P14 mule in Autocar
Discussion
I'm really struggling to like the styling on anything McLaren are doing at the moment. I appreciate them for build, tech etc but I need to love the look of a car as well if I'm spending that much. I'm really hoping they bring something out I fall in love with. Aesthetically Lambo and Ferrari win me over every time. Shame they can't send Mr Melville to Sant Agata for a while.
likesachange said:
Looks very 570 to me... which isnt a bad thing but would be nice to see each model with more of a distinction
I get the impression McLaren could have 'released' images of anything and people would have still said the same thing. "it looks like every other McLaren" blah blah...Well to be honest, no it doesn't look like a McLaren at all it looks like a Ferrari and that's totally the wrong direction for them to be heading. What are the vents in the bonnet doing? Where have the side-pod cooling vents gone which have been a trademark of every McLaren so far? Why are the flying buttress closed off after all the aerodynamic advantages presented on the (beautiful IMHO) 570s?
If the new P14 looks like this, McLaren have just struck a line through all the brand development they have works so had to develop since the MP12 launch.
There was me thinking it would be good to post that Mclaren are sticking with the same engine again and it might be interesting to see what people think, but we have gone down the looks path, and some insults. I didn't expect that, I thought I would get hammered for saying it would be nice to have another engine 
I know some engines have gone on a long time, lambo V12 for instance before the new one, but the current Mclaren engine although powerful does sound, lets say industriously purposeful rather than singing tunefully.
Just out of interest is it a modular engine so go to V10? Ignoring size and packaging for the moment.
I know some engines have gone on a long time, lambo V12 for instance before the new one, but the current Mclaren engine although powerful does sound, lets say industriously purposeful rather than singing tunefully.
Just out of interest is it a modular engine so go to V10? Ignoring size and packaging for the moment.
The M838T is not really McLarens engine. It's provided by Ricardo. It's an evolution of an old TWR race engine. Nothing stopping McLaren doing the same as Aston, Pagani and Morgan.
The P14 pictures that have "leaked" show it to be incohesive IMO It doesn't flow and looks too much like lots of parts of other cars
I get the 2 car comments on the 650, ATEOTD that's because it is
I would love an LT rear on mine, but it is such a great piece of kit I can easily get past that
I was contemplating getting on the P14 list, don't think I'll bother. Let's see what P15 brings!
The P14 pictures that have "leaked" show it to be incohesive IMO It doesn't flow and looks too much like lots of parts of other cars
I get the 2 car comments on the 650, ATEOTD that's because it is
I would love an LT rear on mine, but it is such a great piece of kit I can easily get past that
I was contemplating getting on the P14 list, don't think I'll bother. Let's see what P15 brings!
There is clearly camouflaged body parts on the sides and back of the car, so I am surprised that nobody has picked this up.
There's no way that ugly reverse sweep from behind the front wheel to the back is going to part of the design language, that's purely a decoy piece of plastic.
Likewise the rear has fussy bits of fakery all over it.
Finally they have covered over the cold air intakes in front of the rear wheels; no way that 3.8 V8 can breathe without decent air coming in.
There's no way that ugly reverse sweep from behind the front wheel to the back is going to part of the design language, that's purely a decoy piece of plastic.
Likewise the rear has fussy bits of fakery all over it.
Finally they have covered over the cold air intakes in front of the rear wheels; no way that 3.8 V8 can breathe without decent air coming in.
mikey k said:
The M838T is not really McLarens engine. It's provided by Ricardo. It's an evolution of an old TWR race engine.
McLaren owns their engine designs but the engine is derived from a design developed by Nissan. Apparently, according to Car and Driver, the final McLaren engine is pretty unique from the donor engine it was designed off. Here's what they said:
Car and Driver said:
Early in this project, McLaren engineering director Neil Hannemann nominated an engine for the MP4-12C that was originally developed in Nissan’s racing department. Nissan and Infiniti had raced this spinoff from the Infiniti Q45 V-8 at Le Mans (1997 and 1999) and in two Indy Racing League series (1997–2005).
Other than a 93-mm (3.66 inches) bore dimension, little of Nissan’s VRH engine exists in today’s M838T V-8. Developed in collaboration with Ricardo, this is a compact 90-degree twin-turbo V-8 with aluminum construction, Nikasil bore surfaces, dual overhead cams, and variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing. The modest 3.8-liter displacement is McLaren’s nod to the environment.
