12C 'v' 570S 'v' 570GT real world comparison
Discussion
At last I have had a chance to drive a 570S and a 570GT and compare them to my 12C. I will attempt a summary below but firstly many thanks to McBrum for such a great day.
Firstly I tried a LHD Mc-Orange 570S. The car was outstanding, simply amazing in every respect. So how did it compare to my early 12C? Well the gearbox was faster and smoother and the steering had slightly more weight. The whole car felt very grounded and stable and I liked it a lot. At the top end the 12C is very slightly faster but I guess it’s only noticeable in back to back driving.
I came away thinking the 570S was a slightly better drive than my 12C so I followed up with re-tracing, as best I could, the route we took in my 12C. I concluded, after driving my 12C, that I was mistaken and have found the answer and it all comes down to first impressions which as we know mean such a lot.
To go fast a car first has to go slow, it has to pull away and trundle through a 30mph limit before reaching the nirvana of the national speed limit. In this initial phase the 570S has the 12C beaten, it is so smooth and the gear changes are ever so slightly faster so I thought that when we got up to speed the 570S was the better car. At low speed the 12C brakes are less easy to modulate and the 570S modulated better.
However when you get over 30mph the 12C is every bit as smooth and fast changing and the steering as communicative as the 570S and to cap it all the 12C is a bit quicker at the top of the rev range.
The 12C’s low speed drive-ability can’t quite match the 570S but once out of town the 12C comes alive and is more than a match for the 570S and very slightly quicker to boot.
I couldn’t tell much difference is handling / ride / suspension between the 12C & 570S despite the different set up. Also the engine / exhaust sounds were all very similar despite different sports & normal exhausts on each car.
So I discovered I am more than happy with my 12C and actually its relative ‘bargain’ status is well deserved. If I wanted a new car I could do no better than the 570S, it is by far the best ‘new’ car I have ever driven. However is the low speed drive-ability worth the additional £50k you would need to find for a 570S over a 12C?
On a personal note I also made the following observations, the 12C had comfier seats, the access, despite the ‘cut out’ tub was no easier on the 570S and felt more awkward due to the larger seat bolstering. The 12C interior seemed better finished than the 570S but that could be down to the individual specification. The 12C also had better visibility by quite some margin. I also prefer the old round tachometer to the new graphics. However the 570 has sun visors that work the right way around.
If they were the same price it would be a very, very tough decision. I think I would stick with the 12C for the looks and hanker after the 570S low speed behaviour. However they are not the same price.
And what of the 570GT? To me the most beautiful car in the current line up and before today would have been my choice, esp. in Volcano Red which is an MSO paint on the 570! However everything is not quite as honed as the ‘S’, I could feel the softer damping, slower steering and slower gear changes and despite its obvious beauty if I bought one I would always be thinking I should have got the ‘S’ as it’s just that bit more sharper. After I asked about the differences and was told the GT was only 2% slower in the steering and the gear changes in the 570S had ignition cut in sport and some form of torque surge in track which the GT does not. Oh but that glass roof! Sublime.
As an object of beauty and for touring the 570GT would be unbeatable and each car has its purpose it’s just I am more sports orientated.
I am really pleased I had the chance to try all 3 back to back, they are all outstanding cars and I came away with 3 thoughts:-
1. Why can’t the 12C have a gearbox software upgrade?
2. The 570 GTS, LT and spider will be awesome!
3. The 12C is an absolute bargain!
Please remember above is my personal opinion and taste and all the cars are amazing; I was just trying to explore and explain the differences as I saw them and before the inevitable 650S questions pop up, please don't, I haven't driven one and can't comment, this write up is specifically related to the 12C / 570S / 570GT and not any other McLaren, thanks.
Firstly I tried a LHD Mc-Orange 570S. The car was outstanding, simply amazing in every respect. So how did it compare to my early 12C? Well the gearbox was faster and smoother and the steering had slightly more weight. The whole car felt very grounded and stable and I liked it a lot. At the top end the 12C is very slightly faster but I guess it’s only noticeable in back to back driving.
I came away thinking the 570S was a slightly better drive than my 12C so I followed up with re-tracing, as best I could, the route we took in my 12C. I concluded, after driving my 12C, that I was mistaken and have found the answer and it all comes down to first impressions which as we know mean such a lot.
To go fast a car first has to go slow, it has to pull away and trundle through a 30mph limit before reaching the nirvana of the national speed limit. In this initial phase the 570S has the 12C beaten, it is so smooth and the gear changes are ever so slightly faster so I thought that when we got up to speed the 570S was the better car. At low speed the 12C brakes are less easy to modulate and the 570S modulated better.
