12c trade bids

12c trade bids

Author
Discussion

lowndes

807 posts

213 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Nijius Maximus said:
Couldn't agree more. In fact forget talking about enjoyment of cars, let's go out and DRIVE them.


Nijius Maximus

586 posts

110 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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lowndes said:
Beautiful. Both car and surroundings. Which Alpine-like location is that...? smile

Boshly

2,776 posts

235 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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garyhun said:
Boshly said:
Anyone want to answer my question on whether I'm missing any aesthetic differences between the 12C and the 650s?
For some, the mating of the P1 front to the 12C rear on the 650 looks clumsy and unbalanced.

For others it's just the simplicity of form of the 12C that they prefer.

For others it's a combo of both.
Thanks, so it is simply that. I'm not going mad biggrin the simplicity of form you refer to is the lights and splitter thumbup

Ps what a boring thread this is going to be with everyone just saying "nice car" "ooh yes you too, nice car" laughwink

PPs SLR looks menacing! Very nice car thumbup

Brakke

490 posts

122 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Nijius Maximus said:
Oh my God Brakke, you're even CRAZIER than I am!! Haha.

That's an amazing car you're buying. I don't even know what to say. You got the V12 Vantage Roadster AND then the Ferrari AND now the SLR Roadster. I'm gonna have to buy an Enzo or 918 to stay ahead of you... biggrin

Agree with the shape of the 12c. It was under appreciated at the time, especially by journalists, but it really is ageing well...
Its very weird, I myself wasnt convinved of the 12C when it came out. Not that back then it was any way i could afford it, but thought it lacked pizzazz.
Now the 12C has done a complete 180 on me, and aged very well. As time goes by, the technological difference and performance will be less relevant between the two cars.
Having said that: 650S drivers are getting practically a monster of a race car, so completely get that.

Ah and btw: lets not get into a car-purchase war.... im practically broke now and therefore all out of ammo wink

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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Nijius Maximus said:
Agree with the shape of the 12c. It was under appreciated at the time, especially by journalists, but it really is ageing well...
Is it ?? I think people generally warm to something through familiarity. For some it takes time to accept something different

It could be like the 996 of 911's, and generally less well received if the P1 swan like lights continue into more new incarnations.

I probably feel less anti the 12c headlights and front bumper now than I did 2 years ago but I don't have that "wow" take my breath away feel I did with the 650S design. I never even knew about the swan comparison until a year ago.

I must admit I would of preferred the double fin side intake of the 12C as it looks different/unique rather than the single scoop of 650s but that was done for technical reasons and greater airflow

SlartiF430

1,828 posts

153 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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This is an impossible debate. People who just forked a tonne of cash for a 12c aren't going to agree that theirs is compromised in any way :-) I had a 12c and one of my top reasons for upgrading was because I found the 22c front end too much like my F430 - just didn't excite me and from a previous generation. But what do I know? The price I sold my 430 at was somewhat lower than the value today!

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Saturday 23rd July 2016
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SlartiF430 said:
The price I sold my 430 at was somewhat lower than the value today!
Tell me about it. Ferrari prices are mental currently and I forsee a big correction coming.

Bought my fully loaded 2009 F430 F1 spider in 2010 for £120k, sold it 3 years later with 12k miles on it at £85k. Same car today would be back up at the price I originally paid for it in 2010 and £35k more than I sold it for. I really don't get that.
Yes its a high spec ( racing seats, challenge rear grill etc... ), low mileage, 2 owner car but its still a high volume regular production vehicle and not as good a car as a 12C.

To a certain extent I can see why my old 430 Scuderia has gone from £160k in 2014 to £210 k in 2016 because its a limited number car and quite special but even so its hard to comprehend that its not now peaked and due a fall as well.

McLaren prices certainly haven't enjoyed some of the meteoric increases of lesser Ferrari's so at least any price correction would be less severe and I'm still rather hopeful they might buck the trend and go up as others fall.
Dare I say in years to come they will definitely be sought after just purely down to the small early production numbers in an expanding market with a growing brand.
When it goes it could be exponential so get on the McLaren boat while you can. Others have sailed and are on an empty return journey IMHO

Brakke

490 posts

122 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
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Almost bought a 6sp F430 with racing seats with 20k km on the clock. Asking price was 63k euro 2 years ago.
Decided to buy an AM Vantage 4.3... because i read the Vantage was bullet proof and the f430 had all kinds of joint issues, cats etc.
Now same F430 is worth double.

