12c trade bids
Discussion
[quote=isaldiri]
In all honesty the only way for you to really tell is to try one yourself rather than blindly believing the automotive press which tends to have it's own agenda. I think it is fair to say I've driven and tracked the car more than most here on the forums, admittedly nowhere close to the level of Plato or Needell but in the conditions they were driving the car, ie dry and reasonable temperature I have never ever found the handling of the 12c to be anything other than very secure and progressive, even if the brake steer function kicking in can feel a bit unnatural in slow corners. A friend who can and has driven his car sub 7:30 btg agrees with that as well i might add. That said, the car cannot easily do a full on powerslide of the likes Needell tends to do though as the electronics were just not calibrated for that lind of driving imo and i also do note I've not actually seen an owner wilfully trying to wreck £250 rear tyres in that way either.
In the wet, on track it's a very different car though and is a total handful to drive.
I,m sure your right isaldiri plus i,m sure i will never be any where near its limits so no problems.
In all honesty the only way for you to really tell is to try one yourself rather than blindly believing the automotive press which tends to have it's own agenda. I think it is fair to say I've driven and tracked the car more than most here on the forums, admittedly nowhere close to the level of Plato or Needell but in the conditions they were driving the car, ie dry and reasonable temperature I have never ever found the handling of the 12c to be anything other than very secure and progressive, even if the brake steer function kicking in can feel a bit unnatural in slow corners. A friend who can and has driven his car sub 7:30 btg agrees with that as well i might add. That said, the car cannot easily do a full on powerslide of the likes Needell tends to do though as the electronics were just not calibrated for that lind of driving imo and i also do note I've not actually seen an owner wilfully trying to wreck £250 rear tyres in that way either.
In the wet, on track it's a very different car though and is a total handful to drive.
Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 5th June 11:58
[I,m sure your right isaldiri plus i,m sure i will never be any where near its limits so no problems.
Isaldiri is right. Try one or two and see how you get on with it. There seem to be plenty of people who keep a 12c just for track work, so they seem to be ok there. As for the road - it can be a mile muncher or a B road fun car.
The early tests were in pre-updated cars. I understand that a lot of work was put into them, modified software as well as HP increases. The interior is screwed together very well and hasn't dated IMO at all. Certainly as well put together interior as any Porsche I've been in.
The early tests were in pre-updated cars. I understand that a lot of work was put into them, modified software as well as HP increases. The interior is screwed together very well and hasn't dated IMO at all. Certainly as well put together interior as any Porsche I've been in.
GT4RS said:
Some interesting comments.
Now mclaren have some new cars coming out do you guys think prices of the 12c will drop below 100k, if so where do you think the bottom of a car like this is if the car market goes into a downward trend?
Of course it will. The nail in the 12c/650s coffin is the 540/570. How long before a 540C is £100k? One-two years. By which time the 12C is already 6-7 years old. Which one would you have, the one year two year old still under warranty or the 2011/2012 car? Already 12C prices have suffered as a result of people buying new 570s...Now mclaren have some new cars coming out do you guys think prices of the 12c will drop below 100k, if so where do you think the bottom of a car like this is if the car market goes into a downward trend?
The 12c/650s marketing has been a cockup...just wait for the P14 if the 570s is not supercar enough for you.
TP321 said:
Already 12C prices have suffered as a result of people buying new 570s...
Utter drivel.If you are going to talk down prices please make them factual.
The only thing that has happened to the 12c market in the last 12 months is that all the good cars have been bought (Can you see ANY Volcano Red/McLaren Orange/White or other desirable cars/specs for sale apart from grey & black cars) and the market has dried up as a consequence.....if what you were saying was true there would be a glut of cars for sale as everyone sells up for a 570s but I don't think I've seen a single post from anyone or on the owners group that has sold a 12c for a 570s.....
Just because the 570s/540c are new or cheaper, that does not mean a collapse in the market of the 12c or the 650s...
GT4RS said:
Some interesting comments.
Now mclaren have some new cars coming out do you guys think prices of the 12c will drop below 100k, if so where do you think the bottom of a car like this is if the car market goes into a downward trend?
