Discussion
CS sounds awesome but F1 Gear change and performance are not really there by modern standards
Scuderia sounds awesome, F1 gear change is the best you can get in a single cutch car and suits the track feel and performance is a big step up on CS and good enough for british roads
Perfomante sounds bloody awesome with 2nd gear downshifts totally unreal. Performance and the 4 x 4 handling is great but a little agricultural in todays climate
650S sounds bloody marvellous for a turbo charge car although DIFFERENT to a normally aspirated vehicle. With sports exhaust it pops and burbles far more than 12C and is really loud above 6,000 rpm.
The performance, suspension and handling is simply the best out there at the moment.
So big is the gap over 458 the 488 seriously needs to do the business but even being the latest incarnation from Ferrari I'm not convinced it will have it all its own way or be a significant improvement over 650S
Scuderia sounds awesome, F1 gear change is the best you can get in a single cutch car and suits the track feel and performance is a big step up on CS and good enough for british roads
Perfomante sounds bloody awesome with 2nd gear downshifts totally unreal. Performance and the 4 x 4 handling is great but a little agricultural in todays climate
650S sounds bloody marvellous for a turbo charge car although DIFFERENT to a normally aspirated vehicle. With sports exhaust it pops and burbles far more than 12C and is really loud above 6,000 rpm.
The performance, suspension and handling is simply the best out there at the moment.
So big is the gap over 458 the 488 seriously needs to do the business but even being the latest incarnation from Ferrari I'm not convinced it will have it all its own way or be a significant improvement over 650S
Dblue said:
Interesting stuff Mark and certainly most Ferraris sound very good. Personally I found the Scuderia's sound a little bit of a blare rather than very musical and rather less wonderful than the Challenge Stradale , my own personal all time favourite.
Flat plane crank V8s don't lend themselves to being the very best Iwould say, V10s and V12s have inherent advantages.
Turbocharged flat plane V8s never going to be great. See if the 488 disproves that
Possibly am tone deaf... but i genuinely do not get the criticism about the mclaren's sound from Ferrari v8 owners I have to admit. The mclaren makes a lot of noise but it's not particularly nice nor is it particularly bad. The same applies to the 430/458 imo. CS apart, none of the recent v8 Ferraris have sounded anything special at all. The speciale i distinctly thought sounded very blaring and actually quite unpleasant at high revs. The humble CSL is a far better sounding car than either i reckon.....Flat plane crank V8s don't lend themselves to being the very best Iwould say, V10s and V12s have inherent advantages.
Turbocharged flat plane V8s never going to be great. See if the 488 disproves that
spot on sir! Lol...I've owned a number of these cars and also driven with/against almost all of them for thousands of miles across Europe and Scotland on many occasions. I haven't driven a 650 (but own a 12C). I can't imagine 650 is materially faster, like a whole other level, compared to a 12C with no weight advantage and only 25hp extra.
458 and Speciale are not exactly miles apart either although Speciale does have an extra 40hp or so and less weight.
12C, F12 and Speciale are very closely matched in terms of real world straight line performance (typically about 60mph to 130mph). Speciale quicker over ground than F12 because of performance in the bends. 12C and Speciale are very closely matched over ground, depending on the tyres on the 12C. With P Zeros, the 12C can't quite match.
The turbo engined McLarens have amazing pace - more than the F12 I reckon, at road speeds. Obviously that is the advantage of the turbo, the disadvantage is the delivery being not as nice (depending on your viewpoint).
Apparently track tends to favour Speciale over 650, which I could believe. I have driven Speciale on track (but not against any McLarens) and it is an amazing experience.
Oh, and needn't worry about the Mac sound, my spider with sports exhaust sounds great. And I have owned a CS and currently also own a Speciale so I'm comparing to at least half-decent cars. The F12 has an epic sound, easily better than Speciale and McLaren.
675 will be a noticeable step ahead of them all I reckon (although road driving tends to even cars out a bit and more power does not always mean more pace). As always, the car can make a bit of difference, but the driver can make all the difference!
458 and Speciale are not exactly miles apart either although Speciale does have an extra 40hp or so and less weight.
12C, F12 and Speciale are very closely matched in terms of real world straight line performance (typically about 60mph to 130mph). Speciale quicker over ground than F12 because of performance in the bends. 12C and Speciale are very closely matched over ground, depending on the tyres on the 12C. With P Zeros, the 12C can't quite match.
The turbo engined McLarens have amazing pace - more than the F12 I reckon, at road speeds. Obviously that is the advantage of the turbo, the disadvantage is the delivery being not as nice (depending on your viewpoint).
Apparently track tends to favour Speciale over 650, which I could believe. I have driven Speciale on track (but not against any McLarens) and it is an amazing experience.
Oh, and needn't worry about the Mac sound, my spider with sports exhaust sounds great. And I have owned a CS and currently also own a Speciale so I'm comparing to at least half-decent cars. The F12 has an epic sound, easily better than Speciale and McLaren.
675 will be a noticeable step ahead of them all I reckon (although road driving tends to even cars out a bit and more power does not always mean more pace). As always, the car can make a bit of difference, but the driver can make all the difference!
Edited by LukeyLikey on Thursday 8th October 08:14
to be fair this 458 with sport exhaust that I tested sounded actually pretty good. not as good as the Kriesegg exhausts but not bad.
