12c trade bids
Discussion
RamboLambo said:
simonr100 said:
When I bought 2 weeks ago it was a choice between a VR 2014 12C spider than had done 6k miles for £150k or a 2016 650 spider also in VR for £178k that had done 2k miles. In the end I went for the 12c because I preferred the looks and couldn't justify the extra £28k even though you get more for your money.
Blimey, I find that very surprising. That's the used car market for you though. One car stood in on the high side and the other looking too cheapI can only assume the 12C is fully loaded and the 650S is a low spec car for that sort of difference.
I know everyone has a budget but for £28k personally I would of definitely extended myself or financed the difference as I think you would get most of it, if not all of it back a couple years down the line.
I hope 12C prices continue to rise as they will always underpin 650S prices. I think some of the harsh/unfair press criticism of early MP4 12C and comments like the 650S is the car the 12C should of always have been will ensure that
The 650 is the car that got me interested in McLaren but the 12c stole my heart.......
simonr100 said:
The 650 is the car that got me interested in McLaren but the 12c stole my heart.......
Having driven several examples of both over a reasonable period of time I couldn't agree more... The 650s is a fine car but the 12C (especially in spider form) just has that something extra about it.I've said it a few times now, when the time comes a 12C spider will be the only thing to tempt me out of my current 360 spider.
Enjoy your new car.
simonr100 said:
When I bought 2 weeks ago it was a choice between a VR 2014 12C spider than had done 6k miles for £150k or a 2016 650 spider also in VR for £178k that had done 2k miles. In the end I went for the 12c because I preferred the looks and couldn't justify the extra £28k even though you get more for your money.
That's a no brainer....for only an extra £28k the 650 was the way to go.... 2 years younger with 3 years warranty, improved dynamics, lower mileage....TP321 said:
simonr100 said:
When I bought 2 weeks ago it was a choice between a VR 2014 12C spider than had done 6k miles for £150k or a 2016 650 spider also in VR for £178k that had done 2k miles. In the end I went for the 12c because I preferred the looks and couldn't justify the extra £28k even though you get more for your money.
That's a no brainer....for only an extra £28k the 650 was the way to go.... 2 years younger with 3 years warranty, improved dynamics, lower mileage....I take nothing away from the 650, it's a stunning car and I love Mantis green. I would love one in my garage at any point and no doubt I will buy one at some point.
How often can you use the extras of the 650? Warranty is of no issue to me - I can afford a repair without blinking - it's about what looks best and the 12c wins by a large margin in MY opinion.
The 650 is a better car in just about every way but looks wise in my eyes it isn't as nice although it's very stunning. We all have different tastes and I respect your choice of the 650 over the 12c but don't dismiss mine for being different than yours.
simonr100 said:
For you maybe but the 12c was a no brainier for me. Looks win over age every time.
I take nothing away from the 650, it's a stunning car and I love Mantis green. I would love one in my garage at any point and no doubt I will buy one at some point.
How often can you use the extras of the 650? Warranty is of no issue to me - I can afford a repair without blinking - it's about what looks best and the 12c wins by a large margin in MY opinion.
The 650 is a better car in just about every way but looks wise in my eyes it isn't as nice although it's very stunning. We all have different tastes and I respect your choice of the 650 over the 12c but don't dismiss mine for being different than yours.
Simon, 100% agree my friend. I've never liked the 650s design: half P1, half 12c. It's a weird miss mash in my opinion. The bonnet seems quite bulky as well whereas the 12c looks sleeker. It's something that has aged really well especially when you get the right colour combinations. I take nothing away from the 650, it's a stunning car and I love Mantis green. I would love one in my garage at any point and no doubt I will buy one at some point.
How often can you use the extras of the 650? Warranty is of no issue to me - I can afford a repair without blinking - it's about what looks best and the 12c wins by a large margin in MY opinion.
The 650 is a better car in just about every way but looks wise in my eyes it isn't as nice although it's very stunning. We all have different tastes and I respect your choice of the 650 over the 12c but don't dismiss mine for being different than yours.
That's why I can't help going down to my car park to have a look at mine...
Of course this is all just our opinion. Everyone has different tastes. 650s for you, 12c for me etc.
Nijius Maximus said:
Simon, 100% agree my friend. I've never liked the 650s design: half P1, half 12c. It's a weird miss mash in my opinion. The bonnet seems quite bulky as well whereas the 12c looks sleeker. It's something that has aged really well especially when you get the right colour combinations.
That's why I can't help going down to my car park to have a look at mine...
Of course this is all just our opinion. Everyone has different tastes. 650s for you, 12c for me etc.
Yeah that colour combo, carbon and "penis" wheels really work. I never used to like silver because so many cars especially Audi TT's were that colour but because very few subsequently chose it for 12C its kind of making a comeback in my mind.That's why I can't help going down to my car park to have a look at mine...