Mclaren prices have stabilised over the past 18 months around their current level. Now mclaren have some new cars coming out do you guys think prices of the 12c will drop below 100k, if so where do you think the bottom of a car like this is if the car market goes into a downward trend?
Also, Mclarens product launches haven't been any secret (except 675LT Spider) and you could've made the 12C / 5XX choice for about a year or so now, so I would think that is priced in already.
From what I can gather, quite a few 12C owners in the past year have moved on to 650/675 which may have accounted for a few extra cars on the market at that time. Which is a good endorsement of the brand. Not heard of any trading a 12C for a 5XX yet?? For me, part of the decision was to buy the Super Series car, the one the built without compromise (their words). So far, it's exceeded my expectations by a country mile and I barely touch the surface of its capabilities.
Used 2015/16 650/675LT or P14 (in 12 - 18 months) would be the natural next step for current 12C owners. As for the P14 impacting significantly on 12C prices in 18 months time, I can't see too many prospective P14 buyers choosing between that or a 12C. There will be significant (think huge) daylight between the P14 and 12C in price terms.
Another way of looking at it is there should be indie servicing agents opening in the not too distant future to help reduce the cost of maintaining the cars also; and there is likely to be a further extension of the McLaren warranty on offer.
TP321 (Ron Dennis' jealous twin brother maybe?) may well have a better crystal ball than everyone else though.
Having said that: don't buy one hoping to make a profit and you won't be disappointed. They're all fantastic cars.
TP321 said:
Anyone else notice that the price of Hurracan coupe has yet to fall below that of the 650 Spider of the same age (2014). Strange that really, when the 650s is a spider v a coupe, but is technologically the better car (carbon tub, actice aero, 641bhp v 601bhp...).
Yes. Strange isn't it.TP321 said:
Anyone else notice that the price of Hurracan coupe has yet to fall below that of the 650 Spider of the same age (2014). Strange that really, when the 650s is a spider v a coupe, but is technologically the better car (carbon tub, actice aero, 641bhp v 601bhp...).
Out of interest what do you drive?
Sarnie said:
Utter drivel.
If you are going to talk down prices please make them factual.
The only thing that has happened to the 12c market in the last 12 months is that all the good cars have been bought (Can you see ANY Volcano Red/McLaren Orange/White or other desirable cars/specs for sale apart from grey & black cars) and the market has dried up as a consequence.....if what you were saying was true there would be a glut of cars for sale as everyone sells up for a 570s but I don't think I've seen a single post from anyone or on the owners group that has sold a 12c for a 570s.....
Just because the 570s/540c are new or cheaper, that does not mean a collapse in the market of the 12c or the 650s...
Of course they have been bought, because a car with a list price of £200k in 2012 that can be had now for £110k is a bargain - which is why incidentally a lot of you have bought one in the last 6 months. Go and buy it list if you dare.....If you are going to talk down prices please make them factual.
The only thing that has happened to the 12c market in the last 12 months is that all the good cars have been bought (Can you see ANY Volcano Red/McLaren Orange/White or other desirable cars/specs for sale apart from grey & black cars) and the market has dried up as a consequence.....if what you were saying was true there would be a glut of cars for sale as everyone sells up for a 570s but I don't think I've seen a single post from anyone or on the owners group that has sold a 12c for a 570s.....
Just because the 570s/540c are new or cheaper, that does not mean a collapse in the market of the 12c or the 650s...
Mastiff said:
VAT in the motor trade does not take "profit" into consideration.
If the dealer gave £100,000.00 for the car and sold for £121,500.00 - his liability on that is £4300.00 - then you need to take away warranty, service, prep etc...
No it would be £3583 assuming you're right on the other stuff which I have no idea about so presume you are correct.If the dealer gave £100,000.00 for the car and sold for £121,500.00 - his liability on that is £4300.00 - then you need to take away warranty, service, prep etc...
I would guess the warranty service etc would be a net number also as the payments would be vat deductible.
