Well here it is - the 720S
Discussion
Boshly said:
The main point I was making was that the spoiler isn't switched on or off individually but linked to the aero; you have extrapolated that into putting Aero on for the majority is "solely" for posing.
you lost me a bit there I have to admit. It's just a more fancy way of saying putting up the spoiler by saying it's about turning the aero on surely?If I recall the product presentation the wing angle is linked to throttle input or brake pressure so the wing does flap about a bit based on what you're doing if it's up. How much real world impact it makes I don't know but it's mildly entertaining anyway. I'd genuinely like to know how much impact the wing has on braking as well tbh. On Sportauto 200-0 tests, the Mclaren cars have definitely not done particularly well even allowing for a less sticky tyre in the corsas being used.
As an aside I think the rear wing rising under braking has caused some calibration issues with the car's braking to be honest. In theory it shifts the centre of pressure rearward and allows the rear brakes to be worked harder but my personal belief is that together with not particularly great abs, it's part of the reason why the 12c (and 650 to a lesser extent) can feel worryingly light at the rear when under hard braking (ie at ABS threshold). never quite figured out if that feeling was due to the wing or the hydraulic suspension though but it's my pet theory anyway....
isaldiri said:
you lost me a bit there I have to admit. It's just a more fancy way of saying putting up the spoiler by saying it's about turning the aero on surely?
If I recall the product presentation the wing angle is linked to throttle input or brake pressure so the wing does flap about a bit based on what you're doing if it's up. How much real world impact it makes I don't know but it's mildly entertaining anyway. I'd genuinely like to know how much impact the wing has on braking as well tbh. On Sportauto 200-0 tests, the Mclaren cars have definitely not done particularly well even allowing for a less sticky tyre in the corsas being used.
As an aside I think the rear wing rising under braking has caused some calibration issues with the car's braking to be honest. In theory it shifts the centre of pressure rearward and allows the rear brakes to be worked harder but my personal belief is that together with not particularly great abs, it's part of the reason why the 12c (and 650 to a lesser extent) can feel worryingly light at the rear when under hard braking (ie at ABS threshold). never quite figured out if that feeling was due to the wing or the hydraulic suspension though but it's my pet theory anyway....
These things are subjective from the seat but I think I've felt the airbrake doing it's stuff. Under heavy braking from high speed I can feel more drag kick in when the brake pops up, could all be in my head though.If I recall the product presentation the wing angle is linked to throttle input or brake pressure so the wing does flap about a bit based on what you're doing if it's up. How much real world impact it makes I don't know but it's mildly entertaining anyway. I'd genuinely like to know how much impact the wing has on braking as well tbh. On Sportauto 200-0 tests, the Mclaren cars have definitely not done particularly well even allowing for a less sticky tyre in the corsas being used.
As an aside I think the rear wing rising under braking has caused some calibration issues with the car's braking to be honest. In theory it shifts the centre of pressure rearward and allows the rear brakes to be worked harder but my personal belief is that together with not particularly great abs, it's part of the reason why the 12c (and 650 to a lesser extent) can feel worryingly light at the rear when under hard braking (ie at ABS threshold). never quite figured out if that feeling was due to the wing or the hydraulic suspension though but it's my pet theory anyway....
br d said:
These things are subjective from the seat but I think I've felt the airbrake doing it's stuff. Under heavy braking from high speed I can feel more drag kick in when the brake pops up, could all be in my head though.
I think the air brake is noticeable and these things hunker down and stop on a sixpence.Its so cool seeing it up in the rear view mirror I can't imagine how good it is from behind.
Its these sort of details that really do make it a SUPERcar. I love the single central windscreen wiper as well. Shame that's been lost on the 570S
isaldiri said:
Boshly said:
The main point I was making was that the spoiler isn't switched on or off individually but linked to the aero; you have extrapolated that into putting Aero on for the majority is "solely" for posing.
you lost me a bit there I have to admit. It's just a more fancy way of saying putting up the spoiler by saying it's about turning the aero on surely?.......
The accusation was (simplified!) "you've put your spoiler up your you poser."
I replied (simplified) "you can't simply switch spoiler on and off to pose, its related to the active aero."
You then stated (simplified and exaggerated) "ah but aero is pointless under 700mph and even on track not sure it does anything - it's only used to pose"
So irrespective of your point and its validity or not, most of us use the aero as we think it does make a difference and we have simply switched active aero on, as opposed to flicking a button to flick spoiler up. You have now interpreted that as posing.
So whilst I understand and see your point of view (though don't agree with your generalizations or necessarily your assertions on efficacy of aero) I still don't think people are switching active aero on to pose; if you're right they are switching it on under the mistaken presumption it makes a difference when it doesn't. As such my original point stands IMHO of course
As to your points on the way the active aero or more specifically air brake works or doesn't I really don't know. Like Brad I seem to feel that it does but that might just be my mind playing tricks on me. With all due respect to you I'd rather at this stage have faith in the plethora of McLaren Engineers than a guy on the Internet, especially when the car has been something of a revelation in the handling department versus its peers. Not saying you're wrong just playing the safer odds
Boshly said:
Not sure why that's difficult to follow?
The accusation was (simplified!) "you've put your spoiler up your you poser."
I replied (simplified) "you can't simply switch spoiler on and off to pose, its related to the active aero."
