So who's getting an i3?
Discussion
I bought the cheapest <1year old i3 in the BMW network (at a little over £16K) so it's poverty spec, except for the "Lodge" interior option. The only thing i miss is the ProNav, mainly to have the wider screen which therefore has the split screen option (nav on left, entertainment on right). Having this option in my 335 i miss it in my i3. But if i hadn't got it in my 335, would i notice it in the i3? In all honesty, probably not......
hornetrider said:
Wider screen, looks great. Not up on the latest bits in particular someone else might be better to advise.
When I was looking there was a pack which gave pro media, HK and something else, forget now.
There's the Sport Pack which includes nicer alloys, LED headlights, darkened rear glass and HK audio upgrade. Why it's called the Sport Pack I have no idea but well worth having in my opinion. Not fussed on the dark glass but wanted the other items but worked out cheaper getting the pack.When I was looking there was a pack which gave pro media, HK and something else, forget now.
JumboBeef- Seat comfort is fine albeit not as comfy or supportive as the sports seats I had in my 1 series beforehand - not had a sore lower back after long journeys as I have done in some other cars though.
My commute also involves plenty of twisty county roads and, as long as you realise you can't chuck the car into the bends, there is fun to be had.
Aux heater is fot the BEV model only.
Edited by Goatex on Sunday 15th January 23:31
JumboBeef said:
Thanks.
Well if aux heater is not available I'll not worry about it
What mpg does the ICE give? I go to Scotland a few times a year, 500 miles each way. Once batteries are used what mpg will I get on the REX? Is it cheaper to use the REX or plug in at a service station?
Thanks.
just shy of 70mph continuous on the m/way with no battery assistance.Well if aux heater is not available I'll not worry about it
What mpg does the ICE give? I go to Scotland a few times a year, 500 miles each way. Once batteries are used what mpg will I get on the REX? Is it cheaper to use the REX or plug in at a service station?
Thanks.
paying the £6 to charge on the services is half the price of the petrol through the Rex for the same mileage, small tank of 9 litres is a bit limiting though if you are station hopping as the petrol range is only about 60 miles.
Although technically you can go to scotland in it, i imagine the practicalities will be a bit stressful.
Goatex said:
as long as you realise you can't chuck the car into the bends, there is fun to be had.
What?? I have an 18mile B road commute and mine gets "chucked into bends" a LOT!! ;-)There's a surprising amount of grip, and in the wet it slides really progressively. The only issue is the tyres start to tuck in a bit in the dry at the standard pressures and the steering is horribly light and lifeless, but the actual dynamics are really pretty good. In fact, it reminds me of an old air cooled 911, with light steering and the noddy nose/diagonal corkscrew style pitching .....
Max_Torque said:
Goatex said:
as long as you realise you can't chuck the car into the bends, there is fun to be had.
What?? I have an 18mile B road commute and mine gets "chucked into bends" a LOT!! ;-)There's a surprising amount of grip, and in the wet it slides really progressively. The only issue is the tyres start to tuck in a bit in the dry at the standard pressures and the steering is horribly light and lifeless, but the actual dynamics are really pretty good. In fact, it reminds me of an old air cooled 911, with light steering and the noddy nose/diagonal corkscrew style pitching .....
The i3 is 'fun' insofar as it is dynamically terrible. i mean really appalling.
it sproings and pogos everywhere due to terrible damping (under compression, it never settles), the brakes are downright dangerous, the battery overheats after about a mile and a half of consistent throttle and it understeers for england.
dynamically, it is the worst car i have ever driven.
it doesn't mean i don't like the car, i have just bought my second, but handle it most certainly does not.....
Greg_D said:
until the second minute and the batteries overheat and give up and you get half power.
The i3 is 'fun' insofar as it is dynamically terrible. i mean really appalling.
it sproings and pogos everywhere due to terrible damping (under compression, it never settles), the brakes are downright dangerous, the battery overheats after about a mile and a half of consistent throttle and it understeers for england.
dynamically, it is the worst car i have ever driven.
it doesn't mean i don't like the car, i have just bought my second, but handle it most certainly does not.....
I concur. I haven't found the brake (or even battery) issue as I've really never wanted to push it but on a couple of times it's let go at the back and it's an absolute handful to get back. My old elise wasn't too easy but at least you got signals that something was going to happen. On top of that the traction control in the BMW (which I haven't wanted to switch off given the above issue) is pretty intrusive.The i3 is 'fun' insofar as it is dynamically terrible. i mean really appalling.
it sproings and pogos everywhere due to terrible damping (under compression, it never settles), the brakes are downright dangerous, the battery overheats after about a mile and a half of consistent throttle and it understeers for england.
dynamically, it is the worst car i have ever driven.
it doesn't mean i don't like the car, i have just bought my second, but handle it most certainly does not.....
