LPG

[Art0ir]

johnny fotze said:

I'm not knocking it, I ran a 4 litre Grand Cherokee on it for 3 years, and LPG made running a 4 litre Grand Cherokee possible at all in my case. However, despite claims to the contrary, the power loss is noticeable, as is the reduced mileage per gallon. It's a good way to reduce the cost of big engine ownership, but will never replace tractor juice as the best mile muncher. IN MY OPINION.

My 4.7 V8 GC was cheaper to run than the diesel equivalent... and I got to drive an obnoxious V8 instead of a horrible 2.7 diesel

[littlebasher]

A LPG conversion i had done paid for itself in around 9 months.

Not just the fuel saving alone, but you get free parking in Sheffield as part of a green 'initiative'.

No downsides really, plus there's loads of garages in and around Sheffield that sell the stuff.

[SpeckledJim]

By buying at my local Calor gas dealer (which is just as easy, and NEVER busy) I get LPG at 62p a litre, saving 12p a litre over the Shell garage.

[wuckfitracing]

littlebasher said:

A LPG conversion i had done paid for itself in around 9 months.

Not just the fuel saving alone, but you get free parking in Sheffield as part of a green 'initiative'.

No downsides really, plus there's loads of garages in and around Sheffield that sell the stuff.

Fancy that I never knew about free parking. Tell me more, My missus drives a Suzuki Grand Vitara with LPG and works in Sheffield.

[littlebasher]

wuckfitracing said:

Fancy that I never knew about free parking. Tell me more, My missus drives a Suzuki Grand Vitara with LPG and works in Sheffield.

It's here https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads/travel/driving/...

I see it's changed now though, it was a tenner for the year last time i used it!

[wildatheart]

I have now done 62000 trouble free LPG miles in my 4.4 BMW 840 Sport. In fact the only time the car attempted to leave me stranded was when the petrol pump failed (LPG cars briefly run on petrol on startup). But, I forced it to start on LPG instead and drove home I must work out how many £thousands I have saved in fuel over the years.

[wuckfitracing]

littlebasher said:

It's here https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads/travel/driving/...

I see it's changed now though, it was a tenner for the year last time i used it!

Many thanks, thats still a lot cheaper than the £20 a week park and ride. She can drive closer to work and within 5 weeks its a braeak even point. Result.

[jmb88]

Getting my 1999 Audi A6 4.2 V8 converted this week - can't wait. Should get the cost equivalent of 35-40mpg, depending on the price of LPG (and my driving style!), which I'll be quite happy with - woman in my department at work never gets more than 37mpg out of her 335d! Plus, the whole conversion will have cost me less than £500

Edited by jmb88 on Sunday 9th February 21:48

[Sir Humphrey]

Is it possible to get a car to start on LPG with an engine remap? If so how much would it cost? I like the idea of city centre parking for £100 a year.

[buggalugs]

Mine will start on LPG if you hold the button in on cranking, it can be a bit rough for a minute or two though. Some kind of pre-heater might help.

[Bonefish Blues]

jmb88 said:

Getting my 1999 Audi A6 4.2 V8 converted this week - can't wait. Should get the cost equivalent of 35-40mpg, depending on the price of LPG (and my driving style!), which I'll be quite happy with - woman in my department at work never gets more than 37mpg out of her 335d! Plus, the whole conversion will have cost me less than £500

Edited by jmb88 on Sunday 9th February 21:48

How so?

[DaveCWK]

Sir Humphrey said:

Is it possible to get a car to start on LPG with an engine remap? If so how much would it cost? I like the idea of city centre parking for £100 a year.

You can start on LPG, remap irrelevant. The problem is that the vapouriser could freeze up - the gas changing state from liquid to vapour is an endothermic process. And your petrol injectors would never get used if you did this - probably not a good idea for long term trouble free running.

Bonefish Blues said:

How so?

+1, that is super super cheap especially for a V8. I'd triple check the quality of the components they are using in that conversion and whether they are up to the task with that engine.