I know those are the cars that will drop like a brick IF/WHEN the market goes into correction mode. Just too many built.
Same like my 550 maranello. 3083 produced, eventhough mine has original carbon race seats and modular wheels.
How many 12C spiders procuded, anyone know the exact nr??


RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
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Brakke said:
Almost bought a 6sp F430 with racing seats with 20k km on the clock. Asking price was 63k euro 2 years ago.
Decided to buy an AM Vantage 4.3... because i read the Vantage was bullet proof and the f430 had all kinds of joint issues, cats etc.
Now same F430 is worth double.

I know those are the cars that will drop like a brick IF/WHEN the market goes into correction mode. Just too many built.
Same like my 550 maranello. 3083 produced, eventhough mine has original carbon race seats and modular wheels.
How many 12C spiders procuded, anyone know the exact nr??
There are about 3,500 ( Coupe & Spider ) 12C worldwide in total. Maybe 10% 350 in the UK.
Most are coupe as the spider was a late entrant and only produced for less than 2 years.
I would hazard a guess at 1,500 spiders worldwide and maybe 200 tops in the UK.

Compare that with F430 and 458 numbers and you realise the 12c/650S production numbers are small relatively.
540/570S will massively outsell these numbers so my hunch is 12/650S will be quite collectable long term as the demand and desirability of McLaren continues to increase and the supply fixed post production closure

Ferruccio

1,832 posts

118 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
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Buy a Lambo and avoid this conversation.......

Brakke

490 posts

122 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
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Ferruccio said:
Buy a Lambo and avoid this conversation.......
Yes I intend too, but first a Mclaren smile

sone

4,585 posts

237 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
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Ferruccio said:
Buy a Lambo and avoid this conversation.......
+1

Brakke

490 posts

122 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
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RamboLambo said:
There are about 3,500 ( Coupe & Spider ) 12C worldwide in total. Maybe 10% 350 in the UK.
Most are coupe as the spider was a late entrant and only produced for less than 2 years.
I would hazard a guess at 1,500 spiders worldwide and maybe 200 tops in the UK.

Compare that with F430 and 458 numbers and you realise the 12c/650S production numbers are small relatively.
540/570S will massively outsell these numbers so my hunch is 12/650S will be quite collectable long term as the demand and desirability of McLaren continues to increase and the supply fixed post production closure
1500 is in my opinion is a good number, in the sense that if there were fewer the price would be too high to get one now, but not that many that it would keep dropping for a long time.
Anyone finds a LHD 12C spider thats well speccd, PLZ send me a message.

Gdnight!

Rocksteadyeddie

7,971 posts

226 months

Monday 25th July 2016
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RamboLambo said:
Brakke said:
Almost bought a 6sp F430 with racing seats with 20k km on the clock. Asking price was 63k euro 2 years ago.
Decided to buy an AM Vantage 4.3... because i read the Vantage was bullet proof and the f430 had all kinds of joint issues, cats etc.
Now same F430 is worth double.

I know those are the cars that will drop like a brick IF/WHEN the market goes into correction mode. Just too many built.
Same like my 550 maranello. 3083 produced, eventhough mine has original carbon race seats and modular wheels.
How many 12C spiders procuded, anyone know the exact nr??
There are about 3,500 ( Coupe & Spider ) 12C worldwide in total. Maybe 10% 350 in the UK.
Most are coupe as the spider was a late entrant and only produced for less than 2 years.
I would hazard a guess at 1,500 spiders worldwide and maybe 200 tops in the UK.

Compare that with F430 and 458 numbers and you realise the 12c/650S production numbers are small relatively.
540/570S will massively outsell these numbers so my hunch is 12/650S will be quite collectable long term as the demand and desirability of McLaren continues to increase and the supply fixed post production closure
I don't know the Worldwide numbers of 12C but I did ask the question about UK cars when I visited McLaren London recently. The salesman told me that 249 of those produced remained in the UK.. Obviously all of the early cars were coupes, with the later cars being 65-75% spiders (apparently the percentage started lower but was 80% odd spider by the time the 650s came along). Of these he said that approx 50 cars have left the country - mainly for Hong Kong - and of the remainder he said that he was aware of approx 10 that McLaren know about have been written off (so probably a few more than this). So 190-200 seems about the right sort of number all told.

