So who's getting an i3?
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
A question to all the EV owners - its great that more and more charging points are appearing in the networks.
However my understanding is they can take 30-60mins to charge - no problem now as you can nip in to refresh and have a drink, what happens if you pull in low on juice and there is a queue like we experience at petrol stations you could be waiting hours to get juice before you can move on.
Thoughts?
Also what if there is a broken charger - just like petrol out of order pumps we see all the time it means waiting time to recharge is in the hours at a service station.
What is the workaround/solution especially as more and more EVs appear on our roads it is a problem which will become more and more of an issue.
There's been a hoo-ha on twitter today because some guy with a Tesla Model S left his car plugged in for 3 hours at an IKEA rapid charger and LEAF owners had to wait for him to return. His car was charging the entire time (it's such a huge battery) and there's no time limit on the charger so technically he did nothing wrong but the LEAF owners were fretting and saying that this 'hogging' was out of order. However my understanding is they can take 30-60mins to charge - no problem now as you can nip in to refresh and have a drink, what happens if you pull in low on juice and there is a queue like we experience at petrol stations you could be waiting hours to get juice before you can move on.
Thoughts?
Also what if there is a broken charger - just like petrol out of order pumps we see all the time it means waiting time to recharge is in the hours at a service station.
What is the workaround/solution especially as more and more EVs appear on our roads it is a problem which will become more and more of an issue.
EV ownership is growing faster than charging point installation so this is obviously going to become more and more prevalent. The LEAF forum also has a few threads on 'charge point rage' with a few nasty incidents. This is one of the main reasons that I went with the REx option, I just can't be bothered to have to deal with that sort of thing on long distance journeys.
mids said:
Hi TT, good decision although didn't I see you making some negative comments about the i3 not that long ago? (or maybe that someone else?).
Very much agree about your comment about the DC charging. I made the same decision and don't regret it. Put the £560 towards the driver assist pack is my advice.
As well as the bigger screen & improved satnav the Pro-Nav pack also comes with 3D/satellite view, USB port to upload media to a 20Gb HDD, splitscreen funtion (which is actually very useful) and an improved iDrive controller. I think it's worth the cost.
With the parking pack, one of the main benefits is the sensors in the front. The standard car comes with reversing sensors but nothing at the front.
Seriously? You need sensors at the front? I swear you'd bang your knees before the front of the car hit something. It's literally an arms length.Very much agree about your comment about the DC charging. I made the same decision and don't regret it. Put the £560 towards the driver assist pack is my advice.
As well as the bigger screen & improved satnav the Pro-Nav pack also comes with 3D/satellite view, USB port to upload media to a 20Gb HDD, splitscreen funtion (which is actually very useful) and an improved iDrive controller. I think it's worth the cost.
With the parking pack, one of the main benefits is the sensors in the front. The standard car comes with reversing sensors but nothing at the front.
mids said:
Hi TT, good decision although didn't I see you making some negative comments about the i3 not that long ago? (or maybe that someone else?).
Very much agree about your comment about the DC charging. I made the same decision and don't regret it. Put the £560 towards the driver assist pack is my advice.
As well as the bigger screen & improved satnav the Pro-Nav pack also comes with 3D/satellite view, USB port to upload media to a 20Gb HDD, splitscreen funtion (which is actually very useful) and an improved iDrive controller. I think it's worth the cost.
With the parking pack, one of the main benefits is the sensors in the front. The standard car comes with reversing sensors but nothing at the front.
Er, yeah I was saying I didn't really want one as I'm fed up of cars with high seating. Really I'd still prefer it if the i3 had a 2 foot lower roof line, and was 3 foot longer. But you can't have everything. Though it would make kWh/mile a lot less on motorways if the aero was a bit more 4 series shaped than Margrine tub shaped. ;-) Still it will be fun to startle GTis at traffic light grand prix in my "City Car" - especially when they have to deal with a cluth and change to 2nd gear. Very much agree about your comment about the DC charging. I made the same decision and don't regret it. Put the £560 towards the driver assist pack is my advice.
As well as the bigger screen & improved satnav the Pro-Nav pack also comes with 3D/satellite view, USB port to upload media to a 20Gb HDD, splitscreen funtion (which is actually very useful) and an improved iDrive controller. I think it's worth the cost.
