Hot Cakes in freezing weather

Hot Cakes in freezing weather

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hornbaek

3,670 posts

234 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
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Hi Mikey

Appreciate your comments - especially regarding Aston as I am a fellow victim, but if you need to discount a new car to the tune of 30k to get it out the door then basically you have misjudged either the market or your pricing strategy. The pricing policy in McLaren is shambles if you ask me and they have created a big problem for themselves in the future by not managing this better.

mikey k

13,011 posts

215 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
quotequote all
hornbaek said:
Hi Mikey

Appreciate your comments - especially regarding Aston as I am a fellow victim, but if you need to discount a new car to the tune of 30k to get it out the door then basically you have misjudged either the market or your pricing strategy. The pricing policy in McLaren is shambles if you ask me and they have created a big problem for themselves in the future by not managing this better.
wavey I remember you from the Aston forum
I got a 17% discount on one of the last 650 spiders, built to my spec, so a run out slot they needed to fill.
I also got 20% off one of the first customer specced V8 Vantage S roadsters.
The 650 is still worth 83% of what I paid for it after a year.
My Vantage S was worth ~70% when I looked at a V12V 12 months in.
Its early days for McLaren and residuals but the strengthening 12C prices, the recently annouced 12 year extended warranty and the fact MCL know they need to compete with Ferrari residuals are all good signs.
Take a look at 650 LeMans and 675 residuals. They will also support the more common MC's.

That said I'm not really that bothered (well not as much as Rambo! wink ) I've put 14k miles on mine in 12 months and loved every single one. No idea what I'd ever replace it with!

f430hunter

337 posts

204 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
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Hell this made me laugh Mclaren nowhere near Aston as far as pricing structure,i purchased over 10 astons during a 6 year period and never ever paid list,i was even getting discount on ltd edition cars,every manufacturer is at it inc ferrari,sorry chap but Mclaren need to sell cars like every other manufacturer.
In 2007 i managed to get 60k off a vanquish S,35k off v12 vantage manual in 2010 now llok at what those cars are fetching hell i wished i had bought more.

cheers shl
hornbaek said:
The amount of discount on a nearly new 650 is ridiculous and McLaren needs to adress this in order to make their brand aspirational. These cars were probably never sold at full price in the first place hence the big discounts for a young 2nd hand car which just tells you that they are nowhere near the Porsche, Ferrari or even Aston brand position.

hornbaek

3,670 posts

234 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
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f430hunter said:
Hell this made me laugh Mclaren nowhere near Aston as far as pricing structure,i purchased over 10 astons during a 6 year period and never ever paid list,i was even getting discount on ltd edition cars,every manufacturer is at it inc ferrari,sorry chap but Mclaren need to sell cars like every other manufacturer.
In 2007 i managed to get 60k off a vanquish S,35k off v12 vantage manual in 2010 now llok at what those cars are fetching hell i wished i had bought more.

cheers shl
hornbaek said:
The amount of discount on a nearly new 650 is ridiculous and McLaren needs to adress this in order to make their brand aspirational. These cars were probably never sold at full price in the first place hence the big discounts for a young 2nd hand car which just tells you that they are nowhere near the Porsche, Ferrari or even Aston brand position.
Both the Vantage S and the V12V manual have risen substantially in value - so is that not exactly the opposite to your point ?

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
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mikey k said:
Don't often see the "penis" wheels on a 650 wink
Special request from me rofl
I was insistent on them

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
quotequote all
When I bought the 650S spider new I was offered a 458 spider ex demo 3 month old under a 1,000 miles for £190k against £244 List and a brand new one built to my spec for March 2015 for £30k off list.

The difference is Ferrari "manage it" better.

As regards Aston Martin, I thought about buying a V12 Vantage 12 months earlier in 2013 and thank god I didn't as I would of lost about £50k in year one on the "deal" they offered me.

Agree McLaren need to sort out their pricing and marketing but in terms of product its the best out there as far as I'm concerned and I'm 25 years in the car industry and know a thing or two believe it or not.

