Dare I ask about the D word.......depreciation......
Discussion
TP321 said:
of course they will start discounting it - they have done that with all their cars, except P1 and 675lt. Although with the 675lt, having promised to limit production to 500 units, are now taking orders for the Spider version.
McLaren will always bring out improved versions of its existing models - that's why buying new is such a huge gamble. Evidence is the 3.5 year old 12C which cost £185k new and it now offered at £104k with 24k miles. No other exclusive supercar drops this much.
We all care about depreciation - no one wants to be taken for a mug.
You're a tad anti McLaren aren't you?McLaren will always bring out improved versions of its existing models - that's why buying new is such a huge gamble. Evidence is the 3.5 year old 12C which cost £185k new and it now offered at £104k with 24k miles. No other exclusive supercar drops this much.
We all care about depreciation - no one wants to be taken for a mug.
Of course the brand is not as strong as Ferrari - only an absolute idiot would expect it to be in such a short period. But - despite all the comments on depreciation, cost of servicing etc - the general view still seems to be that they are fabulous cars. And more importantly, just as good - if not better - than the equivalent Ferrari. If that's true, then they are heading in the right direction. And more affordable cars to address a greater market is an essential step in that journey.
For owners or potential buyers, the lack of brand strength does lead to a probability of higher depreciation and that will put some people off - maybe including me, maybe not. But that should not have been hard for McLaren to predict, and I'm sure they did.
Personally, I think they're well on their way and I hope they enjoy continued success and gain the stronger brand recognition they deserve. Competition in the market is never a bad thing.
Im a serial Ferrari owner and diehard fan but at the end of the day regardless of new prices/future values the McLaren 650S spider was simply the better car IMHO than the 458 spider.
McLaren are on the way up as a rapidly growing brand so awareness of the product and future demand will only increase and get better.
Low production volumes of early models will mean longer term the values will become stronger so the view I took was not to enter and exit the brand over a short period or you will expect to lose a big chunk of money, but spread over 5+ years I can forsee the costs being dramatically reduced and longer term I can see Ferrari limited edition up terms for what will be rare cars.
I just love the whole exclusivity and mystery of the McLaren brand and I get far more admiration and attention in the car than my Ferrari and Lamborghini even.
The younger generations don't have the same loyalty / affection for the Ferrari brand as some of us old farts and they will be the ones with the new money in years to come
McLaren are on the way up as a rapidly growing brand so awareness of the product and future demand will only increase and get better.
Low production volumes of early models will mean longer term the values will become stronger so the view I took was not to enter and exit the brand over a short period or you will expect to lose a big chunk of money, but spread over 5+ years I can forsee the costs being dramatically reduced and longer term I can see Ferrari limited edition up terms for what will be rare cars.
I just love the whole exclusivity and mystery of the McLaren brand and I get far more admiration and attention in the car than my Ferrari and Lamborghini even.
The younger generations don't have the same loyalty / affection for the Ferrari brand as some of us old farts and they will be the ones with the new money in years to come
davek_964 said:
You're a tad anti McLaren aren't you?
Of course the brand is not as strong as Ferrari - only an absolute idiot would expect it to be in such a short period. But - despite all the comments on depreciation, cost of servicing etc - the general view still seems to be that they are fabulous cars. And more importantly, just as good - if not better - than the equivalent Ferrari. If that's true, then they are heading in the right direction. And more affordable cars to address a greater market is an essential step in that journey.
For owners or potential buyers, the lack of brand strength does lead to a probability of higher depreciation and that will put some people off - maybe including me, maybe not. But that should not have been hard for McLaren to predict, and I'm sure they did.
Personally, I think they're well on their way and I hope they enjoy continued success and gain the stronger brand recognition they deserve. Competition in the market is never a bad thing.
Not at all. The car is good but I wouldn't fancy buying one new at list price....second hand they make sense. But how can a company thrive when they don't look after their new car sales customers?Of course the brand is not as strong as Ferrari - only an absolute idiot would expect it to be in such a short period. But - despite all the comments on depreciation, cost of servicing etc - the general view still seems to be that they are fabulous cars. And more importantly, just as good - if not better - than the equivalent Ferrari. If that's true, then they are heading in the right direction. And more affordable cars to address a greater market is an essential step in that journey.
For owners or potential buyers, the lack of brand strength does lead to a probability of higher depreciation and that will put some people off - maybe including me, maybe not. But that should not have been hard for McLaren to predict, and I'm sure they did.
Personally, I think they're well on their way and I hope they enjoy continued success and gain the stronger brand recognition they deserve. Competition in the market is never a bad thing.
Calculator said:
Retained 56% of list price after 3.5yrs and 'above average' miles? Sure, the absolute is a big number but proportionally it seems pretty good to me.
I don't think many people would of paid full list so compared with most undiscounted Ferrari's the percentage actually seems good to meRamboLambo said:
I don't think many people would of paid full list so compared with most undiscounted Ferrari's the percentage actually seems good to me
But that's the point Rambo - if the early adopters are the only ones paying list, they won't be very happy and, long term, will not stay loyal to brand or will not buy new again. However you look at it, it's not a good business model to build long term brand loyalty.
garyhun said:
RamboLambo said:
I don't think many people would of paid full list so compared with most undiscounted Ferrari's the percentage actually seems good to me
But that's the point Rambo - if the early adopters are the only ones paying list, they won't be very happy and, long term, will not stay loyal to brand or will not buy new again. However you look at it, it's not a good business model to build long term brand loyalty.
flemke said:
A car (and every other) manufacturer has got to make enough money to keep going. The hardest period is normally in the first few years. We customers, in our turn, need to be sufficiently tolerant of what the new manufacturer does to enable it to get on its feet and sustain itself. That is the price that we pay for things that are new and different. Otherwise we'll be stuck with the same-old same-old, offered by established manufacturers that will take us for granted and offer us rubbish.