Of course this is all just our opinion. Everyone has different tastes. 650s for you, 12c for me etc.
That said I did choose my Volcano Red 650S spider in preference to a pearlescent silver 650S with those wheels red calipers and details and lots of carbon at the time.
Edited by RamboLambo on Friday 22 July 11:59
What am I missing between the looks of the 12C and the 650s? I know the lights of course and the single/double side scoop and mine has the carbon splitter so that's a bit more prominent but am I missing anything else or is that it? I just keep reading how much different the 12C is etc... They look bloody similar to me (lights excepted)? I am of course comparing spider to spider etc.
I think it's generally been covered, the 650 has a few extra bits, costs a bit more looks are subjective horses for courses etc. I fully understand those that prefer the looks of the 12c I fully understand those that prefer the coupe - I don't but others do. C'est la vie.
What I can't understand and struggle to come to terms with is the dismissing of the additional warranty and newness. Fella above who can easily afford any repair (sorry, comes across terribly as "considerably richer than yow") is surely talking bunkum? £28k for 4000 less miles and two less years age and two more years warranty is bloody good value never mind the extra kit on the 650. And we know newness matters as 2014 12c's are generally more money than equivalent 2013 12c's etc.
Especially when as RL has pointed out you'll probably get most of that back - though appreciate that's not guaranteed. There's no finance implications because we already know your financial clout
Now - revert back to the debated issue - if you prefer the looks of the 12c so much more that's absolutely what you should buy irrespective of value for money. An R8 is far better value for money for a mid engines car than my 650 but I don't want one; in view of future appreciation a 458 SA is better value than my 650s but I don't want one of those either (though to be fair I couldn't afford one
). You buy what you like of course but please don't justify the reason or the benefits of the other car with irrelevant stuff. Anyway you already told us your wife wouldn't let you spend more than £150k
Guys lovely cars all. 12c is great value but at the moment 650 is 'better' value though more money. Buy what you want however and most importantly drive and enjoy it!!!!
I think it's generally been covered, the 650 has a few extra bits, costs a bit more looks are subjective horses for courses etc. I fully understand those that prefer the looks of the 12c I fully understand those that prefer the coupe - I don't but others do. C'est la vie.
What I can't understand and struggle to come to terms with is the dismissing of the additional warranty and newness. Fella above who can easily afford any repair (sorry, comes across terribly as "considerably richer than yow") is surely talking bunkum? £28k for 4000 less miles and two less years age and two more years warranty is bloody good value never mind the extra kit on the 650. And we know newness matters as 2014 12c's are generally more money than equivalent 2013 12c's etc.
Especially when as RL has pointed out you'll probably get most of that back - though appreciate that's not guaranteed. There's no finance implications because we already know your financial clout
Now - revert back to the debated issue - if you prefer the looks of the 12c so much more that's absolutely what you should buy irrespective of value for money. An R8 is far better value for money for a mid engines car than my 650 but I don't want one; in view of future appreciation a 458 SA is better value than my 650s but I don't want one of those either (though to be fair I couldn't afford one
). You buy what you like of course but please don't justify the reason or the benefits of the other car with irrelevant stuff. Anyway you already told us your wife wouldn't let you spend more than £150k Guys lovely cars all. 12c is great value but at the moment 650 is 'better' value though more money. Buy what you want however and most importantly drive and enjoy it!!!!
Boshly said:
What I can't understand and struggle to come to terms with is the dismissing of the additional warranty and newness. Fella above who can easily afford any repair (sorry, comes across terribly as "considerably richer than yow") is surely talking bunkum? £28k for 4000 less miles and two less years age and two more years warranty is bloody good value never mind the extra kit on the 650. And we know newness matters as 2014 12c's are generally more money than equivalent 2013 12c's etc.
I certainly didn't mean that. I meant that a warranty wasn't a big issue for me - I would rather choose a car I loved with less warranty than a newer car with more warranty that I didn't like as much.K50 DEL said:
Having driven several examples of both over a reasonable period of time I couldn't agree more... The 650s is a fine car but the 12C (especially in spider form) just has that something extra about it.
I've said it a few times now, when the time comes a 12C spider will be the only thing to tempt me out of my current 360 spider.
Enjoy your new car.
Not being rude but are you for real ?I've said it a few times now, when the time comes a 12C spider will be the only thing to tempt me out of my current 360 spider.
Enjoy your new car.
Are you seriously saying haven driven both cars you think the 12C is more special than a 650S ???!
There was not 1 bad review on 650S with some commenting that the 650S was the car the 12C should have always been.