With the parking pack, one of the main benefits is the sensors in the front. The standard car comes with reversing sensors but nothing at the front.
I've just finished speccing a base car with nothing apart from wheels... there's definitely a conspiracy there to make everyone upgrade as I can't imagine anyone wanting the base wheels. I did toy with the idea of getting them and having them painted black with blue hilights. But still think they'll look wrong.
Lucky for me I love the white and black and blue comobination so saved £550 there
Though the orange is really tempting. However after adding all the option I really want - I was like Meh... the numbers don't look that diffferent. The only mooment of waskness I had today was a quick wander round the showroom to see what else they sell for £38,000! And I was like hmmmn... 4 series convertible or i3... but then the sales guy pointed out you don't get £5k knocked off the 4 series by the governement. Still, it's tempting! But then got home...I've finally got to grips with first year capital write off, and with buying through the company (and therefore not taking my divinds into the 40% braket, I'm basically getting the car at a price that woudl br £21k if I had to use my own money. The rest is money that would have gone on taxes but is instead funding the purchase of a vehicle whic I'll only pay about £450 a year on over the next 3 years. Finally I get something back after all those years of funding about 20 people living on the dole and several liposuctions a year for people with lack of self cake control!
As other people have pointed out - the jerry can is likely to be essential for me... I do 160 miles each way between just north of brum and southampton every other week. Just need to find out if the landlord in the rented place minds me sticking in a second charge point. If they are still free/£99. Might struggle to do the whole thing in 1 stint, but there's plenty of layby up the A34 where I can top off the tank before getting on the M40.
mids said:
There's been a hoo-ha on twitter today because some guy with a Tesla Model S left his car plugged in for 3 hours at an IKEA rapid charger and LEAF owners had to wait for him to return. His car was charging the entire time (it's such a huge battery) and there's no time limit on the charger so technically he did nothing wrong but the LEAF owners were fretting and saying that this 'hogging' was out of order.
EV ownership is growing faster than charging point installation so this is obviously going to become more and more prevalent. The LEAF forum also has a few threads on 'charge point rage' with a few nasty incidents. This is one of the main reasons that I went with the REx option, I just can't be bothered to have to deal with that sort of thing on long distance journeys.
Here's what they need - essential when we go to Le Mans, And a roll of gaffa tape...EV ownership is growing faster than charging point installation so this is obviously going to become more and more prevalent. The LEAF forum also has a few threads on 'charge point rage' with a few nasty incidents. This is one of the main reasons that I went with the REx option, I just can't be bothered to have to deal with that sort of thing on long distance journeys.
http://www.mdnsupplies.co.uk/shop/16amp-240v-blue-...
Though I think a Tesla and 2 Leafs charging at the same time would melt it unless they all drop back to 13 amp mode. Maybe the Telsa onwer should get a trailer with a genny on it ;-)
Olf said:
Another option is to look at your passengers - when they start visibly flinching your you still have at least a foot. 
hehe, top tip. I park in my garage so I use the sensors every day & I'm not ashamed to say I find them useful because I rarely have flinching passengers alongside for guidance ;-)TransverseTight said:
I've just finished speccing a base car with nothing apart from wheels... there's definitely a conspiracy there to make everyone upgrade as I can't imagine anyone wanting the base wheels.
I've finally got to grips with first year capital write off, and with buying through the company (and therefore not taking my divinds into the 40% braket, I'm basically getting the car at a price that woudl br £21k if I had to use my own money. The rest is money that would have gone on taxes but is instead funding the purchase of a vehicle whic I'll only pay about £450 a year on over the next 3 years. Finally I get something back after all those years of funding about 20 people living on the dole and several liposuctions a year for people with lack of self cake control!
As other people have pointed out - the jerry can is likely to be essential for me... I do 160 miles each way between just north of brum and southampton every other week. Just need to find out if the landlord in the rented place minds me sticking in a second charge point. If they are still free/£99. Might struggle to do the whole thing in 1 stint, but there's plenty of layby up the A34 where I can top off the tank before getting on the M40.
