12c - First Thoughts
Discussion
cwin said:
squirejo said:
So has done your film? Any london based recommendations?
It's the detailing I had done not the film fitted, Lancs based as well, sorry.There is definitely a move to McLaren product happening whether it be 12C, 650S or 570S, its becoming more and more evident.
McLaren Brand is increasing all the time and the relatively low volume of early cars can only be good in the future supply and demand equation, not that I can ever see me selling mine
McLaren Brand is increasing all the time and the relatively low volume of early cars can only be good in the future supply and demand equation, not that I can ever see me selling mine
RamboLambo said:
There is definitely a move to McLaren product happening whether it be 12C, 650S or 570S, its becoming more and more evident.
McLaren Brand is increasing all the time and the relatively low volume of early cars can only be good in the future supply and demand equation, not that I can ever see me selling mine
That is bound to happen over time as more and more experience the brand and decide to 'have a go'. The problem is that many people have been enticed into the brand because of 'value'. At a certain price point these cars are unbeatable value and make great sense, whatever you think of the car.McLaren Brand is increasing all the time and the relatively low volume of early cars can only be good in the future supply and demand equation, not that I can ever see me selling mine
However, these are not people who will translate easily into full-price paying new car buyers at something beginning with a '2' which is where the brand comes unstuck. They are 'customers for hire', some will stick many will tick the box and move on.
You keep talking about a bounce in 650 and I do not see it for a loooong time. There has been relatively poor demand for that car, in fact less than for the 12C which had the benefit of being something completely new to the market, plus 650 only had a one year run before the next cars (675 and 540/570) were announced so if in its short time it could not fill production that does not bode well at all . If they are flooding the market they are not 'making way' for the 570 and 675, they have production slots without customers, and worse, without DEALERS who will take the cars into stock (presumably they are no doubt already rammed).
This must be having a deeply traumatic effect on dealers who are no doubt carrying a lot of stock at fairly indefensible stand-in values.
The only way to make some sort of sense of McLaren ownership is to get in low or buy a low production run car (P1 or 'maybe' 675). There is a price at which these cars look great value and therefore become easier to move along after you have had your fun without it becoming a 'black hole' for your wallet. My guess is £150k and below and your experience should be ok (after all, you would normally expect around £5-£10k depreciation pa for cars with this kind of performance and 'exoticness' with any other brand - at least until the market went a bit mad over the last 2 years).
You can buy quite a new car for £150k, keep it for 3-4 years and it should still be worth £110k even with a bit of mileage on IMO.
I always thought the 650 was a mistake and I think the market agrees. The issue is not whether it is a better car than the 12C (itself a debatable point as far as I am concerned because I don't like the look of it) but simply that IMV it should have been a 675 version of the 12C giving the 12C a proper production life instead of baling out halfway through with McLaren PR saying 'the 650 is the car we wanted to build all along'. The 12C is a car that so clearly reflects McLaren values that that comment about the 650 always sounded hollow and an attempt to appease the press and get them to say that the new car was better than the (by that time) ageing 458. Which of course they didn't. So, it didn't work for the press, it certainly didn't work for existing 12C owners and I would argue it didn't work for early 650 buyers either. They may love their cars but if McLaren themselves are dumping new and nearly new product it isn't worth very much is it?
A 2012 12C with decent spec and colour and all the updates done must surely be a good buy. After that, a 675 could go well because it sounds like an awesome car and purportedly has limited production,
The 650 was not replaced by the 675LT, same as a 991 GT3 does not replace a 991 Carrera.
They are aimed at different owners/needs.
As much as I love the 675LT it would not suit my Jekyll & Hyde GT roadster needs even if I did compromise on the roof of bit and could get one!
You are right many will "have a punt" on a 12C because of its value for money, I suspect many will stay afterwards as well. IME these cars are ALL great value for money, what else will get you 650 performance for just over £200k new or similar performance from the 12C from £130k used.
I'm not convinced the 650's or 12C will hold value as well as some others in that market but I don't care TBH.
They aren't flooding the dealers with 650 stock, when I was looking a couple of months ago there were 3 used spiders for sale today there are 6, 3 off which are factory demos. The prices of ALL of these are within £18k of what I paid for a new, built to my spec order. Shmee's "high" mileage Mantis green car has just gone up for sale (not on trader yet) at £179K. So he has done 12.5k in less than a year at ~£30K drop in value, I'd be more than happy with that
I do agree they could have "explained" the 650 better. That said you have to remember they only have one engine and 1.5 tub designs to work with. Its inevitable there are going to be a lot of variations on a similar theme.
BTW no idea where this myth of no more 650 orders is coming from? Solihull are still taking orders on them.
They are aimed at different owners/needs.
As much as I love the 675LT it would not suit my Jekyll & Hyde GT roadster needs even if I did compromise on the roof of bit and could get one!
You are right many will "have a punt" on a 12C because of its value for money, I suspect many will stay afterwards as well. IME these cars are ALL great value for money, what else will get you 650 performance for just over £200k new or similar performance from the 12C from £130k used.
I'm not convinced the 650's or 12C will hold value as well as some others in that market but I don't care TBH.
They aren't flooding the dealers with 650 stock, when I was looking a couple of months ago there were 3 used spiders for sale today there are 6, 3 off which are factory demos. The prices of ALL of these are within £18k of what I paid for a new, built to my spec order. Shmee's "high" mileage Mantis green car has just gone up for sale (not on trader yet) at £179K. So he has done 12.5k in less than a year at ~£30K drop in value, I'd be more than happy with that
I do agree they could have "explained" the 650 better. That said you have to remember they only have one engine and 1.5 tub designs to work with. Its inevitable there are going to be a lot of variations on a similar theme.
BTW no idea where this myth of no more 650 orders is coming from? Solihull are still taking orders on them.
isaldiri said:
mikey k said:
As much as I love the 675LT it would not suit my Jekyll & Hyde GT roadster needs even if I did compromise on the roof of bit and could get one!
.
Ah but you could have waited a bit more and got a 675 spider.
I couldn't wait for a 570S spider
Besides I'm VERY happy with the deal on my 650 and whatever it is called it would cost me another £50k
Not seen a lot of 650s cars on the market in the last 6 months with the exception of maybe 9 tops now as we come to the end of production and the summer season so to be expected IMHO.
Going forward those that have bought in will struggle to find a better replacement without spending circa £100k to upgrade and even then that's a big question mark.
With 675LT retailing at List and circa £290k with options and not in spider form I would say the 650S spider has created a nice little niche for itself at the £170 - £190k mark used car wise for some time to come and will always be propped up by the more abundant 12C derivative.
I certainly can live with £10k a year depreciation on a supercar and longer term I can only see this reducing
Going forward those that have bought in will struggle to find a better replacement without spending circa £100k to upgrade and even then that's a big question mark.
With 675LT retailing at List and circa £290k with options and not in spider form I would say the 650S spider has created a nice little niche for itself at the £170 - £190k mark used car wise for some time to come and will always be propped up by the more abundant 12C derivative.
I certainly can live with £10k a year depreciation on a supercar and longer term I can only see this reducing
mikey k said:
. Shmee's "high" mileage Mantis green car has just gone up for sale (not on trader yet) at £179K. So he has done 12.5k in less than a year at ~£30K drop in value, I'd be more than happy with that
.
Doesn't happen with Ferrari......
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