Steve Sutcliffe " 650s is So much better than 12C it defies belief"
I've not come across anyone who has not said the 650S is an improvement dynamically versus 12C and there has been a lot of 12C owners recently who have subsequently upgraded to 650S and confirmed this fact.
If you prefer 12C looks that's fine but to suggest 12C is a better drive is hogwash IMHO
I originally had a budget of £150k and went to look at a stunning 12C spider in Volcano Yellow. It was 18 mths old with 5,000 miles 1 owner and we just couldn't agree a deal on the day as it was up for £155k and I wanted to pay £150k. Whilst I was there I then made the mistake of test driving the 650S straight afterwards and immediately I could tell the difference between the 2 cars. I could go on about the CC brakes, the heavier steering, better exhaust sound and the massive increase in torque across the rev range but suddenly all these things came together to make the car feel alive and more exciting. For me it was noticeably better,
So much so I spent an additional £80k 50%+ to buy a brand new one. I knew buying new would cost me a bit more with 1st year depreciation etc... but I thought it was worth it
Now I get not everyone would value that at £80k but come on £28k is a snip and no brainer unless its purely a looks thing which I can accept.( even if I feel oppositely about them )
I also get it if the wife wears the trousers
I have been saying the 12C coupe is the supercar bargain of the moment at £120k but the more I think about it used 650S spiders at £180k given its a newer/higher spec car seem to be incredible value if indeed the price delta is just £30k which I just cant see.
Either way both great cars and when you compare them to F430 and 458 prices the McLarens make far more sense IMHO.
Maybe prices are finally starting to reflect this as Ferraris seem to be coming down and McLarens going up
Edited by RamboLambo on Friday 22 July 17:18
Edited by RamboLambo on Friday 22 July 18:20
Edited by RamboLambo on Friday 22 July 18:26
Just as the looks are subjective, so are the handling differences as both are not different as night and day despite various claims. The 650 has better build quality, considerably so in some cases, better gearbox software and braking feel on ceramics. that may or may not along with the subjective differences be worth the difference in price whatever that is whether £30k or £50k.
Can't it just be left there rather than people being so damned defensive about their choice of car and feel the need to slag off the other to justify their own car....?
Can't it just be left there rather than people being so damned defensive about their choice of car and feel the need to slag off the other to justify their own car....?
isaldiri said:
Just as the looks are subjective, so are the handling differences as both are not different as night and day despite various claims. The 650 has better build quality, considerably so in some cases, better gearbox software and braking feel on ceramics. that may or may not along with the subjective differences be worth the difference in price whatever that is whether £30k or £50k.
Can't it just be left there rather than people being so damned defensive about their choice of car and feel the need to slag off the other to justify their own car....?
I agree with this. I stated it earlier that we all like different things for different reasons. Whatever one chooses is not a reflection on anyone else's choice, it's just different.Can't it just be left there rather than people being so damned defensive about their choice of car and feel the need to slag off the other to justify their own car....?
Jeeezz people, whats going on. Not very gentleman-like behaviour going on here.
How about we stop attacking people who voice an opinion by shouting harder that your opinion is more relevant.
Absolutely tasteless to make remarks about someone who makes an agreement with his wife to stick to a budget and then for people to use that against him. Let's stop this kind of internet-hero-wannabe behaviour and get back to talking about or enjoyment of cars.
Amen.
simonr100 said:
Boshly said:
What I can't understand and struggle to come to terms with is the dismissing of the additional warranty and newness. Fella above who can easily afford any repair (sorry, comes across terribly as "considerably richer than yow") is surely talking bunkum? £28k for 4000 less miles and two less years age and two more years warranty is bloody good value never mind the extra kit on the 650. And we know newness matters as 2014 12c's are generally more money than equivalent 2013 12c's etc.
I certainly didn't mean that. I meant that a warranty wasn't a big issue for me - I would rather choose a car I loved with less warranty than a newer car with more warranty that I didn't like as much. and for the record I agree with you Brakke said:
Jeeezz people, whats going on. Not very gentleman-like behaviour going on here.
How about we stop attacking people who voice an opinion by shouting harder that your opinion is more relevant.
Absolutely tasteless to make remarks about someone who makes an agreement with his wife to stick to a budget and then for people to use that against him. Let's stop this kind of internet-hero-wannabe behaviour and get back to talking about or enjoyment of cars.
Amen.
Oh lighten up! "Internet hero wannabe behaviour"? Really? How about we stop attacking people who voice an opinion by shouting harder that your opinion is more relevant.
Absolutely tasteless to make remarks about someone who makes an agreement with his wife to stick to a budget and then for people to use that against him. Let's stop this kind of internet-hero-wannabe behaviour and get back to talking about or enjoyment of cars.
Amen.
