P14 mule in Autocar
Discussion
likesachange said:
TerryThomas said:
Remind us how that turned out
Sorry bit of a lurker here... TVR were so close to making a great engine.... after all TVR power rebuild them and offer 5 yr 100,000 mile warranties. I believe design just needed minor tweaking i.e. a few more oil feeds 
Back on to Mclarens i didn't realise the 3.8 engine wasn't there own.... whats it been nabbed from out of interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_M838T_engine
Lest that seem terribly uninspired, bear in mind that the first application of that engine concept was in these:
flemke said:
The engine concept derives from a Nissan design that originated in the late '80s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_M838T_engine
Lest that seem terribly uninspired, bear in mind that the first application of that engine concept was in these:
Good knowledge, That looks incredible!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_M838T_engine
Lest that seem terribly uninspired, bear in mind that the first application of that engine concept was in these:
So really Mclaren's engine has more Kudos that that of a Pagini thats used one from a Mercedes family car ..
likesachange said:
flemke said:
The engine concept derives from a Nissan design that originated in the late '80s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_M838T_engine
Lest that seem terribly uninspired, bear in mind that the first application of that engine concept was in these:
Good knowledge, That looks incredible!https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_M838T_engine
Lest that seem terribly uninspired, bear in mind that the first application of that engine concept was in these:
So really Mclaren's engine has more Kudos that that of a Pagini thats used one from a Mercedes family car ..
Yellow491 said:
TP321 said:
So the spy shots are correct and it was the finished car more or less. Yes it will look better in the "flesh", as do all cars, especially the 12c. However this does not distract from the fact that this is not a game changer design, it is not a spectacular design. Very disappointing.
Agree with above,deff not a game changer,its going to take a better car than that to know the lt off its perch.So poor old rambo will have to save longer to get his ltIt's only going to be a rather a lot powerful than the 675, only marginally heavier (30kg probably) with similar spec (ie bucket seats) with a shedload more tyre so once it's on trofeos, it's going to be decently quicker as well. And it's going to be offered at a list price around ~5% more than a 650. That's probably good enough for most people who aren't hung up on limited edition badges I'd have thought.......
s2000db said:
When are they going to develop and build their own engine?
Imo, at that point they will then become a 'proper supercar' manufacturer....
2011. When they put into production the 3.8l V8.Imo, at that point they will then become a 'proper supercar' manufacturer....
They own the IP and nobody else uses it, how does that make it somebody else's engine?
Doesn't be distracted by the Ricardo connection. Ricardo and AVL design a lot more engines and power trains than the car manufacturers would like you to know about.
The Ford GT and Veyron gearboxes are both Ricardo.
If you definition of not their own relates to Ricardo assembling it, that is not unusual at al, either. Ford still build engines for Aston Martin for example, and Magna Styer are a sub contractor that build entire cars, the first gen Boxster for example.
There's a lot more that hasn't yet been revealed and kept secret, quite rightly.
Only 55 more sleeps and I will casting my eyes on my car.
As a very early adopter of the 12C mine has depreciated £75K in 5 years.
Of course I would have liked it to be less, but not the £100k plus suggested by others.
It was a new and untested brand when I originally signed up to the concept in 2010 and I have to admit that it didn't live up to all of the hype when it was finally delivered a year later, but the 12C is a much maligned, incredible and underrated car.
The pace at which McLaren have evolved and improved their product has left other manufacturers in their wake and the P14 will really be a big step forward, both in design and technology.
Only 55 more sleeps and I will casting my eyes on my car.
As a very early adopter of the 12C mine has depreciated £75K in 5 years.
Of course I would have liked it to be less, but not the £100k plus suggested by others.
It was a new and untested brand when I originally signed up to the concept in 2010 and I have to admit that it didn't live up to all of the hype when it was finally delivered a year later, but the 12C is a much maligned, incredible and underrated car.
The pace at which McLaren have evolved and improved their product has left other manufacturers in their wake and the P14 will really be a big step forward, both in design and technology.
Megaflow said:
2011. When they put into production the 3.8l V8.
They own the IP and nobody else uses it, how does that make it somebody else's engine?
Doesn't be distracted by the Ricardo connection. Ricardo and AVL design a lot more engines and power trains than the car manufacturers would like you to know about.
The Ford GT and Veyron gearboxes are both Ricardo.
If you definition of not their own relates to Ricardo assembling it, that is not unusual at al, either. Ford still build engines for Aston Martin for example, and Magna Styer are a sub contractor that build entire cars, the first gen Boxster for example.
I totally agree Megaflow. For all intents and purposes it is their own engine as it bears little in common with the design they adapted it from and they've done multiple variations of it as well. This isn't some crate engine they buy from another company, this is McLaren's engine. The fact that someone else assembles it for them means nothing except that the company who assembles it is a very long-established company with specific expertise around assembling engines designed to run reliably in high stress situations. I've owned at least one McLaren with every variant of this engine (12C, 650S, 570S, 675LT, P1) and they've all be rock solid. They own the IP and nobody else uses it, how does that make it somebody else's engine?
Doesn't be distracted by the Ricardo connection. Ricardo and AVL design a lot more engines and power trains than the car manufacturers would like you to know about.
The Ford GT and Veyron gearboxes are both Ricardo.