The issue is that if the level of discounting is large enough, or too soon after introduction into the market, it will put too many people off buying in the first place so defeating the object.Why buy a new McLaren when you can park your money elsewhere until the discounting starts?
It's a fine balancing act.
Calculator said:
Retained 56% of list price after 3.5yrs and 'above average' miles? Sure, the absolute is a big number but proportionally it seems pretty good to me.
Really?? Give me an example with Lamborghini if we all agree that Ferrari are in a league of their own with regards to depreciation. How about the big V12 Aventador - what's that retaining % after 3 years.....?flemke said:
A car (and every other) manufacturer has got to make enough money to keep going. The hardest period is normally in the first few years. We customers, in our turn, need to be sufficiently tolerant of what the new manufacturer does to enable it to get on its feet and sustain itself. That is the price that we pay for things that are new and different. Otherwise we'll be stuck with the same-old same-old, offered by established manufacturers that will take us for granted and offer us rubbish.
I agree with your empathy with the manufacturer, but an early adopter is the holy cow - to be worshiped not milked.breadvan said:
flemke said:
A car (and every other) manufacturer has got to make enough money to keep going. The hardest period is normally in the first few years. We customers, in our turn, need to be sufficiently tolerant of what the new manufacturer does to enable it to get on its feet and sustain itself. That is the price that we pay for things that are new and different. Otherwise we'll be stuck with the same-old same-old, offered by established manufacturers that will take us for granted and offer us rubbish.
I agree with your empathy with the manufacturer, but an early adopter is the holy cow - to be worshiped not milked.McLaren, Ferrari, Lambo, etc sell a meaningful % of their overall production to people who don't know much about driving or appreciate the quality of what they have bought, but whose primary objective is showing off. I wouldn't say that they would be indifferent to depreciation and other costs, but they do derive substantial utility from merely getting something before other people do.
flemke said:
breadvan said:
flemke said:
A car (and every other) manufacturer has got to make enough money to keep going. The hardest period is normally in the first few years. We customers, in our turn, need to be sufficiently tolerant of what the new manufacturer does to enable it to get on its feet and sustain itself. That is the price that we pay for things that are new and different. Otherwise we'll be stuck with the same-old same-old, offered by established manufacturers that will take us for granted and offer us rubbish.
I agree with your empathy with the manufacturer, but an early adopter is the holy cow - to be worshiped not milked.McLaren, Ferrari, Lambo, etc sell a meaningful % of their overall production to people who don't know much about driving or appreciate the quality of what they have bought, but whose primary objective is showing off. I wouldn't say that they would be indifferent to depreciation and other costs, but they do derive substantial utility from merely getting something before other people do.
breadvan said:
flemke said:
breadvan said:
flemke said:
A car (and every other) manufacturer has got to make enough money to keep going. The hardest period is normally in the first few years. We customers, in our turn, need to be sufficiently tolerant of what the new manufacturer does to enable it to get on its feet and sustain itself. That is the price that we pay for things that are new and different. Otherwise we'll be stuck with the same-old same-old, offered by established manufacturers that will take us for granted and offer us rubbish.
I agree with your empathy with the manufacturer, but an early adopter is the holy cow - to be worshiped not milked.McLaren, Ferrari, Lambo, etc sell a meaningful % of their overall production to people who don't know much about driving or appreciate the quality of what they have bought, but whose primary objective is showing off. I wouldn't say that they would be indifferent to depreciation and other costs, but they do derive substantial utility from merely getting something before other people do.
Early adopter kudos would only work for a brand that was easily recognised. In this case Ferrari and most of the early adopters would be their 'loyal' customers who would get rid of the car quite early on unless it was a very limited model. Everyone else who is coming in new would only be picking up breadcrumbs once the first lot of customers are satisfied. As for Mclaren, they had a very good chance to get things right as most of their early adopters were/are enthusiasts who know about the Mclaren brand which I believe most people outside of F1 wouldn't know about. However, the unfortunate result of them releasing a vehicle which was perceived to be unready still lives with them to this day. It will be a slow process of rebuilding their image of exclusivity with reliability. Actually, I wouldn't go on too much about the everyday usability of Mclarens as it doesn't appear too popular amongst 'supercar' owners. Just look at the NSX!
Based on current 12C spider valuations I predict my 650S spider will be worth circa > 70% retained value of transaction price in 3 years time.
If the market sees 650S more favourably than 12C or the upturn in Lmaborghini and Ferrari values extend further to McLaren who knows it could easily be 80 or 90%.
TBH I reckon that's pretty damn good not that I'm ever going to find anything better to replace it with or want to
If the market sees 650S more favourably than 12C or the upturn in Lmaborghini and Ferrari values extend further to McLaren who knows it could easily be 80 or 90%.
TBH I reckon that's pretty damn good not that I'm ever going to find anything better to replace it with or want to
kryten22uk said:
Surely the replacement for the 650S in 3 years time (or whenever) will be 'better'?
I'm sure the P14 will but suggestions are it may go up a league to challenge the likes of the aventador which TBH is too big and heavy for me. If that is the case it could easily be a £300k car and effectively twice the price which I would find difficult to justify even if it did appeal.I think the 650S will find its own very desirable niche in the market in years to come simply because it was the ultimate P13 car and few in numbers
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