Discussion
Hello everyone.
I am on the cusp of replacing my London commuter car, a fiat 500 Abarth, with an ev. I drove and really liked the size/ range/ funky looks of the Zoe. Although I understand the battery lease makes these less attractive than a Leaf for some people, for me the savings on congestion charge etc outweigh this by far. I'd love an i3 but honestly feel more comfortable spending 15k than 30k as a new technology adopter.
So I am just curious as to what you other folks think of the Zoe and perhaps why there is very little mention if them on this forum.
Thank you!
I am on the cusp of replacing my London commuter car, a fiat 500 Abarth, with an ev. I drove and really liked the size/ range/ funky looks of the Zoe. Although I understand the battery lease makes these less attractive than a Leaf for some people, for me the savings on congestion charge etc outweigh this by far. I'd love an i3 but honestly feel more comfortable spending 15k than 30k as a new technology adopter.
So I am just curious as to what you other folks think of the Zoe and perhaps why there is very little mention if them on this forum.
Thank you!
squirejo said:
So I am just curious as to what you other folks think of the Zoe and perhaps why there is very little mention if them on this forum.
Thank you!
It has the wrong badge and everyone is creaming themselves over the i3 because it has the correct badge, even though it is twice the price!!Thank you!
Would be my guess.
Fair enough, but, the manufacturer most committed to ev tech with twizy, fluence, Zoe and vans all available today. There have been some really good reviews of the Zoe. I love the I3 and its engineering and design, but a high price to pay quite early in the game.
The Zoe has clever charging tech onboard, and, can now be charged from a 3 pin plug using a granny cable in addition to all other powers/ speeds using mennekes plug.
The Zoe has clever charging tech onboard, and, can now be charged from a 3 pin plug using a granny cable in addition to all other powers/ speeds using mennekes plug.
The Zoe is a fantastic car, has great technology, is a real looker and is great to drive.
Unfortunately I think many people have been waiting for the i3; just look at the love ins on this site for it, it is a fantastic car, looks great and has great tech however it cost £30k but it has the correct badge on the front.
Renault were there first and the Zoe does exactly the same thing, apart from a lack of range extender option; it has the wrong badge.
I've seen loads of i3's on the road already, the Zoe has been out about a year longer and I've seen a handful at best.
Wasn't aware that the Zoe can now be charged through a 3 pin plug, I should know as I sell Renault, having said that though even though we have a Zoe in the showroom we aren't an EV dealer.
Unfortunately I think many people have been waiting for the i3; just look at the love ins on this site for it, it is a fantastic car, looks great and has great tech however it cost £30k but it has the correct badge on the front.
Renault were there first and the Zoe does exactly the same thing, apart from a lack of range extender option; it has the wrong badge.
I've seen loads of i3's on the road already, the Zoe has been out about a year longer and I've seen a handful at best.
Wasn't aware that the Zoe can now be charged through a 3 pin plug, I should know as I sell Renault, having said that though even though we have a Zoe in the showroom we aren't an EV dealer.
I had a good look over a Zoe in a dealership and was very impressed - never seen one on the road though.
A couple of years ago battery longevity seemed to be a major psychological block for many people and the battery lease scheme seemed like a good idea. I don't think so many people are worrying about it now though - maybe increasing confidence in battery warranties, demonstrated longevity of hybrid packs and rapidly falling replacement costs are tipping the balance?
I certainly wouldn't buy a car with a battery lease now, which is a shame since in many ways I prefer the Zoe to the i3.
A couple of years ago battery longevity seemed to be a major psychological block for many people and the battery lease scheme seemed like a good idea. I don't think so many people are worrying about it now though - maybe increasing confidence in battery warranties, demonstrated longevity of hybrid packs and rapidly falling replacement costs are tipping the balance?
I certainly wouldn't buy a car with a battery lease now, which is a shame since in many ways I prefer the Zoe to the i3.
Do you lease the battery with the i3?
The reason Renault went down the lease route was to keep costs down; a battery is horrendous money and prices the car out of most peoples budget plus there is also the issue that people have with a battery slowly losing its efficiency over time, leasing the battery takes the worry away.
The reason Renault went down the lease route was to keep costs down; a battery is horrendous money and prices the car out of most peoples budget plus there is also the issue that people have with a battery slowly losing its efficiency over time, leasing the battery takes the worry away.
HTP99 said:
Do you lease the battery with the i3?
The reason Renault went down the lease route was to keep costs down; a battery is horrendous money and prices the car out of most peoples budget plus there is also the issue that people have with a battery slowly losing its efficiency over time, leasing the battery takes the worry away.
The i3 battery is bought outright with the car - neither the price nor the worry about it degrading seem to be putting people off.The reason Renault went down the lease route was to keep costs down; a battery is horrendous money and prices the car out of most peoples budget plus there is also the issue that people have with a battery slowly losing its efficiency over time, leasing the battery takes the worry away.
I wonder how Leaf sales are split between the battery lease ('Flex') and outright purchase options?
HTP99 said:
Do you lease the battery with the i3?
The reason Renault went down the lease route was to keep costs down; a battery is horrendous money and prices the car out of most peoples budget plus there is also the issue that people have with a battery slowly losing its efficiency over time, leasing the battery takes the worry away.
Or they know that the battery will be worth a fortune in scrap at the end of the cars lifeThe reason Renault went down the lease route was to keep costs down; a battery is horrendous money and prices the car out of most peoples budget plus there is also the issue that people have with a battery slowly losing its efficiency over time, leasing the battery takes the worry away.
Zoe comes standard with an efficient heater and fast (AC) charging. I haven't driven one, but it looks good and the engineering is interesting. So you'd think that it would sell well.