The 'easy clean' wheels (as someone here named them) are a bit naff but I don't hate them as much as some people do. I've got a set with some winter tyres on so will be using them later in the year. The i3 is such an odd looking car I don't think you can really fix it by sticking the 20" wheels on.I've finally got to grips with first year capital write off, and with buying through the company (and therefore not taking my divinds into the 40% braket, I'm basically getting the car at a price that woudl br £21k if I had to use my own money. The rest is money that would have gone on taxes but is instead funding the purchase of a vehicle whic I'll only pay about £450 a year on over the next 3 years. Finally I get something back after all those years of funding about 20 people living on the dole and several liposuctions a year for people with lack of self cake control!
As other people have pointed out - the jerry can is likely to be essential for me... I do 160 miles each way between just north of brum and southampton every other week. Just need to find out if the landlord in the rented place minds me sticking in a second charge point. If they are still free/£99. Might struggle to do the whole thing in 1 stint, but there's plenty of layby up the A34 where I can top off the tank before getting on the M40.
Sounds like you've sussed the financials out. Now go tell your contractor mates and get some more EV's on the road!
Not sure I understand the jerry can idea with so many petrol stations dotted around everywhere. The satnav does a good job of pointing you to the nearest one and you're never more than a few miles away. Unless I'm missing a trick?
mids said:
There's been a hoo-ha on twitter today because some guy with a Tesla Model S left his car plugged in for 3 hours at an IKEA rapid charger and LEAF owners had to wait for him to return. His car was charging the entire time (it's such a huge battery) and there's no time limit on the charger so technically he did nothing wrong but the LEAF owners were fretting and saying that this 'hogging' was out of order.
EV ownership is growing faster than charging point installation so this is obviously going to become more and more prevalent. The LEAF forum also has a few threads on 'charge point rage' with a few nasty incidents. This is one of the main reasons that I went with the REx option, I just can't be bothered to have to deal with that sort of thing on long distance journeys.
This is only going to increase - is it possibly for one of those lead owners to unplug the Tesla S and charge the leaf? EV ownership is growing faster than charging point installation so this is obviously going to become more and more prevalent. The LEAF forum also has a few threads on 'charge point rage' with a few nasty incidents. This is one of the main reasons that I went with the REx option, I just can't be bothered to have to deal with that sort of thing on long distance journeys.
Welshbeef said:
This is only going to increase - is it possibly for one of those lead owners to unplug the Tesla S and charge the leaf?
The plug unlocks when charging finishes so some owners do unplug other cars but that's resulted in arguments as well because not everyone thinks that's acceptable (recent example here). The Tesla couldn't be unplugged as it remained charging for the entire time so they had to wait for the owner to return which must have been a fun way to spend a Sunday morning.mids said:
The plug unlocks when charging finishes so some owners do unplug other cars but that's resulted in arguments as well because not everyone thinks that's acceptable (recent example here). The Tesla couldn't be unplugged as it remained charging for the entire time so they had to wait for the owner to return which must have been a fun way to spend a Sunday morning.
What happens if there is damage caused to a vehicle when another owner removes it? Likely to be an expensive repair and could mean that the vehicle takes days to be repaired so is off the road = hire car costs etc. Lots of day to day issues to resolve.
Think its clear self service isn't the long term solution rather it will be manned and once a vehicle is complete the man moves vehicle out of charge bay
It's a strange decision to install a rapid DC charger in somewhere like an IKEA car park, they are much better suited to motorway service stations where you take your 30 min charge and then move on. The DC chargers are very expensive so I've seen it argued that IKEA would have been better off using the money to install a dozen (or more) 32A AC charging points.
mids said:
There's been a hoo-ha on twitter today because some guy with a Tesla Model S left his car plugged in for 3 hours at an IKEA rapid charger and LEAF owners had to wait for him to return. His car was charging the entire time (it's such a huge battery) and there's no time limit on the charger so technically he did nothing wrong but the LEAF owners were fretting and saying that this 'hogging' was out of order.
A DC fast charge would charge a Tesla in under two hours from empty? Given that it probably wasn't empty, three hours sounds like a little embellishment on twitter. No personal criticism This isn't really a technical problem - it's a social problem. Your other example of somebody unplugging a leaf and then filming the other owner sounds like somebody looking for trouble. IKEA could, for example:
a) employ a valet service
b) allow a maximum of half an hour then call a customer over the tannoy
c) find another method of technologically allowing a maximum charging time
d) accept that EV takeup is increasing and invest in more chargers.
