Discussion
Anjum said:
...and you can option the rear lift as well - like the P1 - there is so much carbon on the rear diffuser (which will have different options too!!!!) that you wouldn't want to scrape it against a gradient/pavement/kerb - which is why the 100KG lighter figure is such horses
t, when you spec a car for the real world........
Agreed the 100kg weight saving almost certainly includes stuff like aircon delete and i guess, radio delete plus no roll cage. However even allowing say 30kg to add those back, at 60-70kg lighter than a 650, the 675 will be very meaningfully lighter than a speciale. Real world weighed fully fuelled speciales seem to end up weighing around ~1490-1500kg and that is already a decent amount heavier than the 12c.t, when you spec a car for the real world........isaldiri said:
Agreed the 100kg weight saving almost certainly includes stuff like aircon delete and i guess, radio delete plus no roll cage. However even allowing say 30kg to add those back, at 60-70kg lighter than a 650, the 675 will be very meaningfully lighter than a speciale. Real world weighed fully fuelled speciales seem to end up weighing around ~1490-1500kg and that is already a decent amount heavier than the 12c.
air con added back adds 8.5kg, the radio and Bluetooth is standard fit, the roll cage option is titanium and its a show rollover hoop so is pretty pointless anyway (in comparison with a proper race roll cage) but they wouldn't give a weight, Then the lift kit adds 9kgs. Total weight added back for most will be 18-19kg + a few more for the roll hoop but double that will be 12kg. So closer to 82kgs (my body weight) less than a 650 for most cars. Probably 1250kg total which is impressive.
I have a set of corner weight scales, I'll weigh my Speciale in 2 weeks when I get it out of storage and get an accurate figure as I have wondered what it would be on the road.
Hollowpockets said:
air con added back adds 8.5kg, the radio and Bluetooth is standard fit, the roll cage option is titanium and its a show rollover hoop so is pretty pointless anyway (in comparison with a proper race roll cage) but they wouldn't give a weight, Then the lift kit adds 9kgs.
Total weight added back for most will be 18-19kg + a few more for the roll hoop but double that will be 12kg. So closer to 82kgs (my body weight) less than a 650 for most cars. Probably 1250kg total which is impressive.
I have a set of corner weight scales, I'll weigh my Speciale in 2 weeks when I get it out of storage and get an accurate figure as I have wondered what it would be on the road.
Would be interested to see what you get when you weigh your car, I know someone in italy who mentioned he weighed his speciale at 1498kg or something fully fueled but it had a fair bit of kit as well to be fair. As reference, the 12c (my car with full leather interior and very little cf options but lightest wheels and no ceramics) weighed ~1470kg fully fuelled when I popped it onto some scales a few years ago. Total weight added back for most will be 18-19kg + a few more for the roll hoop but double that will be 12kg. So closer to 82kgs (my body weight) less than a 650 for most cars. Probably 1250kg total which is impressive.
I have a set of corner weight scales, I'll weigh my Speciale in 2 weeks when I get it out of storage and get an accurate figure as I have wondered what it would be on the road.
Would expect the 675 even with some kit to be not much more than 1350kg all in which would be very light compared to anything else similar around.
polar8 said:
I wish to love a local home based supercar manufacturer, but this company continues to shaft it's own customer base.
I owned a 2011 12C and I must have been in the minority thinking the ride comfort was pretty poor. Ultimately I sold due to the awful sound it made - it had the sports exhaust but I couldn't live with the constant drone (plus the swipe door openings didn't work - especially when it's raining and everyone is looking at you, the iris system was useless, the 'upgrade' stereo system terrible).
Why does McLaren keep doing 'this car is much better than the expensive car you've just purchased three months ago' thing. And why is Alonso still in hospital if everything is 'normal'? That's a different thread.
Rant over.
I feel the same way, about supporting a British manufacturer. But already the P14, so the replacement for the MP4-12c/650/650s/675LT (and I'm sure there'll be a few more iterations before the end) is the new focus and with the P13 being launched in NYC in March, I am concerned that McLaren are not focused on releasing products that have been thoroughly developed (the P13 has had the CF monocoque changed to assist with getting in and out of the car, which to me means that it is already highlighted for change today, but without the business case to justify investment to change, remembering that the P13 will be the volume model, so needs to be as appealing as possible.....I owned a 2011 12C and I must have been in the minority thinking the ride comfort was pretty poor. Ultimately I sold due to the awful sound it made - it had the sports exhaust but I couldn't live with the constant drone (plus the swipe door openings didn't work - especially when it's raining and everyone is looking at you, the iris system was useless, the 'upgrade' stereo system terrible).
Why does McLaren keep doing 'this car is much better than the expensive car you've just purchased three months ago' thing. And why is Alonso still in hospital if everything is 'normal'? That's a different thread.
Rant over.
Edited by polar8 on Thursday 26th February 07:27
I can understand your frustrations, based on your experience and really do think McLaren need to listen to customers (or more importantly EX-customers much more closely). I have a couple of friends who are lucky enough to be ordering P1s and one friend who has taken up the P1 GTR offer. Strangely enough, their experience is very different to yours, and they get treated like royalty, a bit like Ferrari with its FXX and F1 customers as well as many other manufacturers....
Lastly, I take most things that GBRF430F1 spouts with a pinch of salt, and can not understand why he is obsessed with putting Ferrari down. As a car enthusiast, I love Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin. McLaren et al. i am trying to love McLaren, but a self appointed McLaren Brand Ambassador, he is single handedly losing them sales......