You then stated (simplified and exaggerated) "ah but aero is pointless under 700mph and even on track not sure it does anything - it's only used to pose"
So irrespective of your point and its validity or not, most of us use the aero as we think it does make a difference and we have simply switched active aero on, as opposed to flicking a button to flick spoiler up. You have now interpreted that as posing.
So whilst I understand and see your point of view (though don't agree with your generalizations or necessarily your assertions on efficacy of aero) I still don't think people are switching active aero on to pose; if you're right they are switching it on under the mistaken presumption it makes a difference when it doesn't. As such my original point stands IMHO of course
As to your points on the way the active aero or more specifically air brake works or doesn't I really don't know. Like Brad I seem to feel that it does but that might just be my mind playing tricks on me. With all due respect to you I'd rather at this stage have faith in the plethora of McLaren Engineers than a guy on the Internet, especially when the car has been something of a revelation in the handling department versus its peers. Not saying you're wrong just playing the safer odds
do you really believe most people put aero mode on for its real or otherwise dynamic benefits rather than simply for looks.....? The accusation was (simplified!) "you've put your spoiler up your you poser."
I replied (simplified) "you can't simply switch spoiler on and off to pose, its related to the active aero."
You then stated (simplified and exaggerated) "ah but aero is pointless under 700mph and even on track not sure it does anything - it's only used to pose"
So irrespective of your point and its validity or not, most of us use the aero as we think it does make a difference and we have simply switched active aero on, as opposed to flicking a button to flick spoiler up. You have now interpreted that as posing.
So whilst I understand and see your point of view (though don't agree with your generalizations or necessarily your assertions on efficacy of aero) I still don't think people are switching active aero on to pose; if you're right they are switching it on under the mistaken presumption it makes a difference when it doesn't. As such my original point stands IMHO of course
As to your points on the way the active aero or more specifically air brake works or doesn't I really don't know. Like Brad I seem to feel that it does but that might just be my mind playing tricks on me. With all due respect to you I'd rather at this stage have faith in the plethora of McLaren Engineers than a guy on the Internet, especially when the car has been something of a revelation in the handling department versus its peers. Not saying you're wrong just playing the safer odds
Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against putting the wing up if people like the way it looks as it's their car after all but saying it's about the 'active aero' is pretty hilarious. One tends to notice every sports car with a movable spoiler seems to be put up most of the time whether Porsche/R8 etc. Mclaren are no different.
Edited by isaldiri on Thursday 16th February 20:07
What? Does that thing on the back actually serve a purpose? The dealer specifically told me it's better for posing with it raised. Didn't bother explaining what all this aero stuff was about. Really surprised. Didn't expect some startup company like Mclaren to actually put tech into their cars. Would have expected only companies like Ferrari that have F1 experience to have the know how and want to be on the forefront with their technology 
isaldiri said:
do you really believe most people put aero mode on for its real or otherwise dynamic benefits rather than simply for looks.....?
YesIsaldiri said:
Don't get me wrong, I've nothing against putting the wing up if people like the way it looks as it's their car after all but saying it's about the 'active aero' is pretty hilarious. One tends to notice every sports car with a movable spoiler seems to be put up most of the time whether Porsche/R8 etc. Mclaren are no different.
Laugh away to your hearts content. See my previous answer and the honorable gentlemans post before this one. I have more faith in McLarens (and Ferrari's and Porsche's ...) engineers than your assertion that "it's all hocus pocus" and a posers paradise. I am pretty confident that most Mclaren drivers switch the active aero on for its perceived benefit. Maybe I'm just less cynical in my outlook on the world Ps I don't "put the wing up" I switch on the active aero
Boshly said:
isaldiri said:
do you really believe most people put aero mode on for its real or otherwise dynamic benefits rather than simply for looks.....?
YesWell I guess I'm just a bit less likely to believe marketing spiel. Glad to know that kind of stuff clearly does work for the manufacturers....
isaldiri said:
Ok.
Well I guess I'm just a bit less likely to believe marketing spiel. Glad to know that kind of stuff clearly does work for the manufacturers....
Well I guess I'm just a bit less likely to believe marketing spiel. Glad to know that kind of stuff clearly does work for the manufacturers....
This discussion and your POV has of course got me thinking and you're at least right inasmuch as in town it would make no difference whatsoever; but I'll still switch it on when i first start driving as I do believe it has a positive effect (wonder how that's measurable?) when driving briskly on open amd faster roads ..... and of course I'll now also know I'm posing when in town
isaldiri said:
Boshly said:
isaldiri said:
do you really believe most people put aero mode on for its real or otherwise dynamic benefits rather than simply for looks.....?
YesWell I guess I'm just a bit less likely to believe marketing spiel. Glad to know that kind of stuff clearly does work for the manufacturers....
MDL111 said:
am with Isaldiri here, I somehow also have a tough time believing that active aero (or any aero for that matter including a GT3Rs wing or a Ferrari what not aero) will have any material effect when driving on a country road at 70 mph .... I do believe it could help a little when doing 160 mph, not sure how often you guys corner at those speeds though. I certainly don't, and only hit the speeds on straights.
left hander after the bridge at dottinger hohe - 160mph easy wing or no wing I absolutely do not have the balls to keep my foot in unlike a friend though who definitely does have the spoiler raised! On track there is a difference in my experience. On the road when by and large one is nowhere even close to the car's overall grip limits and the maths suggests the car is producing very little downforce...well.... If people think so and get a positive benefit from it, that's good as well i suppose.
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