At the end of the day, EVs are a little like mobile phones - you only top them up during the day if you get chance (unless at work), and charge them up fully at night at home. I can't see somebody arriving at the local supermarket and needing a full tank - unless they have no other way of charging!
strudel said:
A DC fast charge would charge a Tesla in under two hours from empty? Given that it probably wasn't empty, three hours sounds like a little embellishment on twitter. No personal criticism
This isn't really a technical problem - it's a social problem. Your other example of somebody unplugging a leaf and then filming the other owner sounds like somebody looking for trouble. IKEA could, for example:
a) employ a valet service
b) allow a maximum of half an hour then call a customer over the tannoy
c) find another method of technologically allowing a maximum charging time
d) accept that EV takeup is increasing and invest in more chargers.
At the end of the day, EVs are a little like mobile phones - you only top them up during the day if you get chance (unless at work), and charge them up fully at night at home. I can't see somebody arriving at the local supermarket and needing a full tank - unless they have no other way of charging!
So it quickly changes from a free charge to having the cost of installing loads of charging points employing staff to move cars around for a minority customers benefit v petrol /diesel owners which costs them nothing apart from general upkeep of the car park. This isn't really a technical problem - it's a social problem. Your other example of somebody unplugging a leaf and then filming the other owner sounds like somebody looking for trouble. IKEA could, for example:
a) employ a valet service
b) allow a maximum of half an hour then call a customer over the tannoy
c) find another method of technologically allowing a maximum charging time
d) accept that EV takeup is increasing and invest in more chargers.
At the end of the day, EVs are a little like mobile phones - you only top them up during the day if you get chance (unless at work), and charge them up fully at night at home. I can't see somebody arriving at the local supermarket and needing a full tank - unless they have no other way of charging!
I wonder what would happen if IKEA is full all spaces taken only 1 left a charge point guess where intolerant joe Bloggs is going to park his car oh yes in that space. Don't think it will happen? Heck countless park in priority parking/disabled parking now when they are not disabled at all, there will be zero conscience about parking in an EV parking space.
Actually I wonder if there might be some (annoying idiots) who would park in EV spaces deliberately for amusement/ schadenfreude
Welshbeef said:
What happens if there is damage caused to a vehicle when another owner removes it? Likely to be an expensive repair and could mean that the vehicle takes days to be repaired so is off the road = hire car costs etc.
Lots of day to day issues to resolve.
Think its clear self service isn't the long term solution rather it will be manned and once a vehicle is complete the man moves vehicle out of charge bay
You can't unplug a car while it's charging as the plugs are locked in place. One of the first things I thought to check in case some spotty tenager thinks its funny to disconnect you whilst topping up with economy 7 and are in bed.Lots of day to day issues to resolve.
Think its clear self service isn't the long term solution rather it will be manned and once a vehicle is complete the man moves vehicle out of charge bay
I do have a solution... register an email address specifcally for your car. Some of them have a remote diconnect facility, so you can leave a note saying "if charged please contact consideratedriver@gmailcom". Maybe. Don't know whether someone could then pinch your cable or if it's part of the charging station yet.
Regarding the jerry can.. do you really want to be queing at the checkout every time you need another 5 litres to top up... best to fill the car and a jerry can at the same time. In my case I've got a 320 miles round trip every other weekend so know I'l be using it 2 days later.
I've been checking out the DC infrastructure today. Decided the 32kW chargers are a waste for long journeys.. but handy if you're out for the day - or at work. There's only 1 50kW 125Amp CSS charger on my long route I do (and about 6 more in the counrty) - unfortunately only 30 miles from the start of my return journey. LOL. If anyone in power is reading - please put one at the junction of the A34/M40. they are supposed to be rolling out as we speak - so I though bugger it and stuck the DC prep on the options. I'm pretty sure by the time I get the car there will be a few more round as Ecotricity seem to be rolling them out. Not sure about the BMW programme. Seems a lot of the chargers are out the way and cost £1.50 a go. Or thats what the http://chargenow.chargemasterplc.com/ says. I'm hoping that if you only do 1/2 charge it's 75p! Again there's nothing listsed as 50kW yet but will see by end of 2014.
strudel said:
A DC fast charge would charge a Tesla in under two hours from empty? Given that it probably wasn't empty, three hours sounds like a little embellishment on twitter.
