Discussion
flemke said:
Alternatively, nobody twisted Ron's arm to get into the road car business. Some ideas work, some don't. If they don't, the solution is not to act dishonourably.
Unless McLaren now resort to physical manipulation of their prospective client's limbs to ensure they sign on the dotted line for their newest toy ? nobody twisted your arm to make you purchase your P1/GTR F1/GTR or your 675LT, either. My guess is the only thing you'll have lost with the announcement of the Spider, is your pride (and several hours of your life pontificating at length on here). Joe911 said:
Exactly. There a bunch of red herrings in this thread - mostly about money - it's not really about the money, it's fundamentally about integrity, or lack of. The result of that lack of integrity could be a financial impact (which to some might be meaningful, to others not) on the buyers of the original coupes some of whom may have purchased based on a commitment from the manufacturer.
Hmmm, on the basis of the post below, I can't say I'm entirely convinced Joe. flemke said:
although in the last few years there has been a growing number of people who would buy nice cars purely in the hope of gaining a positive financial return from them, still the great majority of people who buy these sorts of cars do so because they love cars. Some want to drive them, others love just admiring them, but in either case they are true petrolheads.
For this overwhelming majority of car buyers, it is perfectly reasonable for them to care about the financial consequences of their purchases. Although in some scenarios they might make money, they know that usually the expectation is that they will lose money. In that case, they hope to lose as little as possible.
Unless someone is immensely wealthy, and often even then, it is unrealistic to expect him or her to be completely indifferent to how much money the car is going to cost during its ownership. I don't hear of many people buying a car without caring what the price is. Why should they not care what the total cost of ownership is likely to be?
I am not suggesting that nice cars should not be driven. Rather I am suggesting that people should not be thought less of because they care about the financial consequences of their car ownership, or because they object when a car company breaks promises with the effect of costing its customers large sums of money.
For this overwhelming majority of car buyers, it is perfectly reasonable for them to care about the financial consequences of their purchases. Although in some scenarios they might make money, they know that usually the expectation is that they will lose money. In that case, they hope to lose as little as possible.
Unless someone is immensely wealthy, and often even then, it is unrealistic to expect him or her to be completely indifferent to how much money the car is going to cost during its ownership. I don't hear of many people buying a car without caring what the price is. Why should they not care what the total cost of ownership is likely to be?
I am not suggesting that nice cars should not be driven. Rather I am suggesting that people should not be thought less of because they care about the financial consequences of their car ownership, or because they object when a car company breaks promises with the effect of costing its customers large sums of money.
Of course money matters unless you're so insanely rich and have no concept of the value of money. I think it's very narrow minded and deliberately antagonising to suggest that people who have bought a limited edition anything is only in it for the money. Obviously there are going to be a percentage who are but why tar everyone with the same brush?
As was mentioned previously, the introduction of an additional fairly similar/slightly more desirable model will most likely impact the existing model negatively. This shouldn't suggest that people who have bought the existing model are only in it for the money. It is very likely that a certain depreciation has been taken into account which has now been thrown off kilter by the new model. Not many people can afford to gamble 300k on a car appreciating especially given the apparent track record of existing cars compared to a certain red car
As was mentioned previously, the introduction of an additional fairly similar/slightly more desirable model will most likely impact the existing model negatively. This shouldn't suggest that people who have bought the existing model are only in it for the money. It is very likely that a certain depreciation has been taken into account which has now been thrown off kilter by the new model. Not many people can afford to gamble 300k on a car appreciating especially given the apparent track record of existing cars compared to a certain red car
oh no....that means the car will appreciate less than the non-investing car fanatic thought...
Imagine the idea of knowing for sure your car will depreciate...like oh I don't know say 99.99% of non-investing car fanatics' purchases...
it's all relative
Losing 1% appreciation on a £300,000 car (due to a lie from the manufacturer) would be like losing 1% on a £3000 car....
Imagine the idea of knowing for sure your car will depreciate...like oh I don't know say 99.99% of non-investing car fanatics' purchases...
it's all relative
Losing 1% appreciation on a £300,000 car (due to a lie from the manufacturer) would be like losing 1% on a £3000 car....
Slippydiff said:
Unless McLaren now resort to physical manipulation of their prospective client's limbs to ensure they sign on the dotted line for their newest toy ? nobody twisted your arm to make you purchase your P1/GTR F1/GTR or your 675LT, either. My guess is the only thing you'll have lost with the announcement of the Spider, is your pride (and several hours of your life pontificating at length on here).
Quickmoose said:
oh no....that means the car will appreciate less than the non-investing car fanatic thought...
Imagine the idea of knowing for sure your car will depreciate...like oh I don't know say 99.99% of non-investing car fanatics' purchases...
it's all relative
Losing 1% appreciation on a £300,000 car (due to a lie from the manufacturer) would be like losing 1% on a £3000 car....
Imagine the idea of knowing for sure your car will depreciate...like oh I don't know say 99.99% of non-investing car fanatics' purchases...
it's all relative
Losing 1% appreciation on a £300,000 car (due to a lie from the manufacturer) would be like losing 1% on a £3000 car....
SydneyBridge said:
Spider sold out
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/22/mclaren-675lt-s...
All is not as it appears to be again... It looks like dealers or independent have taken build slots to sale at a premium to customers.... Prindiville has no less than 2 slots available...http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/22/mclaren-675lt-s...
From Ash's post, it also looks like getting a slot on a 675LT coupe was still possible way after the allocations were supposedly completely over subscribed.