I'm more than happy at my McLarens Residual performance after 2 years from new. Don't get me wrong its not like my 430 Scuderia in year 6 but its still bl00dy good retail to trade % wise

SL550M

589 posts

109 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
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In response to RL's point, I know of one Ferrari main dealer that's sold three 599s in the last month or so, which is good going. I'm biased, as I own a 599, but they look pretty fair value at around £120-130k I'd say.

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Tuesday 6th December 2016
quotequote all
SL550M said:
In response to RL's point, I know of one Ferrari main dealer that's sold three 599s in the last month or so, which is good going. I'm biased, as I own a 599, but they look pretty fair value at around £120-130k I'd say.
Yes I recall driving a grey and sabbia 2010 HGTE with 4,000 miles on it 3 years ago and to think they only wanted £120k for it at the time. It was a beauty but to big and heavy a GT car for me personally but a real V12 beast.

Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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RamboLambo said:
When I bought the 650S spider new I was offered a 458 spider ex demo 3 month old under a 1,000 miles for £190k against £244 List and a brand new one built to my spec for March 2015 for £30k off list.

The difference is Ferrari "manage it" better.

As regards Aston Martin, I thought about buying a V12 Vantage 12 months earlier in 2013 and thank god I didn't as I would of lost about £50k in year one on the "deal" they offered me.

Agree McLaren need to sort out their pricing and marketing but in terms of product its the best out there as far as I'm concerned and I'm 25 years in the car industry and know a thing or two believe it or not.

I'm more than happy at my McLarens Residual performance after 2 years from new. Don't get me wrong its not like my 430 Scuderia in year 6 but its still bl00dy good retail to trade % wise
Hardly the same thing, getting a discount on an end of run build slot compared to the £50k discount available on the 650S from the start

Try getting a discount on a new 488

ETA What was the base list price of the 650S ?


Edited by Jules360 on Wednesday 7th December 06:07

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
Jules360 said:
Hardly the same thing, getting a discount on an end of run build slot compared to the £50k discount available on the 650S from the start

Try getting a discount on a new 488

ETA What was the base list price of the 650S ?


Edited by Jules360 on Wednesday 7th December 06:07
A very reasonable £195k Coupe and £215k spider with most having £25k + of options specified.
With a max dealer margin of 15% there was never £50k discounts on 650S even on run out.
Early 650S order books were sold out so there was no point discounting a product in such demand as per 488 now.

If I couldn't supply my customer demand for 2 years I would increase production rather than pee customers off though idea
Only reason they don't is because of the massive margins they can make on current levels of production without further investment and increasing base costs.

lowndes

807 posts

213 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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I have some sympathy for McLaren over their pricing.

MTC is a substantial infrastructure investment that has to be paid for somehow and no doubt the road car division will be expected to make their contribution. In common with other long term multi phase projects there is a balance to be struck between Phase 1 being priced ab initio to show a profit even if later phases are never built, and the reality that if Phase 1 carries the whole initial infrastructure the enterprise will never get off the ground. Enter the creative accountants.

When this dilemma reaches the showroom there is a limit to what dealers can deliver given their operating margins, and as sales slow and the models enter runout phase the factory may take the view that cashflow is more important than profit and put a metaphorical shoulder to the wheel with further discounts.

At some point in the 650S model cycle McL started to bundle expensive options into Packs such as Sport, Luxury, Security etc. In the case of my VR 650S spider which I specced for delivery in April 2016 the price came down from £251k if the options were priced individually to a list price including packs of £242k. I paid £200k OTR.

I am very happy with the car which in terms of pure driving pleasure I rate equally with my 997.2 GT3. I can think of no higher accolade.



Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
RamboLambo said:
Jules360 said:
Hardly the same thing, getting a discount on an end of run build slot compared to the £50k discount available on the 650S from the start

Try getting a discount on a new 488

ETA What was the base list price of the 650S ?


Edited by Jules360 on Wednesday 7th December 06:07
A very reasonable £195k Coupe and £215k spider with most having £25k + of options specified.
With a max dealer margin of 15% there was never £50k discounts on 650S even on run out.
Early 650S order books were sold out so there was no point discounting a product in such demand as per 488 now.

