Dare I ask about the D word.......depreciation......

Dare I ask about the D word.......depreciation......

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Discussion

turboman786

Original Poster:

1,053 posts

186 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
I currently own an r8 v10 which is the epitome of my car ownership career to date.......I always thought I'd get a 458 one day and that would be it......but then I came across the maclaren 12c

They look quite ''affordable' relative to a 458, and in my mind I am trying to gauge how much one can expect to lose on such a car over say a years ownership

I'd (in theory....not quite the financially in reality) would buy from a maclaren dealer.....cheapest on AT is on at £125k......say I did 7k miles I a year........could I hope to get away with £10k depreciation or am I being naive here.?.....

I've not been 'watching the maclaren market for any real length of time so I don't have the. Benefit of spotting market trends but I'm sure the good folk here can enlighten me!

Thank you!

Wilmslowboy

4,189 posts

205 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
In a normal mkt - you would lose £10k selling straight back to the dealer (this would be thier margin, one extra owner , prep etc) add in it being another 12 months older (and the miles) and this would probably extend to closer to £20k....this could be reduced if you could sell privately.

Issue is we haven't had a normal mkt for some years....more recently cars of this price and ilk have held onto their values (or even gone up) I'm not sure you could bank on this happening going forward.


What mixes up the 12c market even more is the impact of the new 'smaller cars' which could cause the values of 12c to go either way.


TISPKJ

3,648 posts

206 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Prices have been steady around this level for best part of a year or so now.
A few non McLaren dealer cars went through last winter around the 117 level.
I ran a 100k wanted add for best part of 6 months during that period and got offered one car at 108 that had sold 2 weeks before at 118 and the fella didn't like it.
I got offers another high mile car which I recon I could have got for 100.
I ended up buying an approved car for full up money.

I think your fairly safe to say you would virtually get your money back, as in asking price v asking price a year down the road, however if I sold mine even for what I paid I would have to sell through McL at a guess of 5k SOR fee, plus 3.5k warranty so that's a fair chunk of your 10k gone if not all.
I'm told a service is 1.5k but when due my warranty will also be up for renewal as said at 3.5k if I choose to take out.
Some of the cheaper cars available didn't have carbon interior which appears to be a must.
I've only had mine 2 months now but they really are something special.

To summarise you won't loose an awful lot on your asking price but the other bits soon add up.
Also none of us know what if any effect the new 540/570 model will have on the 12c, my gut feeling is that most will want a good low mile full fat 620 bhp12c over the 1.3 popular smile

Edited by TISPKJ on Wednesday 2nd September 08:06

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Worse case scenario is to budget for £20k ( £10k dealer margin and £10k depreciation/maintenance ). If its half of that at a total of £10k you should be delighted for what is a true supercar. ( that's just over a £1.50 a mile )

Prices have been very stable after the initial big hit so buying in recently has been a fairly safe bet. With 570S coupe entering the market with a bang personally I think the 12 C spider version is the better bet short term if you can extend your budget as this is not currently available on the new car therefore creating its own niche market.
( 80% sales of 650s are spider for obvious reasons, its 2 cars in one )

Far better value than a 458 and a much better driving car in spider form because of the carbon tub rigidity

davek_964

8,796 posts

174 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
TISPKJ said:
Some of the cheaper cars available didn't have carbon interior which appears to be a must.

Edited by TISPKJ on Wednesday 2nd September 08:06
I'm one of the few people who really doesn't like carbon, so I'd much prefer a non-carbon one if I decide to go this route.
I assumed that if I did buy one - even if I did limited mileage - I would take a £20k hit in a year, simply because it seems they are very hard to buy privately. So you are paying dealer mark up when you buy and losing it when you sell.
I've delayed my decision until Spring next year, but my current feeling is I will probably stick with what I have (or upgrade to something different!)

TISPKJ

3,648 posts

206 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
davek_964 said:
TISPKJ said:
Some of the cheaper cars available didn't have carbon interior which appears to be a must.

