Discussion
Is LPG an acceptable alternative fuel source in this forum. I ask as I am amazed that more people do not LPG their cars.
Its 68 pence per litre at my nearest station and at that price I'm saving about £1300 per year in fuel costs on my 2.4 S80. I took it one a 4000 mile tour through Italy in the summer and the fuel savings paid for the second weeks hotel bill.
I'm an avid LPG fan, are there any other on here?
Cheers,
Tony
Its 68 pence per litre at my nearest station and at that price I'm saving about £1300 per year in fuel costs on my 2.4 S80. I took it one a 4000 mile tour through Italy in the summer and the fuel savings paid for the second weeks hotel bill.
I'm an avid LPG fan, are there any other on here?
Cheers,
Tony
I'm not knocking it, I ran a 4 litre Grand Cherokee on it for 3 years, and LPG made running a 4 litre Grand Cherokee possible at all in my case. However, despite claims to the contrary, the power loss is noticeable, as is the reduced mileage per gallon. It's a good way to reduce the cost of big engine ownership, but will never replace tractor juice as the best mile muncher. IN MY OPINION.
I've been there and done it on a big BMW V8, I'd probably do it again if I was doing the miles to warrant it but it's completely pointless for me at 10k miles a year given it's very rare for me to hold on to a car for more than a year or two.
If you can feel power loss on a multi-point injection LPG system then it's not set up right or not up to the job.
The biggest pitfalls IMO are possible engine damage (either from an unsuitable engine being converted or a badly set up/faulty system) and finding a good convertor can be a nightmare.
You might well get landed with some unexpected costs because the ignition system needs to be tip-top so you may have to replace coil packs and spark plugs which depending on the car might not be cheap. Many garages aren't comfortable with LPG so whatever fault the car has they'll just say it's the LPG. Unless you're happy with DIY you need to have someone within a sensible distance who's happy to work on an LPG'd car.
Also a lot of the maths people do to work out the payback time doesn't take into account the lower fuel economy you get on LPG - it holds a good chunk less energy per litre than petrol so to get the same power you have to burn more of it. Don't believe anyone who tells you different, it's simple physics, or maybe simple chemistry, whatever, it's simple
Having said all that the savings are compelling and done right I think it's a good option if your circumstances suit it and you're willing to put the effort in to research it thoroughly.
If you can feel power loss on a multi-point injection LPG system then it's not set up right or not up to the job.
The biggest pitfalls IMO are possible engine damage (either from an unsuitable engine being converted or a badly set up/faulty system) and finding a good convertor can be a nightmare.
You might well get landed with some unexpected costs because the ignition system needs to be tip-top so you may have to replace coil packs and spark plugs which depending on the car might not be cheap. Many garages aren't comfortable with LPG so whatever fault the car has they'll just say it's the LPG. Unless you're happy with DIY you need to have someone within a sensible distance who's happy to work on an LPG'd car.
Also a lot of the maths people do to work out the payback time doesn't take into account the lower fuel economy you get on LPG - it holds a good chunk less energy per litre than petrol so to get the same power you have to burn more of it. Don't believe anyone who tells you different, it's simple physics, or maybe simple chemistry, whatever, it's simple
Having said all that the savings are compelling and done right I think it's a good option if your circumstances suit it and you're willing to put the effort in to research it thoroughly.
Just to add to the above the power loss is around 8% hardly noticeable on larger engines and no different on daily driving. How ever you can change back over to petrol instantly for over taking ect. My xj6 had 220bhp out the 3.2 6cyl and it was still plenty quick, and that was not only a single point system.
As has been said power loss is not noticeable in the real world, i have converted two cars a Saab 9000 with a primitive single injector into the air box (not completely satisfactory) and a Monaro with multipoint injection which worked really well, was getting 20 mpg on gas from that, which was about 10 ./' down on petrol, had it rolling road tested and power was down from about 400 to 380 bhp from memory.
Would I do it again? Probably not, but might be tempted by a LPG e90 m3 if somebody else had paid for the conversion!
Would I do it again? Probably not, but might be tempted by a LPG e90 m3 if somebody else had paid for the conversion!
Hi
I had a Citroen Xantia (not the most pistonhead orientated car I know) with a 60l LPG tank.
When I first got it and it was 28/29p a litre I was well chuffed. However with the price increase to virtually double this, and the fact that it did about 25mpg, meant that these days a good diesel will match it (eg my 320d) in price per miles.
cheers
I had a Citroen Xantia (not the most pistonhead orientated car I know) with a 60l LPG tank.