TP321 said:
Of course they have been bought, because a car with a list price of £200k in 2012 that can be had now for £110k is a bargain - which is why incidentally a lot of you have bought one in the last 6 months. Go and buy it list if you dare.....
Lots of people are buying new cars list and discounted, lots of people are buying used examples - that's all that matters. Your agenda seems clear to me.Selon (I think) hit the nail on the head. Car is great, car is great value, if you like it buy one. Don't expect to make money but any hit you may take will be minimal on a 12C or even 650s at this stage. I would suggest the hit I take on my everyday car will be significantly bigger.
As to comparisons with Huraccan or 458 or whatever quite honestly at this level £10/15k ether way won't sway most buyers. The cars they prefer, availability, brand experience and dealer support will.
TP321 probably has to do a lot of talking down before he can actually afford to buy one. Its clearly his dream car really 
And another well done to the mighty McLaren and 675LT becoming fastest Top gear lap car tonight.
McLarens are simply the best out there at the moment and eventually the uneducated will cotton on.
In the meantime happy to be in the knowledgeable exclusive club without the general riff raff
And another well done to the mighty McLaren and 675LT becoming fastest Top gear lap car tonight.
McLarens are simply the best out there at the moment and eventually the uneducated will cotton on.
In the meantime happy to be in the knowledgeable exclusive club without the general riff raff
TP321 said:
Sarnie said:
Utter drivel.
If you are going to talk down prices please make them factual.
The only thing that has happened to the 12c market in the last 12 months is that all the good cars have been bought (Can you see ANY Volcano Red/McLaren Orange/White or other desirable cars/specs for sale apart from grey & black cars) and the market has dried up as a consequence.....if what you were saying was true there would be a glut of cars for sale as everyone sells up for a 570s but I don't think I've seen a single post from anyone or on the owners group that has sold a 12c for a 570s.....
Just because the 570s/540c are new or cheaper, that does not mean a collapse in the market of the 12c or the 650s...
Of course they have been bought, because a car with a list price of £200k in 2012 that can be had now for £110k is a bargain - which is why incidentally a lot of you have bought one in the last 6 months. Go and buy it list if you dare.....If you are going to talk down prices please make them factual.
The only thing that has happened to the 12c market in the last 12 months is that all the good cars have been bought (Can you see ANY Volcano Red/McLaren Orange/White or other desirable cars/specs for sale apart from grey & black cars) and the market has dried up as a consequence.....if what you were saying was true there would be a glut of cars for sale as everyone sells up for a 570s but I don't think I've seen a single post from anyone or on the owners group that has sold a 12c for a 570s.....
Just because the 570s/540c are new or cheaper, that does not mean a collapse in the market of the 12c or the 650s...
I spoke extensively to Ian Groves at McLaren Brum about the 570s........loved the demo car they had but to my mind, the only way it was attractive was at the absolute base price...........once you added things that you would expect, it's easily at £160k.......more for me if I added what I really wanted..........I applaud all the people that are ordering fairly sparse spec 540/570 cars.......but I would want my car to be the same spec as a decent 12c/650s and to do that the price rises easily to £180k+..........
To say that a low spec 540/570 Sport series car would put price downward pressure on high spec 12c/650s isn't correct in my opinion......personally, I think they may wear the same badge but I think their future price and desirability are independent of each other.....
Edited by Sarnie on Monday 6th June 08:51
RamboLambo said:
TP321 probably has to do a lot of talking down before he can actually afford to buy one. Its clearly his dream car really
And another well done to the mighty McLaren and 675LT becoming fastest Top gear lap car tonight.
McLarens are simply the best out there at the moment and eventually the uneducated will cotton on.
In the meantime happy to be in the knowledgeable exclusive club without the general riff raff
You really don't do yourself or more importantly the marque any favours!And another well done to the mighty McLaren and 675LT becoming fastest Top gear lap car tonight.
McLarens are simply the best out there at the moment and eventually the uneducated will cotton on.