What is fun is having the always-there torque to get you out of corners, especially tight ones like hairpins. As a country-dweller it's really useful to get past tractors.
When it's icy like it is at the moment I take the old Subaru (even though both are on winter tyres). It's not that the Subaru is AWD, it's just when it does slip it's really predictable and easy to control.
My son said the other day 'dad, if BMW own Rolls Royce, why can't they get one of their engineers to make this a bit more comfortable.'
Either you guys are driving a totally different i3 to me (mines a very late 65 plate, no idea if earlier cars had different chassis tunes) or you need to learn to drive properly! ;-)
The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
I agree, driving it smoothly is definitely the way of getting the most out of the car. When driving it like this on the smooth tarmac we have most of the time here in Switzerland and feeding the power in and using the regen braking it's very pleasant.
At the moment we have snow and ice with temperatures this week unlikely to go over 5 below. In these conditions, or when it's wet and slippery it's not so good.
In the ice, even with winter tyres, the back can start to move about when you lift off. Again, given I drive so much on low grip conditions (snow, gravel) a bit of slide doesn't phase me. In a straight line a 'floaty' rear isn't an issue but if you lift off mid corner (OK I know you shouldn't but there are times when it happens) then it's less fun. The issue is that it's hard to use the accelerator to reduce the cause of the slipping as that can trigger the traction control and frankly I feel I am then not in control of the situation when the car isn't responding in response to my inputs.
When the rear does go, and I had it a couple of times last summer when it was wet, the i3 snaps the rear out quite dramatically and without much warning. My guess is that it's to do with the weight over the rear axle. The answer of course is to ensure you stay a good safety margin away from it's limits.
On bumpy roads the i3 can be borderline uncomfortable. If Lotus or Porsche can make more comfortable sportscars I don't see why BMW can't with a city car. I don't feel it's bouncing the car off the line but it's hardly nice.
I do believe I could be a better driver, but given I've done several handling courses on snow and track I don't feel I'm bad.
At the moment we have snow and ice with temperatures this week unlikely to go over 5 below. In these conditions, or when it's wet and slippery it's not so good.
In the ice, even with winter tyres, the back can start to move about when you lift off. Again, given I drive so much on low grip conditions (snow, gravel) a bit of slide doesn't phase me. In a straight line a 'floaty' rear isn't an issue but if you lift off mid corner (OK I know you shouldn't but there are times when it happens) then it's less fun. The issue is that it's hard to use the accelerator to reduce the cause of the slipping as that can trigger the traction control and frankly I feel I am then not in control of the situation when the car isn't responding in response to my inputs.
When the rear does go, and I had it a couple of times last summer when it was wet, the i3 snaps the rear out quite dramatically and without much warning. My guess is that it's to do with the weight over the rear axle. The answer of course is to ensure you stay a good safety margin away from it's limits.
On bumpy roads the i3 can be borderline uncomfortable. If Lotus or Porsche can make more comfortable sportscars I don't see why BMW can't with a city car. I don't feel it's bouncing the car off the line but it's hardly nice.
I do believe I could be a better driver, but given I've done several handling courses on snow and track I don't feel I'm bad.
Max_Torque said:
Either you guys are driving a totally different i3 to me (mines a very late 65 plate, no idea if earlier cars had different chassis tunes) or you need to learn to drive properly! ;-)
The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
Is handwheel another name for a steering wheel?The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
Zoon said:
Max_Torque said:
Either you guys are driving a totally different i3 to me (mines a very late 65 plate, no idea if earlier cars had different chassis tunes) or you need to learn to drive properly! ;-)
The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
Is handwheel another name for a steering wheel?The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
Seems to be. What he says about rolling resistance is contrary to all known science btw, so I would take the rest with a pinch of salt too.
Having said that he really confirms that, in some circumstances the i3 has poor stability and handling and that you need to drive accordingly.
Perhaps that's acceptable for what is, after all, a city/short commute car?
OK, I'm also on my second i3. First one was a BEV now have a 94REx. Done about 34,000 i3 miles altogether over the past 34 months.
I have never managed to overheat the battery. This includes driving at sustained high speed and even driving it around a sprint circuit with lots of hard acceleration.
The only time I have ever had reduced power is when it has been REALLY cold overnight and I haven't charged or preconditioned the car.
I find the handling perfectly acceptable and VERY "chuckable". When it's cold and and damp it can spin up a back wheel and slide momentarily but its never a problem.
Brakes aren't fantastic but certainly adequate - they just need a firm shove if pressing on. Most of the time in my daily commute I don't use them at all.
I have never managed to overheat the battery. This includes driving at sustained high speed and even driving it around a sprint circuit with lots of hard acceleration.
The only time I have ever had reduced power is when it has been REALLY cold overnight and I haven't charged or preconditioned the car.
I find the handling perfectly acceptable and VERY "chuckable". When it's cold and and damp it can spin up a back wheel and slide momentarily but its never a problem.