When I first got it and it was 28/29p a litre I was well chuffed. However with the price increase to virtually double this, and the fact that it did about 25mpg, meant that these days a good diesel will match it (eg my 320d) in price per miles.
cheers
I converted my Astra Sporthatch to LPG 4 years ago at 50,000 miles. I have now covered 100,000 miles pretty much on LPG in the last 4 years. The conversion cost £1600 and over this time I have saved £3400 by using LPG instead of petrol.
I owned the car outright at the 50,000 miles point, the car was then 3 years old and I had bought it new back in 2006. I had just moved to live with my now wife which took me away from where I work and has made me go from a 15 mile round trip to just short of 100 a day, 5 days a week.
As I knew every mile the car had driven and wanted to keep hold of this car for me it was the best choice instead of swapping out to run a diesel or keeping it on petrol.
The MPG on the journey before the conversion was 44mpg, afterwards it is 35mpg. This is in line with what the online calculator I used said - LPG hold 80% of the energy of petrol so the mpg has dropped by the same amount.
I'm generally hitting 10p/mile for the fuel costs on LPG which makes the 100 a day surviveable, petrol would be 13 to 14p/mile so £3 to £4 a day saving.
I've not looked recently but I think a diesel car would need to do 65mpg minimum in the real world for it to be comparable level of cost per day.
It could probably be done, but at the time as well the cost to change the known quantity of my own car to a used diesel equivelant would have eaten up at least £1000 and probably more.
I don't think I would pay again to convert one myself, I may buy one nearly new from a brand which already sold them converted (like Volvo or Vauxhall used to do in the UK and do in other markets). I have a feeling my next vehicle for the commute will be a diesel or a really cheap disposable petrol banger.
I owned the car outright at the 50,000 miles point, the car was then 3 years old and I had bought it new back in 2006. I had just moved to live with my now wife which took me away from where I work and has made me go from a 15 mile round trip to just short of 100 a day, 5 days a week.
As I knew every mile the car had driven and wanted to keep hold of this car for me it was the best choice instead of swapping out to run a diesel or keeping it on petrol.
The MPG on the journey before the conversion was 44mpg, afterwards it is 35mpg. This is in line with what the online calculator I used said - LPG hold 80% of the energy of petrol so the mpg has dropped by the same amount.
I'm generally hitting 10p/mile for the fuel costs on LPG which makes the 100 a day surviveable, petrol would be 13 to 14p/mile so £3 to £4 a day saving.
I've not looked recently but I think a diesel car would need to do 65mpg minimum in the real world for it to be comparable level of cost per day.
It could probably be done, but at the time as well the cost to change the known quantity of my own car to a used diesel equivelant would have eaten up at least £1000 and probably more.
I don't think I would pay again to convert one myself, I may buy one nearly new from a brand which already sold them converted (like Volvo or Vauxhall used to do in the UK and do in other markets). I have a feeling my next vehicle for the commute will be a diesel or a really cheap disposable petrol banger.
If you're looking at 'normal' cars, it's probably just better to get the diesel.
LPG is handy for cars of such an age and 'status' that they weren't really sold in diesel form. Large Jaguars, Mercedes, Range Rovers etc.
For these cars that are still superb but now worth buttons, solely as they use lots of petrol, LPG is a great solution. But get one that's already converted. A £2k conversion might add £500 to the value of the car - better let someone else do that bit.
That said, if you know for sure you'll have the car for many years, a small-engine small petrol car on LPG is as cheap as motoring gets, home-made bio-diesel aside.
LPG is handy for cars of such an age and 'status' that they weren't really sold in diesel form. Large Jaguars, Mercedes, Range Rovers etc.
For these cars that are still superb but now worth buttons, solely as they use lots of petrol, LPG is a great solution. But get one that's already converted. A £2k conversion might add £500 to the value of the car - better let someone else do that bit.
That said, if you know for sure you'll have the car for many years, a small-engine small petrol car on LPG is as cheap as motoring gets, home-made bio-diesel aside.
I ran a 2007 Volvo V70 that I converted in 2008 @15000 miles until July 2013 @ 104000.