Edited by Anjum on Thursday 26th February 10:54
DeltonaS said:
GRBF430F1 said:
Be interesting to see how it stacks up with the 458 Speciale. Up to now Speciale ( track car ) has been compared with 650S ( Road car )which to be fair the 650S has come out with honours
On paper the 675LT looks to have moved the benchmark on again performance wise and if they have made even greater improvements on the subjective feel elements as they have successfully achieved with the 650S v 12C its going to be totally awesome dude.
Rumoured price tag circa £300k with options and worldwide allocation of 500 sold out so if your names not down you can't come in !
I don't know which planet your on, but from what I've read the Speciale was better received than the 650S.On paper the 675LT looks to have moved the benchmark on again performance wise and if they have made even greater improvements on the subjective feel elements as they have successfully achieved with the 650S v 12C its going to be totally awesome dude.
Rumoured price tag circa £300k with options and worldwide allocation of 500 sold out so if your names not down you can't come in !
And I think McLaren is racking up new editions from what's basically the same platform as a 12C a bit too fast.
He is saying most tests were a track focused car (speciale) v a road focused car (650s) which the speciale won.
Now we will have track focused v track focused so a bit more of a level playing field.
TISPKJ said:
Not wishing to defend said person but think you are miss reading this.
He is saying most tests were a track focused car (speciale) v a road focused car (650s) which the speciale won.
Now we will have track focused v track focused so a bit more of a level playing field.
Absolutely. Coming out with honours is not saying it won hands down but for starters its not comparing apples with apples.He is saying most tests were a track focused car (speciale) v a road focused car (650s) which the speciale won.
Now we will have track focused v track focused so a bit more of a level playing field.
As a road going car personally I prefer the 650S but as a track based car no question its the 458 Speciale.
The real test is 458 Speciale v 675LT until Ferrari bring out the equivalent 488 lightweight special which will subsequently be trumped by McLaren net incarnation. The model change cycles are different so one should always have the advantage over the other ( presumably the new model ). Hence 488 GTB now versus 650S
What isn't a fair comparison or really relevant is a track car versus a road car tested on a track.
Test a track car on the road and see what the result would be then
Anjum said:
I feel the same way, about supporting a British manufacturer. But already the P14, so the replacement for the MP4-12c/650/650s/675LT (and I'm sure there'll be a few more iterations before the end) is the new focus and with the P13 being launched in NYC in March, I am concerned that McLaren are not focused on releasing products that have been thoroughly developed (the P13 has had the CF monocoque changed to assist with getting in and out of the car, which to me means that it is already highlighted for change today, but without the business case to justify investment to change, remembering that the P13 will be the volume model, so needs to be as appealing as possible.....
I can understand your frustrations, based on your experience and really do think McLaren need to listen to customers (or more importantly EX-customers much more closely). I have a couple of friends who are lucky enough to be ordering P1s and one friend who has taken up the P1 GTR offer. Strangely enough, their experience is very different to yours, and they get treated like royalty, a bit like Ferrari with its FXX and F1 customers as well as many other manufacturers....
Lastly, I take most things that GBRF430F1 spouts with a pinch of salt, and can not understand why he is obsessed with putting Ferrari down. As a car enthusiast, I love Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin. McLaren et al. i am trying to love McLaren, but a self appointed McLaren Brand Ambassador, he is single handedly losing them sales......
Far from putting Ferrari down I'm a diehard fan. My house is adorned with Ferrari pictures/paintings. I've also owned all of the car brands you have mentioned and more in the past. I can understand your frustrations, based on your experience and really do think McLaren need to listen to customers (or more importantly EX-customers much more closely). I have a couple of friends who are lucky enough to be ordering P1s and one friend who has taken up the P1 GTR offer. Strangely enough, their experience is very different to yours, and they get treated like royalty, a bit like Ferrari with its FXX and F1 customers as well as many other manufacturers....
Lastly, I take most things that GBRF430F1 spouts with a pinch of salt, and can not understand why he is obsessed with putting Ferrari down. As a car enthusiast, I love Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin. McLaren et al. i am trying to love McLaren, but a self appointed McLaren Brand Ambassador, he is single handedly losing them sales......
Edited by Anjum on Thursday 26th February 10:54
I still own a F355GTS ( which I will get buried in ) and I have only recently parted with my 430 Scuderia. My plan is to replace it with a 458 Speciale when I feel the value is right.
I buy a car on its merits. I don't think you have to be in one camp or the other and as a true petrolhead I also appreciate the McLaren brand and give credit where credit is due. There marketing is still poor at this stage of their development but you can't knock the quality of the product
Some people are just so blinkered.
As regards my ramblings effecting the marketplace, well I'm astonished quite frankly that I have that much influence without trying.
Maybe I need to step things up a bit and make a career out of it
Hummm, it does not do it for me.
The colour is probably a factor... What a poor choice... What is it called ? "primer" !!!
The front end is an improvement on the 650S. The line is finally smooth as per the P1.
But the rear end. Oh, dear. It looks like a tuning exercise. Way too busy and fussy.
The colour is probably a factor... What a poor choice... What is it called ? "primer" !!!
The front end is an improvement on the 650S. The line is finally smooth as per the P1.
But the rear end. Oh, dear. It looks like a tuning exercise. Way too busy and fussy.
Those pictures seem to be off colour wise. As far as purposeful track car goes it's spot on colour wise, Much better than the White from the preview night. The green/orange and white are for posing in London I guess. The Grey and Red would look good on track.
It needs to be seen in the flesh to be appreciated (probably goes for many of the new cars this year) but this thing is incredible and will run rings around most cars on circuit.
It needs to be seen in the flesh to be appreciated (probably goes for many of the new cars this year) but this thing is incredible and will run rings around most cars on circuit.
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