However when you get over 30mph the 12C is every bit as smooth and fast changing and the steering as communicative as the 570S and to cap it all the 12C is a bit quicker at the top of the rev range.
The 12C’s low speed drive-ability can’t quite match the 570S but once out of town the 12C comes alive and is more than a match for the 570S and very slightly quicker to boot.
I couldn’t tell much difference is handling / ride / suspension between the 12C & 570S despite the different set up. Also the engine / exhaust sounds were all very similar despite different sports & normal exhausts on each car.
So I discovered I am more than happy with my 12C and actually its relative ‘bargain’ status is well deserved. If I wanted a new car I could do no better than the 570S, it is by far the best ‘new’ car I have ever driven. However is the low speed drive-ability worth the additional £50k you would need to find for a 570S over a 12C?
On a personal note I also made the following observations, the 12C had comfier seats, the access, despite the ‘cut out’ tub was no easier on the 570S and felt more awkward due to the larger seat bolstering. The 12C interior seemed better finished than the 570S but that could be down to the individual specification. The 12C also had better visibility by quite some margin. I also prefer the old round tachometer to the new graphics. However the 570 has sun visors that work the right way around.
If they were the same price it would be a very, very tough decision. I think I would stick with the 12C for the looks and hanker after the 570S low speed behaviour. However they are not the same price.
And what of the 570GT? To me the most beautiful car in the current line up and before today would have been my choice, esp. in Volcano Red which is an MSO paint on the 570! However everything is not quite as honed as the ‘S’, I could feel the softer damping, slower steering and slower gear changes and despite its obvious beauty if I bought one I would always be thinking I should have got the ‘S’ as it’s just that bit more sharper. After I asked about the differences and was told the GT was only 2% slower in the steering and the gear changes in the 570S had ignition cut in sport and some form of torque surge in track which the GT does not. Oh but that glass roof! Sublime.
As an object of beauty and for touring the 570GT would be unbeatable and each car has its purpose it’s just I am more sports orientated.
I am really pleased I had the chance to try all 3 back to back, they are all outstanding cars and I came away with 3 thoughts:-
1. Why can’t the 12C have a gearbox software upgrade?
2. The 570 GTS, LT and spider will be awesome!
3. The 12C is an absolute bargain!
Please remember above is my personal opinion and taste and all the cars are amazing; I was just trying to explore and explain the differences as I saw them and before the inevitable 650S questions pop up, please don't, I haven't driven one and can't comment, this write up is specifically related to the 12C / 570S / 570GT and not any other McLaren, thanks.
Thanks indeed for the great write up OP. I have a 12C too which I bought pre-owned at the end of last year from McLaren Ascot (see below). I've been wondering just how further advanced the 570S is over the 12C, and I'm glad to hear from you not enough to justify spending another 30-40k on making the "upgrade". I really can't think of another supercar on the market right now that compares with the performance of the 12C for the price? Both 12C and 570S, however, get a huge thumbs up from me!
I must say that this writeup is 100% spot on!
Have had my 12C for coming up 5 years now (owned since it had 759 miles on the clock) and have put around 12,500 miles on her, most of which was on various McLaren Owners Cub driving holidays along with every other model of Mac produced.
My 12C is factory standard with the exception of Soft Close Doors and a set of 720S wheels and MPS4S tyres (245 section fronts instead of the standard 12C 235 section) which does improve handling a little.
Having mow driven my 12C, 570S (track pack with P1 seats), 570S (standard car), 650S, 720S and 720 Spider - there is no way that I would pay (£20k - 50k) to "upgrade" my 12C as there is an almost imperceptible increase in performance (720S is a tad faster but 570S not so) on the road as they got the 12C absolutely right first time (my car has always been under official McWarranty so any niggles have been sorted).
I cannot think of another car under £120k that I would swap my 12C for making them an absolute steal!
Might change my mind when I test drive the Artura but then that's an even bigger cost to upgrade to.
Just my 2p worth!
Have had my 12C for coming up 5 years now (owned since it had 759 miles on the clock) and have put around 12,500 miles on her, most of which was on various McLaren Owners Cub driving holidays along with every other model of Mac produced.
My 12C is factory standard with the exception of Soft Close Doors and a set of 720S wheels and MPS4S tyres (245 section fronts instead of the standard 12C 235 section) which does improve handling a little.
Having mow driven my 12C, 570S (track pack with P1 seats), 570S (standard car), 650S, 720S and 720 Spider - there is no way that I would pay (£20k - 50k) to "upgrade" my 12C as there is an almost imperceptible increase in performance (720S is a tad faster but 570S not so) on the road as they got the 12C absolutely right first time (my car has always been under official McWarranty so any niggles have been sorted).