In my ownership I enjoyed getting a full tank for under £45 that would take me around 270 to 300 miles. Had a very good installer/service centre nearby that would service system while I waited, slightly reduced VED & free Congestion Tax. No problem finding LPG except 1 time Sat Nav could not differentiate between North or South so put me into garage that did not sell it!!
I sold the car really easily too & had lots of calls. I changed Volvo for Merc E220 CDI & have to say fuel bill has remained virtually the same, but on long trips I'm better off diesel.
Still have a 2003 Astra that was LPG from factory as 2nd car. Would I do the workhorse as LPG again? No. Modern diesels are IMHO the way forward.
In my ownership I enjoyed getting a full tank for under £45 that would take me around 270 to 300 miles. Had a very good installer/service centre nearby that would service system while I waited, slightly reduced VED & free Congestion Tax. No problem finding LPG except 1 time Sat Nav could not differentiate between North or South so put me into garage that did not sell it!!
I sold the car really easily too & had lots of calls. I changed Volvo for Merc E220 CDI & have to say fuel bill has remained virtually the same, but on long trips I'm better off diesel.
Still have a 2003 Astra that was LPG from factory as 2nd car. Would I do the workhorse as LPG again? No. Modern diesels are IMHO the way forward.
Jim AK said:
I ran a 2007 Volvo V70 that I converted in 2008 @15000 miles until July 2013 @ 104000.
In my ownership I enjoyed getting a full tank for under £45 that would take me around 270 to 300 miles. Had a very good installer/service centre nearby that would service system while I waited, slightly reduced VED & free Congestion Tax. No problem finding LPG except 1 time Sat Nav could not differentiate between North or South so put me into garage that did not sell it!!
I sold the car really easily too & had lots of calls. I changed Volvo for Merc E220 CDI & have to say fuel bill has remained virtually the same, but on long trips I'm better off diesel.
Still have a 2003 Astra that was LPG from factory as 2nd car. Would I do the workhorse as LPG again? No. Modern diesels are IMHO the way forward.
Did you notice any difference pre and post servicing? In my ownership I enjoyed getting a full tank for under £45 that would take me around 270 to 300 miles. Had a very good installer/service centre nearby that would service system while I waited, slightly reduced VED & free Congestion Tax. No problem finding LPG except 1 time Sat Nav could not differentiate between North or South so put me into garage that did not sell it!!
I sold the car really easily too & had lots of calls. I changed Volvo for Merc E220 CDI & have to say fuel bill has remained virtually the same, but on long trips I'm better off diesel.
Still have a 2003 Astra that was LPG from factory as 2nd car. Would I do the workhorse as LPG again? No. Modern diesels are IMHO the way forward.
I understand it's just a laptop operation?
I'm wondering if I should get my E320 done?
Morning Speckled Jim. The car didn't really change TBH but you are right that it's not mich to service it, just filters &I don't think I ever had an invoice over £170 to do gas works.
I guess if you want to keep the E320, & who can blame you, a good system with flash lube should see you right.
I guess if you want to keep the E320, & who can blame you, a good system with flash lube should see you right.
Jim AK said:
Morning Speckled Jim. The car didn't really change TBH but you are right that it's not mich to service it, just filters &I don't think I ever had an invoice over £170 to do gas works.
I guess if you want to keep the E320, & who can blame you, a good system with flash lube should see you right.
Morning! Sorry, my phrasing was poor. The E320 is already on LPG, I was wondering if I should bother having it serviced, or whether I should I just change the filter myself. Is the laptop bit just a box-ticking exercise or do they make any meaningful adjustments?I guess if you want to keep the E320, & who can blame you, a good system with flash lube should see you right.
Sorry mate. Sort of thought I was answering a question you didn't ask!!
I would say you are doing the right thing & maybe if, for some reason, you had to visit the installer just get him to do the 'laptop' thing.
I considered a CGI gassed when I bought CDI but apparently they need some petrol 100% of the time due to the Common Rail needing petrol to cool/lube it??
I would say you are doing the right thing & maybe if, for some reason, you had to visit the installer just get him to do the 'laptop' thing.
I considered a CGI gassed when I bought CDI but apparently they need some petrol 100% of the time due to the Common Rail needing petrol to cool/lube it??
I have a Jeep Cherokee on LPG, and a Jaguar X350 (V8 4.2) on LPG. Previously had an old Jaguar Sovereign on LPG, and a Range Rover. I briefly had an old Silver Shadow with a very old/primitive kit on it....not so good !