I sourced all the parts to convert my 260hp 4cyl and the bill came to over £700. Admittedly they were more premium parts, but that's without labour!!

[Sir Humphrey]

DaveCWK said:

You can start on LPG, remap irrelevant. The problem is that the vapouriser could freeze up - the gas changing state from liquid to vapour is an endothermic process. And your petrol injectors would never get used if you did this - probably not a good idea for long term trouble free running.

At what temperature is this likely to happen? And if the petrol injectors never get used would it be a problem if I solely run on LPG?

[jmb88]

DaveCWK said:

Sir Humphrey said:

Is it possible to get a car to start on LPG with an engine remap? If so how much would it cost? I like the idea of city centre parking for £100 a year.

You can start on LPG, remap irrelevant. The problem is that the vapouriser could freeze up - the gas changing state from liquid to vapour is an endothermic process. And your petrol injectors would never get used if you did this - probably not a good idea for long term trouble free running.

Bonefish Blues said:

How so?

+1, that is super super cheap especially for a V8. I'd triple check the quality of the components they are using in that conversion and whether they are up to the task with that engine.

I sourced all the parts to convert my 260hp 4cyl and the bill came to over £700. Admittedly they were more premium parts, but that's without labour!!

Dad's Range Rover starts on LPG but as said, sometimes freezes. He tends to let it run on petrol for a couple of minutes in the winter before switching to gas.

I acquired an OMVL kit from a 4.4 litre BMW X5 for £180 delivered on ebay - spotted it on for 99p, no reserve, collection only, and negotiated a Buy It Now price and delivery

Had a spare tank at my parents, as dad has a couple of LPG vehicles and some spares, and then cost £110 more for the extra parts, like a filler neck, pipework etc.

Dad runs a garage, so he's fitting the kit in spare time around his other work, and then a friend of our's who is a vehicle designer/engineer is doing the wiring and tuning (he's got the software), so his work will be the final cost, as a guy dad does work for will check & certify the installation.

Kit's rated to 290 bhp, doubt I'll notice the missing 10 bhp, and if I want a real hoon I'll just flick back to petrol.

[rocknrollrich]

HustleRussell said:

Considered LPG'ing my old 525i which I have decided is a keeper, but I think I've decided against it for the following reasons;
-don't want to make a load of holes in the bodywork / underside for installation, making more places where rust can get in
-probably ought to retain my spare tyre
-problems with insurance, ferries, chunnel etc
-reduced power and MPG on gas
-the car would still use petrol, another factor forgotten by many.
-increased weight, complexity, servicing
-the car has a very low value so could be written off by a tiny bump
-the 525i is actually reasonably efficient on normal 95 RON.

Use one of them can's of wheel spray that replace the spare. It can inflate the tyre and use it at reduced speed to get you to a garage to get the tyre sorted.
Insurance isn't an issue. If the car's been done properly and registered correctly, insurance is no difference. Ferries are fine with LPG, granted the chunnel isn't. And oddly, in the states, they won't allow lpg cars to park in underground car parks...
To reiterate what others have said, power loss is not a big issue on bigger cars, and besides, you can always flick it back to petrol whenever you feel like. But you don't notice the power loss, especially when cruising on the motorway.
Servicing of the LPG system is cheap, once a year, circa £60. Normal servicing of the car remains unaffected as they don't touch the LPG system.

I ran an Audi S8 with the 4.2 v8 for ages with LPG. It was only a single point system and you noticed it when you put the boot down, it instantly flicked back to petrol as the LPG setup couldn't handle the power. But for general cruising on the motorways it was brilliant, returning about 20mpg. Took it to the south of france for the family hols last year, 2600 miles and she was perfect there and back.

[Tony427]

Filled the car up at my local BP site today ( 70.9 ppl) only to be informed that they were running a LPG promotion whereby every time you filled up with more than 30 litres of lpg, they give you a culmulative 1 ppl off your next fill up using a loyalty card scheme.