RamboLambo

4,843 posts

169 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Rocksteadyeddie said:
I don't know the Worldwide numbers of 12C but I did ask the question about UK cars when I visited McLaren London recently. The salesman told me that 249 of those produced remained in the UK.. Obviously all of the early cars were coupes, with the later cars being 65-75% spiders (apparently the percentage started lower but was 80% odd spider by the time the 650s came along). Of these he said that approx 50 cars have left the country - mainly for Hong Kong - and of the remainder he said that he was aware of approx 10 that McLaren know about have been written off (so probably a few more than this). So 190-200 seems about the right sort of number all told.
Interesting, thanks for update.

didn't realise that many were being exported already.

I guess with the £ dropping exports will become even more prevalent. If UK stock reduces, current owners hang on to theirs, supply will dry up as we are already seeing on 12C spider and therefore with the rules of supply and demand prices will go up.

I love it when a plan comes together. Happy Dayz

Bispal

1,603 posts

150 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Rocksteadyeddie said:
I don't know the Worldwide numbers of 12C but I did ask the question about UK cars when I visited McLaren London recently. The salesman told me that 249 of those produced remained in the UK.. Obviously all of the early cars were coupes, with the later cars being 65-75% spiders (apparently the percentage started lower but was 80% odd spider by the time the 650s came along). Of these he said that approx 50 cars have left the country - mainly for Hong Kong - and of the remainder he said that he was aware of approx 10 that McLaren know about have been written off (so probably a few more than this). So 190-200 seems about the right sort of number all told.
That seems to align with 'how many left' which states 280 (ish) 12C's. However many early 650's and LT's and P1's were registered as 12C's by McLaren as they had the same tub & engine and that avoided re crash-testing.

W4NTED

688 posts

213 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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RamboLambo said:
SlartiF430 said:
The price I sold my 430 at was somewhat lower than the value today!
Tell me about it. Ferrari prices are mental currently and I forsee a big correction coming.

Bought my fully loaded 2009 F430 F1 spider in 2010 for £120k, sold it 3 years later with 12k miles on it at £85k. Same car today would be back up at the price I originally paid for it in 2010 and £35k more than I sold it for. I really don't get that.
Yes its a high spec ( racing seats, challenge rear grill etc... ), low mileage, 2 owner car but its still a high volume regular production vehicle and not as good a car as a 12C.

To a certain extent I can see why my old 430 Scuderia has gone from £160k in 2014 to £210 k in 2016 because its a limited number car and quite special but even so its hard to comprehend that its not now peaked and due a fall as well.

McLaren prices certainly haven't enjoyed some of the meteoric increases of lesser Ferrari's so at least any price correction would be less severe and I'm still rather hopeful they might buck the trend and go up as others fall.
Dare I say in years to come they will definitely be sought after just purely down to the small early production numbers in an expanding market with a growing brand.
When it goes it could be exponential so get on the McLaren boat while you can. Others have sailed and are on an empty return journey IMHO
Mclaren's will only fall further as time moves on. With a new model launch pretty much every 3 months the older models will only go one way and that is DOWN! 650s for £120k and a 570s for £85k is not too far away. They are lovely car's but Mclaren will be a victim of their own stupid launch tactics. They need to take a leaf out of the Italian book and come out with ONE good model that can rule the market for a good few years before even thinking about the next.



br d

8,388 posts

225 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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There are still some other threads you could be bashing McLaren on.

W4NTED

688 posts

213 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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br d said:
There are still some other threads you could be bashing McLaren on.
Yes I know but I want to be RamboLambo part 2

simonr100

640 posts

116 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
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W4NTED said:
br d said:
There are still some other threads you could be bashing McLaren on.
Yes I know but I want to be RamboLambo part 2
Have you even driven a McLaren? I do feel that they are going to make far too many new cars but that doesn't stop them being better than other marques, if McLaren prices fall then so will others as people will see what you can get for your money.
Maybe you are scared of the Unknown? I wanted a Ferrari until I looked into McLaren. I now still want a Ferrari but as I have to wait a year until I can also have a Ferrari I bought what I thought was the only sensible choice.....