It's called a debate, a discussion. It takes different opinions, expressed robustly if necessary. Yes he got a bit of a 'slating' for using the wife argument but it's all (mostly!) tongue in cheek and part of being in an open forum. If you don't want to defend letting the wife dictate your budget (and she does on certain things in our household) then don't bring it up.
His response was fair and reasonable and shows he doesn't really need anyone to fight his battles on his behalf.
Now let's get back to cars. As I said, lovely cars one and all - to most one is slightly lovelier than the other.
Anyone want to answer my question on whether I'm missing any aesthetic differences between the 12C and the 650s?
I think they both look good. 12c is more elegant and slightly understated. You could almost take it to customer meetings. I loved mine to bits. However...I upgraded to a 650s because it looks way more aggressive, and in the end this is what I want from my supercar. I get plenty understated in my golf and q7.
Boshly said:
Anyone want to answer my question on whether I'm missing any aesthetic differences between the 12C and the 650s?
For some, the mating of the P1 front to the 12C rear on the 650 looks clumsy and unbalanced.For others it's just the simplicity of form of the 12C that they prefer.
For others it's a combo of both.
breadvan said:
Wife stopped play!
TBH I've got my heart set on a 570GT. Saw it at Geneva and loved it, watch this space (just don't tell my wife).
breadvan, I know this was back on the 28th June BUT I forgot to say THANK YOU... to your wife. If she hadn't stopped you going to McBrum to see/buy the 12c I wouldn't have had the chance to take it for myself.TBH I've got my heart set on a 570GT. Saw it at Geneva and loved it, watch this space (just don't tell my wife).
Cracking car. You would've loved it...
Brakke said:
Jeeezz people, whats going on. Not very gentleman-like behaviour going on here.
How about we stop attacking people who voice an opinion by shouting harder that your opinion is more relevant.
Absolutely tasteless to make remarks about someone who makes an agreement with his wife to stick to a budget and then for people to use that against him. Let's stop this kind of internet-hero-wannabe behaviour and get back to talking about or enjoyment of cars.
Amen.
Couldn't agree more. In fact forget talking about enjoyment of cars, let's go out and DRIVE them. Most of us here own a McLaren and we should be happy and proud of it. With the weather being so great right now as well (in England anyway) we should be out driving them, especially those with spiders.How about we stop attacking people who voice an opinion by shouting harder that your opinion is more relevant.
Absolutely tasteless to make remarks about someone who makes an agreement with his wife to stick to a budget and then for people to use that against him. Let's stop this kind of internet-hero-wannabe behaviour and get back to talking about or enjoyment of cars.
Amen.
We should be posting up photos and videos of us enjoying our cars not arguing amongst ourselves.
This weekend I'll be driving my two new British Babies below to hotels, BBQs, pubs, the countryside and central London. I suggest you all do the same...
Agreed, lets move on then.
Great Combo Nijius!
Was looking for a 12C spider myself, just cant find the spec im after. 650S is out of the question, just dont like the look of the headlights, I took the time to go to the dealers. Yes its a faster car, better tech etc, but the 12C just looks so much better with the headlights and the double side-intakes...... so until I can find the spec I want I have decided to buy SLR Roadster haha . PPI Thursday and then she is all mine.
Great Combo Nijius!
Was looking for a 12C spider myself, just cant find the spec im after. 650S is out of the question, just dont like the look of the headlights, I took the time to go to the dealers. Yes its a faster car, better tech etc, but the 12C just looks so much better with the headlights and the double side-intakes...... so until I can find the spec I want I have decided to buy SLR Roadster haha
. PPI Thursday and then she is all mine.Brakke said:
Agreed, lets move on then.
Great Combo Nijius!
Was looking for a 12C spider myself, just cant find the spec im after. 650S is out of the question, just dont like the look of the headlights, I took the time to go to the dealers. Yes its a faster car, better tech etc, but the 12C just looks so much better with the headlights and the double side-intakes...... so until I can find the spec I want I have decided to buy SLR Roadster haha . PPI Thursday and then she is all mine.
Oh my God Brakke, you're even CRAZIER than I am!! Haha. Great Combo Nijius!
Was looking for a 12C spider myself, just cant find the spec im after. 650S is out of the question, just dont like the look of the headlights, I took the time to go to the dealers. Yes its a faster car, better tech etc, but the 12C just looks so much better with the headlights and the double side-intakes...... so until I can find the spec I want I have decided to buy SLR Roadster haha
. PPI Thursday and then she is all mine.That's an amazing car you're buying. I don't even know what to say. You got the V12 Vantage Roadster AND then the Ferrari AND now the SLR Roadster. I'm gonna have to buy an Enzo or 918 to stay ahead of you...
Agree with the shape of the 12c. It was under appreciated at the time, especially by journalists, but it really is ageing well...
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