So, I have to say I agree with Flemke on this one. The lack of transparency and integrity from McLaren might earn them a few quid today but it will deter creating a loyal customer base they can sale over and over again.
So the implication is that just because someone can afford a £300k car they shouldn't care if their car depreciates. I didn't know that buying a Ltd edition anything guarantees appreciation in the value. All those Peugeot 205 'Caribbean sunset' Ltd edition owners must be over the moon at how much their car is worth now!
P.s merry xmas to all! Don't eat too much turkey. It will only make your car slower!
P.s merry xmas to all! Don't eat too much turkey. It will only make your car slower!
Edited by cho on Thursday 24th December 11:40
Edited by cho on Thursday 24th December 11:41
NickOrangeCars said:
Was over at McLaren Ascot and this was in the showroom - gorgeous! The roof scoop is just fantastic + orange seats. Overall spec was very high, I think full carbon.
Apologies for previous pics (which were upside down)
A chap I know has picked up a very similar car recently - carbon roof but no scoop... looks sensational and he says the best car he has ever driven!!!Apologies for previous pics (which were upside down)
Edited by NickOrangeCars on Sunday 20th December 10:30
I've got a couple of cars that I bought, that I expected to hold their value. Luckily enough they have gone up recently like everything else, but that's immaterial unless the price is still up when or if I decide to sell.
I use them properly, but if I had known for sure they would depreciate, I wouldn't have bought them, as It would have been too much money to burn.
Right now, I wouldn't buy most 'investment' cars, as IMO there's a bubble to burst at some point, When it bursts, there are a couple I would try to buy at that 'over corrected' point in the market. If that makes me a speculator with the chance to try more cars than an 'enthusiast' without any such cars, then thats fine by me!
To me personally, the LT is a car to own for a while if you're able to, but not a lifetime keeper. So, I would be very interested in the likely cost of ownership, and would not like to have been promised to be 1/500 when in the end it's 1/1000. I would say that's likely to have negatively tipped the balance between LT holding its value, and depreciating.
Ifsomeone of whom you are a good customer breaks a promise, and it costs you money, then you're right to be pissed off, IMO - relating to cars or anything else.
I use them properly, but if I had known for sure they would depreciate, I wouldn't have bought them, as It would have been too much money to burn.
Right now, I wouldn't buy most 'investment' cars, as IMO there's a bubble to burst at some point, When it bursts, there are a couple I would try to buy at that 'over corrected' point in the market. If that makes me a speculator with the chance to try more cars than an 'enthusiast' without any such cars, then thats fine by me!
To me personally, the LT is a car to own for a while if you're able to, but not a lifetime keeper. So, I would be very interested in the likely cost of ownership, and would not like to have been promised to be 1/500 when in the end it's 1/1000. I would say that's likely to have negatively tipped the balance between LT holding its value, and depreciating.
Ifsomeone of whom you are a good customer breaks a promise, and it costs you money, then you're right to be pissed off, IMO - relating to cars or anything else.
Did about 100 miles today in the LT, burnt a full tank and got things nice and hot. Still got grip issues even though fully dry today, rear lighting up from 0 to 100 pretty much anywhere on any surface. Question, can the traction be turned fully off? If so how. Thanks
Going to try reducing the pressures a few psi before the next trip out.
Going to try reducing the pressures a few psi before the next trip out.
Edited by TrackTwit on Monday 28th December 22:19
Shmee said:
Are you in ESC Dynamic? Single press of the button in the centre of the Handling toggle when Active is enabled. I find without that, traction kicks in far too early.
No, have not tried that at all yet. Thanks for the tip, I will certainly try that tomorrow. Planning another 100 miler tomorrow, taking advantage of the dry and relatively clear roads. Shmee, I sent you a question re GT4 a week or so ago, not sure if you managed to read it. I also have a GT4 coming in March and like the exhaust you fitted, how does this (if at all) affect the warranty. Cheers
flemke said:
Be careful starting off by dropping pressures, in the expectation that as the tyre heats up the pressure will reach optimal. Running too low pressure even for a brief period can permanently damage the carcase. Always better to start at normal pressure, do a lap or maybe two, reduce pressures, repeat process a couple more times. Tedious, but better than tyre failure at high speed.
get a Fluke 561 infrared thermometer or similar, go out on cold tyres, normal pressures, do three laps, first gentle, build up, third lap get some heat in, push to get the car onto the outside of the tyre.Use the thermometer and take the temp of the tyres on the inside, middle and outside, write them down, also take the temp of the track, this way you get a record of track temp and what is best for the tyre for the track conditions.
If the middle is hotter than the inside and outside, remove air, if colder, add air.
Do another 3 to 5 laps, repeat the process.
IF you break for lunch and all goes cold, start again, if the track temp stays the same, you already know what the pressures should be, you recorded them, go out, do 3 laps, take pressure out, n gfo out and do your 5 laps, repeat.
Acceptable temp difference across the face of the tyre is around 10 degrees.
If the outside is always colder than the middle and inside, you are not
hard enough.Alternatively, get them filled with Nitrogen.
Tyres got up to 31 degrees c on another decent run out, road bone dry, a little more grip thankfully but still far too much nanny intervention for my liking. I tried what Shmee suggested but could not switch off ESC for some reason as the car would not let me. Any ideas chaps? I have checked the manual and could not find anything to help.
Edited by TrackTwit on Wednesday 30th December 14:29
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