So who's getting an i3?
Discussion
BMW started with the vision of creating a bespoke Electric car.
Almost everything else (excepting the £95k VW thingy) is a conventional car with an electric motor and battery pack in place of the petrol motor and the fuel tank ...
And the bigger the battery, the lower it's Eco credentials.
When oil runs short people will care very much about Eco --- also because it offers real credibility to low running costs.
I don't waste money and resource because I can't, I do it because I choose to ....
Almost everything else (excepting the £95k VW thingy) is a conventional car with an electric motor and battery pack in place of the petrol motor and the fuel tank ...
And the bigger the battery, the lower it's Eco credentials.
When oil runs short people will care very much about Eco --- also because it offers real credibility to low running costs.
I don't waste money and resource because I can't, I do it because I choose to ....
Tesla is a bespoke EV. BMW i3 is actually a bespoke plug-in hybrid, with an EV option. IMO it would have been better as pure EV with a larger battery (petrol engine space is wasted in the EV model). I like the i3 carbon fibre body, the driving dynamics and the interior is interesting, but as an EV drivetrain it does not bring anything new.
For packaging, I think the most impressive so far is the E-Golf, which has virtually no compromise in passenger or luggage space Vs the regular Golf and avoids the high body solution of competing EVs.
For packaging, I think the most impressive so far is the E-Golf, which has virtually no compromise in passenger or luggage space Vs the regular Golf and avoids the high body solution of competing EVs.
c2mike said:
Tesla is a bespoke EV. BMW i3 is actually a bespoke plug-in hybrid, with an EV option. IMO it would have been better as pure EV with a larger battery (petrol engine space is wasted in the EV model). I like the i3 carbon fibre body, the driving dynamics and the interior is interesting, but as an EV drivetrain it does not bring anything new.
For packaging, I think the most impressive so far is the E-Golf, which has virtually no compromise in passenger or luggage space Vs the regular Golf and avoids the high body solution of competing EVs.
I have the opposite view.For packaging, I think the most impressive so far is the E-Golf, which has virtually no compromise in passenger or luggage space Vs the regular Golf and avoids the high body solution of competing EVs.
The i3 is interesting to me because it uses the fact that it is essentially an EV to throw away conventional design. (The range extender is simply stuffed into the rear 3/4 panel - so it is a proper EV design IMO)
The i3 has abandoned the need for a conventional bonnet and frontal area and used lots of carbon fibre to reduce weight. It is a very clever piece of design.
In contrast, while the Tesla is no doubt an excellent thing, I am deeply disappointed that they chose to make it look like a regular car. To me, the styling of the Tesla is a massive cop-out, a huge dose of conservatism because they didn't want to frighten the establishment with something too radical looking. So they made it look like a Hyundai.
I hope Tesla are braver with their designs in future.
toppstuff said:
In contrast, while the Tesla is no doubt an excellent thing, I am deeply disappointed that they chose to make it look like a regular car. To me, the styling of the Tesla is a massive cop-out, a huge dose of conservatism because they didn't want to frighten the establishment with something too radical looking. So they made it look like a Hyundai.
I hope Tesla are braver with their designs in future.
Do you think the Tesla would have been as successful for a start-up company if it looked like the i3?I hope Tesla are braver with their designs in future.
Can any current i3 owners tell me anything about how suitable the car is for carrying a bike in the boot? I'm thinking about buying an i3 on my company next year, currently i have a 3 series tourer, which is hardly the worlds largest estate car, but swallows my mountain bike nicely with the front wheel off, which makes it really easy to just chuck it in the back for a quick rip round the woods after work etc. So, what's an i3 like boot wise? Does the REx swallow any boot space compared to the pure EV?
They say a picture is worth a thousand words...
http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
Though in this case 1 word would have done. Yes [it will fit].
[edit] to add the rex doesnt use boot space. its all stashed in a purpose designed space over the rear axles. it has 3 options...
1) empty in a BEV with no heat pump.
2) filled with the heat pump option in the BEV
3) the REX.
http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
Though in this case 1 word would have done. Yes [it will fit].
[edit] to add the rex doesnt use boot space. its all stashed in a purpose designed space over the rear axles. it has 3 options...
1) empty in a BEV with no heat pump.
2) filled with the heat pump option in the BEV
3) the REX.
Edited by TransverseTight on Friday 2nd January 11:14
TransverseTight said:
They say a picture is worth a thousand words...
http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
Though in this case 1 word would have done. Yes [it will fit].
[edit] to add the rex doesnt use boot space. its all stashed in a purpose designed space over the rear axles. it has 3 options...
1) empty in a BEV with no heat pump.
2) filled with the heat pump option in the BEV
3) the REX.
Actually I'm pretty sure the heat pump goes where the Rex fuel tank lives, not in the space where the Rex unit goes. Not that this affects bike carrying capacity though :-)http://www.mybmwi3.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&am...
Though in this case 1 word would have done. Yes [it will fit].
[edit] to add the rex doesnt use boot space. its all stashed in a purpose designed space over the rear axles. it has 3 options...
1) empty in a BEV with no heat pump.
2) filled with the heat pump option in the BEV
3) the REX.
Edited by TransverseTight on Friday 2nd January 11:14
Welshbeef said:
One thing to consider is if all UK cars were suddenly EV the additional fossil fuel usage at power stations would be very significant.
Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
Stop already - I can't sleep with all of the terrible repercussions running through my mind! Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
Welshbeef said:
One thing to consider is if all UK cars were suddenly EV the additional fossil fuel usage at power stations would be very significant.
Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
Do you think we'll all have EV's overnight?Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
It's been discussed here many times, there is plenty of off peak capacity for charging for the foreseeable future.
danp said:
Welshbeef said:
One thing to consider is if all UK cars were suddenly EV the additional fossil fuel usage at power stations would be very significant.
Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
Do you think we'll all have EV's overnight?Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
It's been discussed here many times, there is plenty of off peak capacity for charging for the foreseeable future.
Clearly it will take years for it to happen but given how long it takes for new power stations to be agreed planned built then go live you could in effect have a sudden massive demand which the grid cannot cope with.
As for lots of off peak power - how many EVs charging would use up all that capacity? Is it 25% of all cars? Its this sort of analysis which has to be done for an energy strategy as were simply kicking the can into the long grass by claiming to be zero Emmission in a household but then the country is a massive user which then by default so are you as an EV owner.
Self generation sure a great idea but the payback is terrible
But isn't that the point ?
You can't even take delivery of an i3 overnight ...
And, Eco as it is, each i3 will have far less impact than say the Tesla solution ...
It is very easy to ridicule this whole discussion, but if we are to have any credible future sombody will have to think of a create a workable alternative --- and one that does not convert directly to greenhouse gasses ...
Maybe not for our children, but certainly for our grandchildren ...
You can't even take delivery of an i3 overnight ...
And, Eco as it is, each i3 will have far less impact than say the Tesla solution ...
It is very easy to ridicule this whole discussion, but if we are to have any credible future sombody will have to think of a create a workable alternative --- and one that does not convert directly to greenhouse gasses ...
Maybe not for our children, but certainly for our grandchildren ...
Welshbeef said:
One thing to consider is if all UK cars were suddenly EV the additional fossil fuel usage at power stations would be very significant.
Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
I can't be bothered to discuss this anymore. Oh go on then...Actually the peak demand could prove way too much for the grids capacity.
If ALL new car sales were suddenly EV, it will take 20 or more years to replace the current vehicle stock.
This is current grid capacity...
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
Over 20 GW free overnight, enough to replace all current cars average daily usage. Assuming less than 40 miles a day average.
This explains how EV cars use less energy than Petrol Cars (because it takes about 6kWh of electricity to refine 1 gallon of Petrol so an EV can travel about 20 miles just on the refining energy, let alone the transportation and the actualy energy in the oil.)
http://iet.jrc.ec.europa.eu/about-jec/sites/iet.jr...
But all of this is irrelevant. People aren't going to buy EVs because of lower emissions or energy use or becuase they are cheaper. They'll buy them becuase they are better. As the range increases and cost decreases they'll become practical for more people.
First off are the "have your own drive and do less than 50 miles round trip commute and another car for long journeys". That's about 25% of the country give or take 10%. So about 5 million cars to convert. Given total EV sales so far are less than 20,000 IIRC, you don't need to worry about grid capacity. I can assure you National Grid and the Energy Co's are well ahead of the thinking process and already desigining standards and ptotocols to allow flexibile charging and import/export facility from EVs. My second to last contract was at one of the big 6 and I had a look at their Intranet which talked about the Smart Grid standards being developed.
Google a project called "my electric avenue". It's a series of studies on the effects and best methods of optimising things when we get streets full of EV's, and it's happening today (in fact, it's been running for a year so far).
If you take the current grid capacity over night, you could charge approx 6 million (completely flat) Nissan leafs from it without having to change the generation infrastructure at all (local changes will be necessary, like upgraded transformers and high current domestic feed current etc). And of course, not every driver will completely flat their car in a single day, or have to charge every night.
If you take the current grid capacity over night, you could charge approx 6 million (completely flat) Nissan leafs from it without having to change the generation infrastructure at all (local changes will be necessary, like upgraded transformers and high current domestic feed current etc). And of course, not every driver will completely flat their car in a single day, or have to charge every night.
Max_Torque said:
Google a project called "my electric avenue". It's a series of studies on the effects and best methods of optimising things when we get streets full of EV's, and it's happening today (in fact, it's been running for a year so far).
If you take the current grid capacity over night, you could charge approx 6 million (completely flat) Nissan leafs from it without having to change the generation infrastructure at all (local changes will be necessary, like upgraded transformers and high current domestic feed current etc). And of course, not every driver will completely flat their car in a single day, or have to charge every night.
The question is what is the projection in year wide when we expect the UK to surpass that level?If you take the current grid capacity over night, you could charge approx 6 million (completely flat) Nissan leafs from it without having to change the generation infrastructure at all (local changes will be necessary, like upgraded transformers and high current domestic feed current etc). And of course, not every driver will completely flat their car in a single day, or have to charge every night.
Does that projection mirror what the National grid is doing to meet it?
Welshbeef said:
The question is what is the projection in year wide when we expect the UK to surpass that level?
Does that projection mirror what the National grid is doing to meet it?
That's not the question at all because it's a pointless question. Every year that goes by will see an improvement in the battery technology or the grid strength or the generating capacity. I'd imagine that the LED/halogen bulb revolution has already overcome your concern.Does that projection mirror what the National grid is doing to meet it?
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