From: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2012-mclaren-m...Other than a 93-mm (3.66 inches) bore dimension, little of Nissan’s VRH engine exists in today’s M838T V-8. Developed in collaboration with Ricardo, this is a compact 90-degree twin-turbo V-8 with aluminum construction, Nikasil bore surfaces, dual overhead cams, and variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing. The modest 3.8-liter displacement is McLaren’s nod to the environment.
Tenebrae said:
Let me get this right, you think that those big side intakes on a 650/675 are for engine breathing?
I would imagine that most of the area is used to cool down both engine radiators. The air boxes look like they sit further back in the engine bay.Would be handy to have an owner make decent pics as the general information available on this engine on the www is rather limited (I'm not an owner
)Edited by Thom on Tuesday 11th October 09:04
Thom said:
I would imagine that most of the area is used to cool down both engine radiators. The air boxes look like they sit further back in the engine bay.
Would be handy to have an owner make decent pics as the general information available on this engine on the www is rather limited (I'm not an owner)
Pics of what?Would be handy to have an owner make decent pics as the general information available on this engine on the www is rather limited (I'm not an owner
)Edited by Thom on Tuesday 11th October 09:04
I am an owner but have no idea what to take pictures of
Thom said:
I would imagine that most of the area is used to cool down both engine radiators. The air boxes look like they sit further back in the engine bay.
Yeah, either radiators or (more likely) intercoolers. They are definitely not intakes for engine induction, they would be like three times the size of the ones on Formula 1 cars if they were...Edited by Thom on Tuesday 11th October 09:04
Current Mclaren 6xx engines breathe through little intakes on the pillars just behind the side glass.
Here is picture from 12C :
I understand this is what the engine looks like with the various covers removed. The two large aluminim cores of the liquid-to-air intercoolers are visible on either sides. Hidden between them and the bodywork seem to be the airboxes, each large black plastic elbow leading down to compressors' inlets.
The intercoolers seem to share the same coolant as the engine, as suggested by both overflow hoses (with yellow tape) going to the expansion tank in the middle.
Where are the radiators that cool down the intercoolers located? In the front bumper?
Here is a picture from a 12C GT3 :
Most noticeable (functional) difference is the auxiliary expansion tank for the intercooling circuit.
And here is a pretty good picture showing the engine cell about complete :
There we clearly see the engine breaths air in to the airboxes from the two smallish openings taking air from "somewhere" up. The two large engine radiators are fed by the side inlets in the bodywork. The large piece of aluminium protruding at the front of the assembly is most likely the oil tank since the engine is dry-sumped.
I understand this is what the engine looks like with the various covers removed. The two large aluminim cores of the liquid-to-air intercoolers are visible on either sides. Hidden between them and the bodywork seem to be the airboxes, each large black plastic elbow leading down to compressors' inlets.
The intercoolers seem to share the same coolant as the engine, as suggested by both overflow hoses (with yellow tape) going to the expansion tank in the middle.
Where are the radiators that cool down the intercoolers located? In the front bumper?
Here is a picture from a 12C GT3 :
Most noticeable (functional) difference is the auxiliary expansion tank for the intercooling circuit.
And here is a pretty good picture showing the engine cell about complete :
There we clearly see the engine breaths air in to the airboxes from the two smallish openings taking air from "somewhere" up. The two large engine radiators are fed by the side inlets in the bodywork. The large piece of aluminium protruding at the front of the assembly is most likely the oil tank since the engine is dry-sumped.
Edited by Thom on Tuesday 11th October 20:12
MitchT said:
RamboLambo said:
Well I guess most people will only ever see the rear of a 650S so if you don't like it I can see why it would doubly hack you off lol
I like the rear of the 650S. That's the bit carried over from the 12C that looks good.RamboLambo said:
Personally, I think the issue with the 12C was the front bumper and headlights which the 650s addressed beautifully.
I liked the front of the 12C as it matched the rear. The front of the 650S looks like a squashed Peugeot and bears no resemblance to the rear. It would have at least been logical if the rear of the 650S had been redesigned too so the nose and tail didn't look like the ends of two different cars!
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