However we all agree the f12 is on another level.
https://youtu.be/4kjM7KmMKv4
However we all agree the f12 is on another level.
https://youtu.be/4kjM7KmMKv4
Yes we were talking about the V8 so don't know why anyone would change the subject. As I recall someone said it sounded like 2 blankets in a tumble dryer which reminds me, I must record the sound of my 650 with a sports exhaust and the back window down so anyone can listen to that sound, the sound is amazing and very loud however, I do like the term of phrase that was used as it is quite amusing, so 10 out of 10 for that. The other point worth making is that the Ferrari does make enough sound to make you turn round only to be disappointed to see a car that sounds like it's coming past at 140mph is actually coming past at legal speeds ie 30mph in a 30mph zone, but then I guess we have different views and it is quite obvious that the Scud owner who also happens to have one of the noisiest bikes every made is into hearing what he is driving/riding but also wants everyone else to hear it, I think it's called attention seeking?
greenbandit641 said:
Yes we were talking about the V8 so don't know why anyone would change the subject. As I recall someone said it sounded like 2 blankets in a tumble dryer which reminds me, I must record the sound of my 650 with a sports exhaust and the back window down so anyone can listen to that sound, the sound is amazing and very loud however, I do like the term of phrase that was used as it is quite amusing, so 10 out of 10 for that. The other point worth making is that the Ferrari does make enough sound to make you turn round only to be disappointed to see a car that sounds like it's coming past at 140mph is actually coming past at legal speeds ie 30mph in a 30mph zone, but then I guess we have different views and it is quite obvious that the Scud owner who also happens to have one of the noisiest bikes every made is into hearing what he is driving/riding but also wants everyone else to hear it, I think it's called attention seeking?
Yes the tumble dryer comment was tounge in cheek, I also have a sports exhaust and in track mode with the back window down the 650S does make a decent noise, but still not a match for that Ferrari roar or Lambo howl imho.I had a bloke walk up tp me a while back and say "If only you could bottle that sound eh?" So somebody likes it!
greenbandit641 said:
Yes we were talking about the V8 so don't know why anyone would change the subject. As I recall someone said it sounded like 2 blankets in a tumble dryer which reminds me, I must record the sound of my 650 with a sports exhaust and the back window down so anyone can listen to that sound, the sound is amazing and very loud however, I do like the term of phrase that was used as it is quite amusing, so 10 out of 10 for that. The other point worth making is that the Ferrari does make enough sound to make you turn round only to be disappointed to see a car that sounds like it's coming past at 140mph is actually coming past at legal speeds ie 30mph in a 30mph zone, but then I guess we have different views and it is quite obvious that the Scud owner who also happens to have one of the noisiest bikes every made is into hearing what he is driving/riding but also wants everyone else to hear it, I think it's called attention seeking?
Personally speaking I crave the noise made by a high performance V8, V10 or V12. I have a sports exhaust on mine because it is a weekend car and I want to enjoy it to the full - I want to hear the symphony all the time. I would rather the noise wasn't increased for other people because I do not want to deal with negative attention - whether it is people annoyed by the loudness or people itching to drag their keys down the side.LukeyLikey said:
12C and Speciale are very closely matched over ground, depending on the tyres on the 12C. With P Zeros, the 12C can't quite match.
Amusing. You reckon the limiting factor for the 12c vs speciale on the public road is really going to be tyre grip? Some driving gods around here clearly...
isaldiri said:
LukeyLikey said:
12C and Speciale are very closely matched over ground, depending on the tyres on the 12C. With P Zeros, the 12C can't quite match.
Amusing. You reckon the limiting factor for the 12c vs speciale on the public road is really going to be tyre grip? Some driving gods around here clearly...
br d said:
Apologies for being LL's white night but where did he say on a public road? He owns both cars and tracks them, I'd imagine that's what he is referring to.
He did say... "very closely matched over ground but not with Pzeros", which I took to be on the road rather than on track as it would have been stated as.. on track in that case?Slickhillsy said:
But!!! No car needs such a pantomime set of doors - IT'S ALL LOOK AT ME... (at this point I'll get my coat 
) 
Ha! ) You're right of course. I'm so embarrassed by the silly doors that when there are lots of people around I just leave the roof down then run up to the car and leap in.
I mean, I wouldn't want to look silly.
Edited by br d on Thursday 8th October 15:19
Edited by br d on Thursday 8th October 15:20
Slickhillsy said:
greenbandit641 said:
the Scud owner who also happens to have one of the noisiest bikes every made is into hearing what he is driving/riding
- 100% correct, show me someone who owns a Supercar / Superbike that doesn’t. In fact the noise emitted from my bike certainly helps me get noticed by dozy old lady's (or gentlemen) pulling out blindly from junctions #lifesaver... greenbandit641 said:
but also wants everyone else to hear it
- Why not? Don’t get me wrong the valves do have their quiet moments but as others have mentioned it’s a weekend fun car and I've yet to have any complaints / in fact quite the opposite...greenbandit641 said:
I think it's called attention seeking?
- See below... I think they call thatPot...
.... Kettle!
Cars have to have an exhaust (be they loud or less loud). But!!! No car needs such a pantomime set of doors - IT'S ALL LOOK AT ME... (at this point I'll get my coat
) http://www.egmcartech.com/2012/06/06/report-mclare...
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