It's a bit more complicated than that because the Tesla doesn't have a DC CHAdeMO socket so can't use the fastest rate available from the IKEA charger, it has to use the AC side which charges at a slower rate (22kw which is about 4.5 hours to fill an empty P85 Model S). Unfortunately, any car using the AC side of the rapid charger prevents someone else using the DC side which is also something else that has been mentioned as a possible improvement. If Ecotricity could allow 2 cars to charge it would be more useful than the current situation even if it had to be at reduced power. TransverseTight said:
Regarding the jerry can.. do you really want to be queing at the checkout every time you need another 5 litres to top up.
I suppose it depends on how often you use the REx. I'm only using it for less than 15% of my mileage so visiting a petrol station is a rare occurrence and I never do partial refills, I just run the REx tank fully empty and then use the battery range to go find a petrol station.TransverseTight said:
Seems a lot of the chargers are out the way and cost £1.50 a go. Or thats what the http://chargenow.chargemasterplc.com/ says. I'm hoping that if you only do 1/2 charge it's 75p! Again there's nothing listsed as 50kW yet but will see by end of 2014.
Since April 1st Chargemaster have introduced fees for their charging points and their CCS rapids now cost £7.50 for 30 mins. Quite a few CYC rapids area also now charging (its £5 in the North East) and Dale Vince (Ecotricity CEO) recently said in an interview that they are going to introduce fees as from January next year so the era of free top ups from DC rapid chargers seems to be coming to an end.Welshbeef said:
So it quickly changes from a free charge to having the cost of installing loads of charging points employing staff to move cars around for a minority customers benefit v petrol /diesel owners which costs them nothing apart from general upkeep of the car park.
So as an idea installing just a few charging points only has a short term benefit. In the long term a shop is either expecting to profit by implementing billable charging, or it just won't be worth having so few because of the potential issues that will arise. If you offered free petrol to customers but only if they park in one of three places I can imagine arguments would occur quickly.mids said:
TransverseTight said:
Regarding the jerry can.. do you really want to be queing at the checkout every time you need another 5 litres to top up.
I suppose it depends on how often you use the REx. I'm only using it for less than 15% of my mileage so visiting a petrol station is a rare occurrence and I never do partial refills, I just run the REx tank fully empty and then use the battery range to go find a petrol station.TransverseTight said:
Dale Vince (Ecotricity CEO) recently said in an interview that they are going to introduce fees as from January next year so the era of free top ups from DC rapid chargers seems to be coming to an end.
I heard that too but I thought I also heard that it won't be as expensive as the Chargemaster. I'm looking forward to the odd long distant trip but my i3 will be just for all the local taxi work with the kids and the good ladies commute so will be charged at home nearly all the time.mids said:
Since April 1st Chargemaster have introduced fees for their charging points and their CCS rapids now cost £7.50 for 30 mins.
:-OOOO . 18 kWh full charge x 16p/kWh = 3.24 That's worse rate residential tariff by the way - not wholesale or business cost. They should be paying about 10p/kWh or less make a cost to them of £1.80.That's some infrastructure cost - cough, profit, they are hoping to recover.
£7.50 @ £1.30 / litre = 5.76 litres of unleaded.
With 50mpg = 11 miles per litre = 63 miles of range without having to stop and have a burger too. Splash and dash.
Can't see anyone with a REX wanting to fast charge if the cost is the same as unleaded. In fact can't see anyone wanting to fast charge at that price as it's a rip off. Unleaded has 500% tax on it. Electric only has 5%. It's not like it costs £1,000 per petrol pump, and 10000 litre storage tank either.
The same reason I won't buy 80p cans of coke at WHSmith & Boots and go to Poundland instead (3 for £1). My guess is they are having to pay heaps loads to get a franchise on the service station. As usual. Personally I check out where all the supermarkets are on my regular routes and avoid the services. Usually a 3 mile detour off the motorway saves you £5 on the tank. Maybe they might start sticking in DC Chargers? EV owners are much more likely to be hunting around for charging points anyway. So it would make sense.
Think I might just delete the fast charge option and put the money towards fuel. I'll be happy to leave it on a 32A charger if parking up for the day / going shopping etc.
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