Brakes aren't fantastic but certainly adequate - they just need a firm shove if pressing on. Most of the time in my daily commute I don't use them at all.
Zoon said:
Max_Torque said:
Either you guys are driving a totally different i3 to me (mines a very late 65 plate, no idea if earlier cars had different chassis tunes) or you need to learn to drive properly! ;-)
The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
Is handwheel another name for a steering wheel?The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
You may say "huh, so what" but try and talk about vehicle dynamics by just saying "steering wheel" and no one knows if you are referring to the actual road wheel or the drivers handwheel. Hence, you'll find people who actually understand and have worked in vehicle dynamics using the term "handwheel" to refer to driver inputs for clarity.
t have you been smoking 
Thanks for the replies to my questions (which started this discussion about handling, sorry).
Is this only a city car? Am I wrong to consider it for my 20,000 miles pa? Commute is 60 miles return on windy Moor roads. Social driving is around Devon and Cornwall with some but not much town/city driving. A few trips a year to Scotland (but I do have an old V70 tdi which I could use for this).
Is this only a city car? Am I wrong to consider it for my 20,000 miles pa? Commute is 60 miles return on windy Moor roads. Social driving is around Devon and Cornwall with some but not much town/city driving. A few trips a year to Scotland (but I do have an old V70 tdi which I could use for this).
Not an i3 owner myself but have driven one perhaps 100 miles on a mix of motorway, A road and B road and it deals with them all fine. Your commute length is ideal for an i3 provided you can charge it at home or at work every day - much cheaper motoring than fossil fuel and it's fun to drive in its own way. I'm trying hard to justify one but I just don't do enough miles.
Max_Torque said:
Either you guys are driving a totally different i3 to me (mines a very late 65 plate, no idea if earlier cars had different chassis tunes) or you need to learn to drive properly! ;-)
The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
Hand wheel. I've heard it all now. You aren't in a dynamic sign off meeting at mclaren now max, this is pistonheads and talking like that just makes you look a berk. There is absolutely no confusion about calling the thing in front of the driver a steering wheel. Why don't you just change your ph handle from max torque to 'I worked on the p1 don't you know - I'm an engineer'The issues i have, most of which cannot be changed due to the "eco" tune required
1) off centre handwheel linearity: Because the car is tracked pretty square to get low rolling drag, the sidewalls are sat in a pretty neutral load condition, so handwheel inputs first load the side walls (lag) then at a certain load, the carcase "pops" out of line and the front end dives into the turn a bit. If you are one of those people who struggles to put in smooth handwheel inputs, then i can see this being a bigger issue and probably leads to people thinking the car is "unstable" (which it isn't)
2)Handwheel weighting: Too much assistance, tbh, the car could pretty much have no PAS and it would be ok imo. (but as a "city" car, you can see why they have gone for low handwheel loads.
3) Tyre sidewalls are low stiffness: Again, to get low rolling resistance, you need soft sidewalls, to allow the carcase to roll over the road and not bounce off it (which causes drag) Although this gives a nice primary ride feel, high dynamic conditions result in tyre tuck / squat. Another reason to put in nice smooth inputs, get it loaded slowly and evenly.
4) The brakes always feel rubbish because they never get used! So every time you press the pedal (only about maybe once every 50 miles tbh!) you get that horrible scratchy, "first press of the morning" type feel, where as the discs heat for the first time the friction co-efficient changes markedly. If you beast them a bit, get them warm, then they feel ok (no, not like an M3 or something with massive 4 pots, but fine bite/power/grab for a city car of this type)
I have no issues at all with the ride, the damping, spring rate, roll stiffness, traction, DSC cal, or anything like that, in fact, as i said, the basic dynamics are imo, actually very good indeed for a "city" car (due to the long wheelbase, low CofG, and rewards mass bias).
You are probably correct that many of the suboptimal traits of the i3 are to be blamed on its Eco goals, but it doesn't mean that they are acceptable on an 'ultimate driving machine'.
if you did a side by side dynamic assessment of the i3 vs a fiesta St the bmw wouldn't see which way the ford went.
I will admit that my 66 plate i3 is a lot more settled in the suspension as opposed to my 14 car, I suspect that they use the same setup for the bev and Rex and the extra weight over the rear axle settles it a lot (like in loaded pickup trucks)
I absolutely will not accept that the brakes, tc calibration, secondary ride and basic dynamic balance are acceptable though, they are not. It's an under damped, under steering, pogoing mess of a car dynamically speaking that has utterly marginal brakes when you need to stand on them. In light of bmw having very good basic ingredients such as rwd, high body stiffness and low cog, it makes the subsequent product all the more unforgivable.
Ps my credentials as a driver are that I compete at championship level gearbox karting for the British importer of tony kart and am extremely used to using minimal steering inputs, thank you very much.
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