came nowhere in the recent Autocar and EVO COTY tests, both of which were won by the Speciale, unanimously so in the case of EVO and for the first time ever.

The appeal of the 12C and 650 is a bit subtler. Hence the reason for the darker colours.

As a 12C owner you would expect me to say it, but the 650 is not £80k more car, not even close IMV. The main changes made were 25% stiffer springs, new front end and the extra 25bhp. The latter is hard to notice in reality, with the two cars lapping most circuits within a second of each other - hardly worth £80k.

Those who have upgraded, as you would expect, report nice improvements in the handling but the 12C is already a very strong car in that respect.

If you are not too worried about depreciation, or consider that having a new car is worth the extra depreciation cost (why not?) and you like the look of the 650, that is the right choice. Otherwise, the 12C makes a very compelling case. It will also always be the first one. Does that have significance? Maybe in 20 years.

I could opt to upgrade to a 650 but cannot stand the front end, I've tried but am simply not warming to it at all. I'm not worried by the driving improvements, I don't believe them to be significant enough. If the depreciation is an issue for you, the 12C is the best choice (and by far the best looking!!)

Sounds like you're a 650 kinda guy though!