I cannot think of another car under £120k that I would swap my 12C for making them an absolute steal!
Might change my mind when I test drive the Artura but then that's an even bigger cost to upgrade to.
Just my 2p worth!
Sarnie said:
macdeb said:
I can see 570's dropping below 12c price point.
12c owners have been saying this for 5 years. Rose tinted glasses and all that........
I think 12C/570 prices are probably being propped up by newer R8s (and maybe older Gallardos) at the lower end. It's that step up in 'specialness' or modernity. Not sure we'll see a sub £70k asking price on a 570 this winter, but it will be very close with some haggling.
Paul
Pioneer said:
Same, in fact was looking at the house for a while before the McL 675 is quite a step-up though, still got it?
Quite a thread resurrection, 5 years! I had forgotten all about it. 675 is quite a step-up though, still got it?Not my house, was a hotel somewhere.
12C 'v' 675LT is a whole new thread. The 675LT is a completely different car, so much so it would be easy to make a case for owning both and indeed many do. The 12C's forte is its usability, speed, classic understated looks and shear speed. The12C has old style turbos which really fizz at the top end, more so than the 650S and other McLaren's, Its quite old skool in its power delivery which makes it exciting. The 650S has more mid range and torque that gives it more mid range but you cant sense the top end as much.
For the 675LT McLaren could not extract the power they wanted in the way they wanted so its actually a different engine, has more in common with a 570S engine as a starting point then wound up to 11 with many bespoke parts, about 60% different. Many things in the 675LT are different, a lot of the components are from the P1 as I just found out when I needed new suspension arms! The steering is also P1 rack.
If the 12C is a smooth operator the 675LT is a connected, analogue feeling near hyper car. Everything about it feels connected to the road, the steering, suspension, brakes all work together and allow perfect modulation and feedback. It is a real drivers car. The engine is a masterpiece and has so much power especially in ESC DYN mode. And it manages to get all its power down too, quite astonishing. People often say cars are too fast for the road but in the 675LT you can use the power. It's is as fast as you (well me anyway) would ever want a car to be but also In a chassis that allows all the power to be exploited. I haven't driven a better car since the 675LT was revealed and doubt I ever will with increasing electrification and noise / nannying legislation. It is one of the peak cars ever made that we will unfortunately probably never see again. Like Queen at Live Aid I doubt the 675LT and its ilk will ever be bettered.
That's it in a nutshell.
Edited by Bispal on Friday 9th December 11:42
I sat in a 540C the other day, I was really surprised how crappy and cheap it felt inside - like a Ford Fiesta.
The 12C interior quality really is aging very well, as per 650S.
Indeed the 12C exterior design is aging gracefully also - much more subtle, and not everyone will want that from their supercar.
But, at £70k they represent phenomenal value for 620PS in 1,350KG & I think the cost of ownership is becoming less of an issue with decent independents around.
The 12C interior quality really is aging very well, as per 650S.
Indeed the 12C exterior design is aging gracefully also - much more subtle, and not everyone will want that from their supercar.
But, at £70k they represent phenomenal value for 620PS in 1,350KG & I think the cost of ownership is becoming less of an issue with decent independents around.
Zippee said:
Bispal said:
Great write up. Friends of mine has a black 12c and to me it is still the best looking Looks a lot like Ettington Hall near Stratford upon Avon as well.
it was a great day, almost 6 years ago now. Funny how the 570s was £50k more then and now they are about the same price. 
Bispal said:
Pioneer said:
Same, in fact was looking at the house for a while before the McL 675 is quite a step-up though, still got it?
Quite a thread resurrection, 5 years! I had forgotten all about it. 675 is quite a step-up though, still got it?Not my house, was a hotel somewhere.
12C 'v' 675LT is a whole new thread. The 675LT is a completely different car, so much so it would be easy to make a case for owning both and indeed many do. The 12C's forte is its usability, speed, classic understated looks and shear speed. The12C has old style turbos which really fizz at the top end, more so than the 650S and other McLaren's, Its quite old skool in its power delivery which makes it exciting. The 650S has more mid range and torque that gives it more mid range but you cant sense the top end as much.
For the 675LT McLaren could not extract the power they wanted in the way they wanted so its actually a different engine, has more in common with a 570S engine as a starting point then wound up to 11 with many bespoke parts, about 60% different. Many things in the 675LT are different, a lot of the components are from the P1 as I just found out when I needed new suspension arms! The steering is also P1 rack.