If I couldn't supply my customer demand for 2 years I would increase production rather than pee customers off though idea
Only reason they don't is because of the massive margins they can make on current levels of production without further investment and increasing base costs.
But hasn't it been established that 240k spiders were being sold new for 190k ? That's a 50k discount in my book.

Out of interest, what options does yours have for it to have been 282k list ? You must have ticked every box.

Oh, and if I were Ferrari with a 2 year wait list, i'd increase price, not production. Demand is very inelastic.

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
lowndes said:
I have some sympathy for McLaren over their pricing.

MTC is a substantial infrastructure investment that has to be paid for somehow and no doubt the road car division will be expected to make their contribution. In common with other long term multi phase projects there is a balance to be struck between Phase 1 being priced ab initio to show a profit even if later phases are never built, and the reality that if Phase 1 carries the whole initial infrastructure the enterprise will never get off the ground. Enter the creative accountants.

When this dilemma reaches the showroom there is a limit to what dealers can deliver given their operating margins, and as sales slow and the models enter runout phase the factory may take the view that cashflow is more important than profit and put a metaphorical shoulder to the wheel with further discounts.

At some point in the 650S model cycle McL started to bundle expensive options into Packs such as Sport, Luxury, Security etc. In the case of my VR 650S spider which I specced for delivery in April 2016 the price came down from £251k if the options were priced individually to a list price including packs of £242k. I paid £200k OTR.

I am very happy with the car which in terms of pure driving pleasure I rate equally with my 997.2 GT3. I can think of no higher accolade.
So you did very well with a £40k discount in run out phase

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
Jules360 said:
But hasn't it been established that 240k spiders were being sold new for 190k ? That's a 50k discount in my book.

Out of interest, what options does yours have for it to have been 282k list ? You must have ticked every box.

Oh, and if I were Ferrari with a 2 year wait list, i'd increase price, not production. Demand is very inelastic.
Your answer is above. No they have never been sold below £200k and are worth £180k 2 years later.
Show me a regular production supercar with those residuals

longtail

16 posts

91 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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Rambo Lambo, sorry to contradict your experience, but I can assure you that a new stock 650s spider has been sold new for less than 200k. I also know that you will secure a used car for less than 180k.

RamboLambo

Original Poster:

4,843 posts

169 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
longtail said:
Rambo Lambo, sorry to contradict your experience, but I can assure you that a new stock 650s spider has been sold new for less than 200k. I also know that you will secure a used car for less than 180k.
What in your dreams rolleyes

I need not feed the trolls and direct you to the Ferrari Discount store

andrew

9,953 posts

191 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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mikey k said:
RamboLambo said:
I'm feeling the love for Volcano red guys


Don't often see the "penis" wheels on a 650 wink
yeah. it's usually behind the wheel biggrin

Jules360

1,949 posts

201 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
RamboLambo said:
longtail said:
Rambo Lambo, sorry to contradict your experience, but I can assure you that a new stock 650s spider has been sold new for less than 200k. I also know that you will secure a used car for less than 180k.
What in your dreams rolleyes

I need not feed the trolls and direct you to the Ferrari Discount store
Which bit are you disputing ? The new one sub 200k i assume,m as a quick glance in the classifieds tells you that sub 170k is easily achievable since there are about 20 cars for sale sub 180k

longtail

16 posts

91 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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Not a troll or a customer of discount stores, I report only what I know first hand having owned more than 1 Mclaren.
By the way I am also not asleep, or willing to trade insults.

martinvantage

320 posts

178 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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I rarely post on this forum having myself had a bad McLaren experience, instead preferring to maintain relationships with Aston 'Martin and Ferrari where my personal experiences have been better. I do know of Longtails experience and while it may not sit well with mumbo jumbo in his carbon tub perhaps his good fortune is just that. As for residuals they only matter when you sell, residuals re always better in theory than in practice.
For rambos benefit, yes my gt8 will be old school , the only carbon fibre will be in trim, it won't have a turbo it will have a manual gearbox, but I will love and care not a joy for residual value while enjoying it. We are all different
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