The very helpful cashier then stamped my new loyalty card and told me had had already applied the 1 pence discount to my first fill.......thus it was charged at 69.9 ppl. Thats a 48 pence saving for doing sfa.

The next time I buy 30 litres or more I'll get another 1 ppl off, the third 2ppl off. the fourth time 3ppl off until I hit 10ppl off, whereupon I go back to the beginning.

He then asked if I had a nectar card. "Its double Nectar points on LPG" he told me as he swiped my Nectar card.

At this rate BP will soon be paying me to fill up the car.....

How many times do petrol and diesel buyers exit a filling station with quite the sense of smugness I felt today?

Cheers,

Tony

[rocknrollrich]

The BP garage in Swallowfield, Reading just off the A33 has been doing that for at least a year now. I think it's great. The best I had was when it was 66.9p in there and I had 10p off, making it 56.9 for those who can't do maths. £40 to fill up an S8, sweet as! The guy there seems to be a lot cheaper than most others as well, always a good 3-4p cheaper than the next nearest ones (for me anyway...).

[handpaper]

jmb88 said:

DaveCWK said:

Sir Humphrey said:

Is it possible to get a car to start on LPG with an engine remap? If so how much would it cost? I like the idea of city centre parking for £100 a year.

You can start on LPG, remap irrelevant. The problem is that the vapouriser could freeze up - the gas changing state from liquid to vapour is an endothermic process. And your petrol injectors would never get used if you did this - probably not a good idea for long term trouble free running.

Bonefish Blues said:

How so?

+1, that is super super cheap especially for a V8. I'd triple check the quality of the components they are using in that conversion and whether they are up to the task with that engine.

I sourced all the parts to convert my 260hp 4cyl and the bill came to over £700. Admittedly they were more premium parts, but that's without labour!!

Dad's Range Rover starts on LPG but as said, sometimes freezes. He tends to let it run on petrol for a couple of minutes in the winter before switching to gas.

I acquired an OMVL kit from a 4.4 litre BMW X5 for £180 delivered on ebay - spotted it on for 99p, no reserve, collection only, and negotiated a Buy It Now price and delivery

Had a spare tank at my parents, as dad has a couple of LPG vehicles and some spares, and then cost £110 more for the extra parts, like a filler neck, pipework etc.

Dad runs a garage, so he's fitting the kit in spare time around his other work, and then a friend of our's who is a vehicle designer/engineer is doing the wiring and tuning (he's got the software), so his work will be the final cost, as a guy dad does work for will check & certify the installation.

Kit's rated to 290 bhp, doubt I'll notice the missing 10 bhp, and if I want a real hoon I'll just flick back to petrol.

The freezing issue is affected by one thing only - is coolant pumped through the vaporiser whenever the engine is running, or only above a certain temperature? LPG vaporises at -40C so all you need to do is make sure the coolant keeps moving and doesn't freeze.

I've converted three cars myself (all e30 bmws), a single-point system is not hard to DIY as it can be done in stages without taking the car off the road for more than a few hours at a time. I haven't tried a multi-point yet, but aside from the inlet manifold mod (fitting a second set of injectors) it looks almost the same.

Exclusive LPG is possible and quite simple - simpler than dual-fuel, certainly. Here's my e30 track car, LPG means no fuel pump or petrol tank:



80 litre capacity LPG tank, secured to the rear seat pan/seatbelt mounting points.



R90E vaporiser feeding a mixer directly. Rated at 190bhp, apparently good for lots more if can flow enough coolant through to keep it warm.

[jmb88]

Currently out in Germany spending some time at my better half's, and the garage round the corner has LPG for 0.719€/litre, that equates to about 57.5p/litre I think? If only British prices were like that... petrol is about the same price as back home. I've noticed quite a lot of adverts for LPG out here as well, and the majority of fuel stations seem to sell it. How come it's never caught on like this in the UK?

[Bonefish Blues]

Beats me - I can't see the downside in most cases.