What lets it down:
1. Dealer support is patchy.
2. No charging from a standard 3 PIN plug (this is now resolved).
3. Battery lease not for everybody. Zoe is being launched in Norway without battery lease, so here's hoping...
The AC charging is potentially very useful if you already have (or can fit) 3 phase wiring to your house. Up to 22kW charging with the right wall box. Full charge at home in 1 hour
If Zoe had been available when I bought my Leaf, I would have chosen Zoe, simply because it looks much better IMO. Note that the main competition does not offer decent AC charging on the base model (Leaf) or a proper heater (Leaf and i3), so need to compare equivalent spec.
What lets it down:
1. Dealer support is patchy.
2. No charging from a standard 3 PIN plug (this is now resolved).
3. Battery lease not for everybody. Zoe is being launched in Norway without battery lease, so here's hoping...
The AC charging is potentially very useful if you already have (or can fit) 3 phase wiring to your house. Up to 22kW charging with the right wall box. Full charge at home in 1 hour
If Zoe had been available when I bought my Leaf, I would have chosen Zoe, simply because it looks much better IMO. Note that the main competition does not offer decent AC charging on the base model (Leaf) or a proper heater (Leaf and i3), so need to compare equivalent spec.
Email sent to patient dealer, I used one of those online brikerage sites and received price offers usefully below list (about 1k saving) so an all in price for proper spec of around 14k. Will be interested to see how quickly I will get it as they have 4 or 5 unregistered at their import centre.
Regarding residuals- I was impressed to see lots (prob10) 12mth old dealer demos sell quickly for between 11 and 12k, over the last month or so I have had my eyes peeled.
Regarding residuals- I was impressed to see lots (prob10) 12mth old dealer demos sell quickly for between 11 and 12k, over the last month or so I have had my eyes peeled.
3-pin plug will be released around May, however it really is for occasional use only. It will take around 13 hours for a full charge using the 3 pin plug. You can have a free 32 amp wall box installed in your home through the government scheme when you purchase a ZOE, which will give you 100% in around 3 to 4 hours. If you don't do it through the dealer you can upgrade the standard 16amp wall box from the government to 32amp for a cost of £99 which is fair.
ZOE has a lot of world firsts in the E.V. world too. But as mentioned, it isn't wearing the correct badge.
- Chameleon charger - 1 plug for fast or regular charging. The car will optimise which ever current you plug into it
- Reversible heat pump
- New generation regenerative braking
- Eco mode
- Pre-conditioning
- Z.E services app (set charging times/ check charge etc).
- R-link tablet which does all sorts.
Also, compared to i3, the boot is MASSIVE in ZOE (338 litres). The boot on an i3 is abysmal. That said i3 interior is a really nice place to sit, the media system is very good and it goes like a bloody rocket ship. Real life range on ZOE is around 80-90 miles, so similar to the electric version of the i3.
The battery rental route is for three main reasons, really.
1) If the battery capacity drops below 75%, it will be replaced or repaired free of charge. Why would you want to own the most costly thing to repair on the vehicle?
2) Secures the 2nd hand market and residuals (even though CAP won't give residual as there's no buy option). How confident would you be buying a 2nd hand EV with no guarantee on the battery?
3) It keeps the purchase price down and allows direct comparisons with ICE cars in the same segment.
ZOE has a lot of world firsts in the E.V. world too. But as mentioned, it isn't wearing the correct badge.
- Chameleon charger - 1 plug for fast or regular charging. The car will optimise which ever current you plug into it
- Reversible heat pump
- New generation regenerative braking
- Eco mode
- Pre-conditioning
- Z.E services app (set charging times/ check charge etc).
- R-link tablet which does all sorts.
Also, compared to i3, the boot is MASSIVE in ZOE (338 litres). The boot on an i3 is abysmal. That said i3 interior is a really nice place to sit, the media system is very good and it goes like a bloody rocket ship. Real life range on ZOE is around 80-90 miles, so similar to the electric version of the i3.
The battery rental route is for three main reasons, really.
1) If the battery capacity drops below 75%, it will be replaced or repaired free of charge. Why would you want to own the most costly thing to repair on the vehicle?
2) Secures the 2nd hand market and residuals (even though CAP won't give residual as there's no buy option). How confident would you be buying a 2nd hand EV with no guarantee on the battery?
3) It keeps the purchase price down and allows direct comparisons with ICE cars in the same segment.
The Boosh said:
The battery rental route is for three main reasons, really.
1) If the battery capacity drops below 75%, it will be replaced or repaired free of charge. Why would you want to own the most costly thing to repair on the vehicle?
2) Secures the 2nd hand market and residuals (even though CAP won't give residual as there's no buy option). How confident would you be buying a 2nd hand EV with no guarantee on the battery?
3) It keeps the purchase price down and allows direct comparisons with ICE cars in the same segment.
4) The manufacturer owns a big lump of expensive lithium which maybe worth a fortune at the end of the cars life1) If the battery capacity drops below 75%, it will be replaced or repaired free of charge. Why would you want to own the most costly thing to repair on the vehicle?
2) Secures the 2nd hand market and residuals (even though CAP won't give residual as there's no buy option). How confident would you be buying a 2nd hand EV with no guarantee on the battery?
3) It keeps the purchase price down and allows direct comparisons with ICE cars in the same segment.
Regarding the technological improvemnt on the battery; they were saying on the course that the technological advances in battery tech are so small and gradual that it'll most likely take many years before a demonstrably better battery is available.
Edited by HTP99 on Monday 14th April 12:46
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