If the 12C is a smooth operator the 675LT is a connected, analogue feeling near hyper car. Everything about it feels connected to the road, the steering, suspension, brakes all work together and allow perfect modulation and feedback. It is a real drivers car. The engine is a masterpiece and has so much power especially in ESC DYN mode. And it manages to get all its power down too, quite astonishing. People often say cars are too fast for the road but in the 675LT you can use the power. It's is as fast as you (well me anyway) would ever want a car to be but also In a chassis that allows all the power to be exploited. I haven't driven a better car since the 675LT was revealed and doubt I ever will with increasing electrification and noise / nannying legislation. It is one of the peak cars ever made that we will unfortunately probably never see again. Like Queen at Live Aid I doubt the 675LT and its ilk will ever be bettered.
That's it in a nutshell.
Edited by Bispal on Friday 9th December 11:42
I recall you banging the drum a fair bit about the 675 when I had my 650, and always seemed to think 'give it a rest; there is no way its worth double or triple the price'.
However, now with having one, you were bang on the money.
All macs are fantastic, but I personally do not think they shall surpass that peak moment when they rolled out the 675.
Others shall be and are faster, but like a GTO, it doesn't matter.
The fact that it is a track based special but it is just as happy pootling about going to the shops or town driving with no notable discomfort from the 650 is just incredible; compare that to speziales, pistas or GT3RS.
Numbers in the UK very small so the brucie bonus of having no worries of losing money is the icing on the cake.
Wheelspinning said:
Hi Bispal
I recall you banging the drum a fair bit about the 675 when I had my 650, and always seemed to think 'give it a rest; there is no way its worth double or triple the price'.
However, now with having one, you were bang on the money.
All macs are fantastic, but I personally do not think they shall surpass that peak moment when they rolled out the 675.
Others shall be and are faster, but like a GTO, it doesn't matter.
The fact that it is a track based special but it is just as happy pootling about going to the shops or town driving with no notable discomfort from the 650 is just incredible; compare that to speziales, pistas or GT3RS.
Numbers in the UK very small so the brucie bonus of having no worries of losing money is the icing on the cake.
Yes they really are peak McLaren, and apologies I do blow their trumpet a little too often. However the other P11 cars are all awesome, 12C, 650s and P1. I was never a fan of the aesthetics of the sports series cars outside or inside but can't deny they are brilliant cars to drive. The 720s I think is stunning on the outside but I'm not a fan of the digital dash that flips, just seems like a gimmick to me, but again its an amazing car to drive. I am a firm P11 fan, to me 12C / 650s / 675LT are the cream of the crop. I would love a 12C spider alongside my 675LT but not sure I could stomach the £10k pa warranties. That's a whole 986 Boxster S.....I recall you banging the drum a fair bit about the 675 when I had my 650, and always seemed to think 'give it a rest; there is no way its worth double or triple the price'.
However, now with having one, you were bang on the money.
All macs are fantastic, but I personally do not think they shall surpass that peak moment when they rolled out the 675.
Others shall be and are faster, but like a GTO, it doesn't matter.
The fact that it is a track based special but it is just as happy pootling about going to the shops or town driving with no notable discomfort from the 650 is just incredible; compare that to speziales, pistas or GT3RS.
Numbers in the UK very small so the brucie bonus of having no worries of losing money is the icing on the cake.
akadk said:
I sat in a 540C the other day, I was really surprised how crappy and cheap it felt inside - like a Ford Fiesta.
The 12C interior quality really is aging very well, as per 650S.
Indeed the 12C exterior design is aging gracefully also - much more subtle, and not everyone will want that from their supercar.
But, at £70k they represent phenomenal value for 620PS in 1,350KG & I think the cost of ownership is becoming less of an issue with decent independents around.
I think Top Gear did a lot of prospective owners a favour by always complaining the 12c was “dull” (I.e it didn’t catch fire, didn’t cripple you with the ergonomics and it was a practical form of transport) compared to the alternatives from Maranello or Sant’Agata - the reality is that the lack of “flash” image and the relatively understated looks mean it flies under a lot of people’s radar.The 12C interior quality really is aging very well, as per 650S.
Indeed the 12C exterior design is aging gracefully also - much more subtle, and not everyone will want that from their supercar.
But, at £70k they represent phenomenal value for 620PS in 1,350KG & I think the cost of ownership is becoming less of an issue with decent independents around.
Nothing i can think off is as quick, as good to drive, as practical and has already hit the bottom of its depreciation curve. You’d pay more for a ratty f430 than for a decent 12c, which makes the McLaren the bargain of the century.
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