Edited by TISPKJ on Wednesday 2nd September 08:06
I'm one of the few people who really doesn't like carbon, so I'd much prefer a non-carbon one if I decide to go this route.
I assumed that if I did buy one - even if I did limited mileage - I would take a £20k hit in a year, simply because it seems they are very hard to buy privately. So you are paying dealer mark up when you buy and losing it when you sell.
I've delayed my decision until Spring next year, but my current feeling is I will probably stick with what I have (or upgrade to something different!)
As always with these things some like some dont, I just found that the cars without tended to hang around a while, that may well have been time of year or equally exterior colour or miles, who knows.
I would like to think and hope that 20k would be an absolute worse case scenario, but as said above the Mclaren warranty is 3.5k alone

mb1

579 posts

255 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Why not keep it for longer than a year ? The dealer margin both ways will start to be less of an issue over 3 years for example.
Also, if you negotiate well, you can eat into the margins and 20k could easily become 10k. Low volume, little number of customers mean better bargaining power... Especially if you go for a car without carbon interior.

But, honestly, why would you want to sell it ever anyway, there are very few cars that will measure up to the SuperSport Series smile

silver-bullet

78 posts

206 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
I nearly got a 12c spider last month but decided it wasn't worth getting a spider at the end of summer.

It's difficult to call prices but one would imagine that normal rules will apply, and the inevitable drop on the 650S spider will have a knock-on effect on the 12C. As against that, there are not that many cars around; but then again, not many seem to be selling either.

CTE

1,488 posts

239 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
You also need to factor in that the 12C is far prettier from the front than the 650S...which is why I bought a 12C and not a 650S. I also bought a coupe as opposed to the spider for the same reason...
Also consider that the 12C is from my experience better car by some margin than a 458, which in time people will realise. The 458 makes a nice noise, but that`s about it. I even preferred my Evora to a 458! Maybe that`s just me?
In summary I think the future looks good for the 12C, at least given the relative limited supply and when it becomes more widely known just how good the car is, especially when compared to its rivals. Yes some of the early cars had niggles which gave negative press, but I guess most have been upgraded/sorted by now?

PHOENIXUK

2,198 posts

200 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
CTE said:
You also need to factor in that the 12C is far prettier from the front than the 650S...which is why I bought a 12C and not a 650S. I also bought a coupe as opposed to the spider for the same reason...
Also consider that the 12C is from my experience better car by some margin than a 458, which in time people will realise. The 458 makes a nice noise, but that`s about it. I even preferred my Evora to a 458! Maybe that`s just me?
In summary I think the future looks good for the 12C, at least given the relative limited supply and when it becomes more widely known just how good the car is, especially when compared to its rivals. Yes some of the early cars had niggles which gave negative press, but I guess most have been upgraded/sorted by now?
After reading your post was quite surprised at the one car in your fantasy garage, one day eh Rodney...smile

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
CTE said:
You also need to factor in that the 12C is far prettier from the front than the 650S...which is why I bought a 12C and not a 650S. I also bought a coupe as opposed to the spider for the same reason...
Also consider that the 12C is from my experience better car by some margin than a 458, which in time people will realise. The 458 makes a nice noise, but that`s about it. I even preferred my Evora to a 458! Maybe that`s just me?
In summary I think the future looks good for the 12C, at least given the relative limited supply and when it becomes more widely known just how good the car is, especially when compared to its rivals. Yes some of the early cars had niggles which gave negative press, but I guess most have been upgraded/sorted by now?
Looks are subjective and personally I much prefer the 650S with the P1 style front whereas the 12C front to me always looked far too plain for a supercar.

I guess looks / beauty are in the eye of the beholder but no one can argue that the 650S isn't a massive improvement emotionally over the 12C, far better feel and sound to the car and with the added carbon ceramic brakes as standard spec and far fewer in numbers will always sit at least £20k above 12C IMHO.
With P14 likely to be another step up and a lot more money both 12C/650S seem well placed and valued in the current market.

You pays your money and you make choice but either way your a winner



flemke

22,864 posts

236 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
540 and 570 on their way....

scratchchin

mb1

579 posts

255 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
flemke said:
540 and 570 on their way....

scratchchin
And you can check here how the 12C, and obviously the 650S, smoke both of them

I know which one I would rather drive between a simple sport and a super sport spin

teacher

davek_964

8,796 posts

174 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
mb1 said:
flemke said:
540 and 570 on their way....

scratchchin
And you can check here how the 12C, and obviously the 650S, smoke both of them

I know which one I would rather drive between a simple sport and a super sport spin

teacher
True, however isn't the cost of a new 540 about the same as an early 12C? Admittedly you've then got options on top, but I'm guessing a lot of people will like the idea of new vs old for the same money. And let's face it, a 500+bhp car is still more than adequate for UK roads.