In the meantime happy to be in the knowledgeable exclusive club without the general riff raff
People will always talk up or down values for their own good. If anyone knew what really will happen with future values they would be gazillionaires and far too busy to be on pistonheads
All I can add is when I bought my 12C I was looking for a car that would not suffer from huge depreciation and after a lot of research settled on the 12C. Why? Well it was much derided car when new but they were all subsequently upgraded and none of the upgraded cars appear to have been tested. Also they are universally loved and cherished by owners. This probably means that prices are slightly depressed due to the early pre upgrade reviews.
In addition there are only around 300 12C's in the UK so if owners keep hold of them and their friends discover how good they are and 'want' one the desirability should keep prices at least level.
Also, in the past, I waited for GT3 and Ferrari prices to come down. I didn't want the 12C to run away from me and for the reasons above I was worried it would, so I took the plunge and bought one.
For me a 540/70 never entered my mind, it's a different car and looks completely different, I prefer the look of a 12C, I admit those who do prefer the 12C may be in the minority but there are enough of us to keep the market active considering the low numbers.
After owning the car for 6 months I can add that it is stunning, nothing I have ever driven or been driven in comes close to the ability of the car. Why would I trade it for a 570 and have to add probably £60k in cash to the deal? The 12C is a relative (please note the term relative) bargain at the moment and hopefully it will stay that way so people can get the chance to experience the car themselves and they don't get locked away in storage like some other cars.
All I can add is when I bought my 12C I was looking for a car that would not suffer from huge depreciation and after a lot of research settled on the 12C. Why? Well it was much derided car when new but they were all subsequently upgraded and none of the upgraded cars appear to have been tested. Also they are universally loved and cherished by owners. This probably means that prices are slightly depressed due to the early pre upgrade reviews.
In addition there are only around 300 12C's in the UK so if owners keep hold of them and their friends discover how good they are and 'want' one the desirability should keep prices at least level.
Also, in the past, I waited for GT3 and Ferrari prices to come down. I didn't want the 12C to run away from me and for the reasons above I was worried it would, so I took the plunge and bought one.
For me a 540/70 never entered my mind, it's a different car and looks completely different, I prefer the look of a 12C, I admit those who do prefer the 12C may be in the minority but there are enough of us to keep the market active considering the low numbers.
After owning the car for 6 months I can add that it is stunning, nothing I have ever driven or been driven in comes close to the ability of the car. Why would I trade it for a 570 and have to add probably £60k in cash to the deal? The 12C is a relative (please note the term relative) bargain at the moment and hopefully it will stay that way so people can get the chance to experience the car themselves and they don't get locked away in storage like some other cars.
GT4RS said:
Good afternoon all
Could someone in the know please give me an indication what a reputable dealer would offer (trade to buy) for a 2011 plate car with full Mclaren service history and around 10k on the clock?
Many thanks
Call Alastair Bols and talk to him, I sold my 12C Spider and brought my 650S Spider through him in March this year. Cannot recommend him enough, a great and very honest guy to deal with. His margins will be much lower than the main dealers and he has more knowledge than most main dealer sales people. After all he was sales manager for Mclaren London and helped launch / open the showroom in London.Could someone in the know please give me an indication what a reputable dealer would offer (trade to buy) for a 2011 plate car with full Mclaren service history and around 10k on the clock?
Many thanks
Top bloke enough said.
Bispal said:
Well it was much derided car when new but they were all subsequently upgraded and none of the upgraded cars appear to have been tested. Also they are universally loved and cherished by owners. This probably means that prices are slightly depressed due to the early pre upgrade reviews.
It always surprises me how much faith people seem to place on believing the updates fundamentally changed the nature of the car. If you're looking for validation from the automotive press that the upgrades had hugely improved, you might need to look elsewhere. if they thought the 12c pre 2012 was too 'clinical', post updates they would say exactly the same thing. The 2012 update made the gearbox software work a bit smoother and increased hp slightly but it's not as if 600PS wasn't enough. The car still handled more or less exactly the same. The only real benefit was being able to turn down the cabin noise by disabling the idiotic intake sound generator Harry Metcalfe likes to claim that he singlehandedly improved the 12c from preproduction form by suggesting that to Mclaren.
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