A huge fan, if set up properly, there shouldn't be a massive difference if any in noticeable power.
My old Jag was converted at 80k, and was still going strong when I sold it 8 years later at 325k.
My Jeep has done 100k on its conversion (now on 150K), and my current Jag was done at 40k, and has just popped over the 100k mark.
I am paying 69p locally (although I remember the 29p days).
My Jaguar is far more economical than our 2 litre diesel Citroen estate that my wife drives.
The secret would appear to be
a) Buy a car already converted, and ensure it has a quality it fitted by a proper installer
b) Keep the LPG serviced and the filters changed etc
c) Run it on petrol every so often for a few miles just to ensure all of the petrol pump/rails/injectors are kept in serviceable condition.
A well converted car should not stall, misfire, backfire, throw up random engine management lights, or be noticeably different from running on petrol, but there are some horror stories of bad conversions done by cowboys out there.
A huge fan, if set up properly, there shouldn't be a massive difference if any in noticeable power.
My old Jag was converted at 80k, and was still going strong when I sold it 8 years later at 325k.
My Jeep has done 100k on its conversion (now on 150K), and my current Jag was done at 40k, and has just popped over the 100k mark.
I am paying 69p locally (although I remember the 29p days).
My Jaguar is far more economical than our 2 litre diesel Citroen estate that my wife drives.
The secret would appear to be
a) Buy a car already converted, and ensure it has a quality it fitted by a proper installer
b) Keep the LPG serviced and the filters changed etc
c) Run it on petrol every so often for a few miles just to ensure all of the petrol pump/rails/injectors are kept in serviceable condition.
A well converted car should not stall, misfire, backfire, throw up random engine management lights, or be noticeably different from running on petrol, but there are some horror stories of bad conversions done by cowboys out there.
Considered LPG'ing my old 525i which I have decided is a keeper, but I think I've decided against it for the following reasons;
-don't want to make a load of holes in the bodywork / underside for installation, making more places where rust can get in
-probably ought to retain my spare tyre
-problems with insurance, ferries, chunnel etc
-reduced power and MPG on gas
-the car would still use petrol, another factor forgotten by many.
-increased weight, complexity, servicing
-the car has a very low value so could be written off by a tiny bump
-the 525i is actually reasonably efficient on normal 95 RON.
-don't want to make a load of holes in the bodywork / underside for installation, making more places where rust can get in
-probably ought to retain my spare tyre
-problems with insurance, ferries, chunnel etc
-reduced power and MPG on gas
-the car would still use petrol, another factor forgotten by many.
-increased weight, complexity, servicing
-the car has a very low value so could be written off by a tiny bump
-the 525i is actually reasonably efficient on normal 95 RON.
I'm on my first LPG car. For me it is a way of running a large petrol that would otherwise be painfully costly on petrol as a daily drive doing 12k a year. If you are paying for the conversion yourself then you need to be planning on keeping the car for some time. As far as I can see you shouldn't expect to recoup any of the conversion costs when it comes time to trade in.
I bought a car with relatively low miles (for the engine) with a plan to convert and keep for at least 3-5 years. After 2years the conversion has paid for itself although I have had a few teething problems on the way and in the first 6 months having the garage who did the work local was handy.
Would I do it again? If I could buy a car ready converted, definitely. To get a conversion done maybe depending on the car.
Power loss, not had it on the rollers but none noticeable but starting with 400+ if I loose a few I probably wouldn't notice anyway.
I bought a car with relatively low miles (for the engine) with a plan to convert and keep for at least 3-5 years. After 2years the conversion has paid for itself although I have had a few teething problems on the way and in the first 6 months having the garage who did the work local was handy.
Would I do it again? If I could buy a car ready converted, definitely. To get a conversion done maybe depending on the car.
Power loss, not had it on the rollers but none noticeable but starting with 400+ if I loose a few I probably wouldn't notice anyway.
I ran a 4.4 Range Rover Vogue on LPG for 5 years. 70k miles, no trouble with it at all.
Power loss really is negligible and 68p a litre is a lot better than £1.40. When you do a lot of miles then it pays for itself in no time on a big bus like a Rangey.
I'm looking at getting a 4.2 supercharged converted now.
Power loss really is negligible and 68p a litre is a lot better than £1.40. When you do a lot of miles then it pays for itself in no time on a big bus like a Rangey.
I'm looking at getting a 4.2 supercharged converted now.
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