CTE

1,488 posts

239 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
I`d be interested to drive a 650S just to se what the difference really is (probably a dealers car next year)...from comments made on hear, not a lot, certainly on the road, maybe a bit on the track, or that`s what I`d like to believe (although from my point of view I still do not like the front).

I had a similar view with my 2011 Evora, again from comments made on the forum. Now owning and driving the 2013 car with about 150 small improvments, its night and day better.

Have to say it is hard to see how the 650S is night and day better than the 12C, but if it is then it must be some machine, but then we are all being dragged along now to think the 675LT is the must have...where does it all stop?

Agreed, I can understand why they have done the 540 and 570 but I will not be trading down. As said before, if anything they strengthen the 12C value.

mb1

579 posts

255 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
davek_964 said:
True, however isn't the cost of a new 540 about the same as an early 12C? Admittedly you've then got options on top, but I'm guessing a lot of people will like the idea of new vs old for the same money. And let's face it, a 500+bhp car is still more than adequate for UK roads.
True, 500+bhp is ample enough but then why buy a supercar then ?

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
CTE said:
I`d be interested to drive a 650S just to se what the difference really is (probably a dealers car next year)...from comments made on hear, not a lot, certainly on the road, maybe a bit on the track, or that`s what I`d like to believe (although from my point of view I still do not like the front).

I had a similar view with my 2011 Evora, again from comments made on the forum. Now owning and driving the 2013 car with about 150 small improvments, its night and day better.

Have to say it is hard to see how the 650S is night and day better than the 12C, but if it is then it must be some machine, but then we are all being dragged along now to think the 675LT is the must have...where does it all stop?

Agreed, I can understand why they have done the 540 and 570 but I will not be trading down. As said before, if anything they strengthen the 12C value.
For me there on a back to back test drive there certainly was an immediate and noticeable difference between 12C and 650S on the road.
The increase torque is immense not that it particularly needs extra power but it was more the sound and feel improvements which add to the emotion which again was a very small criticism I had of the 12C probably as I was comparing it with my LP570-4 Performante at the time.
650S is probably somewhere in between the 2 cars but certainly not lacking in the sound stakes.

I agree with you that the addition of 540/570S only improves the McLaren brand image, awareness and demand and that 12C/650S residuals will actually strengthen off the back of it.

Now is a good time to buy into the McLaren brand IMHO and payback will be 5+ years down the line

davek_964

8,796 posts

174 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
mb1 said:
davek_964 said:
True, however isn't the cost of a new 540 about the same as an early 12C? Admittedly you've then got options on top, but I'm guessing a lot of people will like the idea of new vs old for the same money. And let's face it, a 500+bhp car is still more than adequate for UK roads.
True, 500+bhp is ample enough but then why buy a supercar then ?
People buy cars for different reasons. I realise I'm in the minority, but the power of the 12C is actually a negative to me. My (mapped) 996 turbo was fun in a straight line on the occasions I could floor it - but they were very rare, due to a combination of traffic and the fact that you need to have driven 10 miles before the car is warm enough anyway. That was on a car making a bit under 500bhp and with 4wd. I've not decided yet whether to go the McLaren route, but having over 100bhp more than my turbo had, and all fed through the rear wheels might make it better for top trumps but I'm not sure it's a positive for me. There are other reasons I'm tempted by them, but the power isn't one.

mb1

579 posts

255 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
davek_964 said:
People buy cars for different reasons. I realise I'm in the minority, but the power of the 12C is actually a negative to me. My (mapped) 996 turbo was fun in a straight line on the occasions I could floor it - but they were very rare, due to a combination of traffic and the fact that you need to have driven 10 miles before the car is warm enough anyway. That was on a car making a bit under 500bhp and with 4wd. I've not decided yet whether to go the McLaren route, but having over 100bhp more than my turbo had, and all fed through the rear wheels might make it better for top trumps but I'm not sure it's a positive for me. There are other reasons I'm tempted by them, but the power isn't one.
I totally agree that we all have our own motivation.

My V12 Vantage was a total handful with 50bhp less... But loads of fun.
Have a test drive and you might be surprised as to how docile the 12C can be. And how immensely quick it can become when required.

sealtt

3,091 posts

157 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Always prepare for worst case scenario when it comes to dealer spreads.

I still somehow always underestimate these.