If you definition of not their own relates to Ricardo assembling it, that is not unusual at al, either. Ford still build engines for Aston Martin for example, and Magna Styer are a sub contractor that build entire cars, the first gen Boxster for example.
isaldiri said:
No the P14 is not going to be a game changer.
If the Ferrari 458 was a game-changer over the 430 then this is most definitely a game changer over the 650S. Maybe you don't consider the 458 a game changer over the 430 so perhaps you don't agree but I definitely see it as a game changer for McLaren. Also, and let's be clear about this, very little details have been released about this car. There's a lot still to learn about it. Some of that was hinted at with the reveal at the ball but the majority of it won't be revealed until Geneva International Motor Show is upon us. there were early rumors i think that the P14 would use a complete carbon shell (not sure if correct term) as opposed to just a tub. i.e., the roof would form an integral part of the carbon core, much like the P1 (that IS the case with the P1, isn't it?).
if so, that's definitely a game changer in my book at least, because it would further differentiate it from all other cars at it's price point.
if so, that's definitely a game changer in my book at least, because it would further differentiate it from all other cars at it's price point.
MarkNC said:
If the Ferrari 458 was a game-changer over the 430 then this is most definitely a game changer over the 650S. Maybe you don't consider the 458 a game changer over the 430 so perhaps you don't agree but I definitely see it as a game changer for McLaren. Also, and let's be clear about this, very little details have been released about this car. There's a lot still to learn about it. Some of that was hinted at with the reveal at the ball but the majority of it won't be revealed until Geneva International Motor Show is upon us.
The term gamechanger is thrown around too much these days I think. Just how will the P14 significantly move the sports car bracketforward? It will be nothing more than an evolution of the current Mclaren cars, a bit faster than a 675, a bit lighter than a 650, mid engined dual clutch turbo car (nothing wrong with that either). Sure it'll be really quick but there are ever more cars with pretty stunning performance at lower prices (look at the AMG GT R ring lap). I think cars like the NSX (original), GT-R, and the F1 were gamechangers. There is no way imo the P14 will have that kind of impact.
hesperus said:
there were early rumors i think that the P14 would use a complete carbon shell (not sure if correct term) as opposed to just a tub. i.e., the roof would form an integral part of the carbon core, much like the P1 (that IS the case with the P1, isn't it?).
if so, that's definitely a game changer in my book at least, because it would further differentiate it from all other cars at it's price point.
so, no spider then ?!if so, that's definitely a game changer in my book at least, because it would further differentiate it from all other cars at it's price point.
RamboLambo said:
.....with a lot more technology in it.
Like....? Dual clutch gearbox.....what else? Mag dampers (GM technology there anyway) was done on the 430 scud already.The 458 was a good bit faster, far slicker and better built (not difficult) than the 430 but i somewhat struggle to see how it marks 'a gamechanger'.
isaldiri said:
No the P14 is not going to be a game changer.
It's only going to be a rather a lot powerful than the 675, only marginally heavier (30kg probably) with similar spec (ie bucket seats) with a shedload more tyre so once it's on trofeos, it's going to be decently quicker as well. And it's going to be offered at a list price around ~5% more than a 650. That's probably good enough for most people who aren't hung up on limited edition badges I'd have thought.......
You seem very sure about all this, given no official details have yet been released. It's only going to be a rather a lot powerful than the 675, only marginally heavier (30kg probably) with similar spec (ie bucket seats) with a shedload more tyre so once it's on trofeos, it's going to be decently quicker as well. And it's going to be offered at a list price around ~5% more than a 650. That's probably good enough for most people who aren't hung up on limited edition badges I'd have thought.......
Do you know any actual facts about this car or are you making assumptions based on forum rumours?
New car launch hype as always. It will probably just be an evolution of the 650/570, in that it will use the same engine, carbon tub..etc..etc. What i was really waiting for was a car that looked nothing like the 570/P1. Something new. Yes it will be faster, but who really cares at this level? Its the experience that has to be different and better (how it feels, sounds and how it looks).
Otherwise, we should all just take RamboLambos good advice and buy a used 650s for around £169,995. Bargain.
Otherwise, we should all just take RamboLambos good advice and buy a used 650s for around £169,995. Bargain.
TP321 said:
New car launch hype as always. It will probably just be an evolution of the 650/570, in that it will use the same engine, carbon tub..etc..etc. What i was really waiting for was a car that looked nothing like the 570/P1. Something new. Yes it will be faster, but who really cares at this level? Its the experience that has to be different and better (how it feels, sounds and how it looks).
Otherwise, we should all just take RamboLambos good advice and buy a used 650s for around £169,995. Bargain.
You may well be right but you don't seem to have any actual facts at your disposal. Otherwise, we should all just take RamboLambos good advice and buy a used 650s for around £169,995. Bargain.
All a bit glass half empty.
You never know, you might be pleasantly surprised.
TP321 said:
New car launch hype as always. It will probably just be an evolution of the 650/570, in that it will use the same engine, carbon tub..etc..etc. What i was really waiting for was a car that looked nothing like the 570/P1. Something new. Yes it will be faster, but who really cares at this level? Its the experience that has to be different and better (how it feels, sounds and how it looks).
Otherwise, we should all just take RamboLambos good advice and buy a used 650s for around £169,995. Bargain.
Otherwise, we should all just take RamboLambos good advice and buy a used 650s for around £169,995. Bargain.
Shock horror RamboLambo has been right all along.
Take a bow son
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