No Tesla forum area?

[steveatesh]

Interesting thread, my next car will be EV and the Tesla S is certainly the best option at the moment, although the X looks good too.

Whilst most of my driving is start and finish from home I do have to go from the north east of England to Brighton around 4 times per year (354 mile journey). At Brighton it will have to be left in a public EV charging point, possibly stand there for several days until the return journey.

I notice that there are very few Superchargers near the M1, my plan would be to stop at whatever charging point I can find on a motorway service station and have about a break of 45 minutes to an hour. Realistically would this give me sufficient juice to complete the journey without running out?

[JonV8V]

steveatesh said:

Interesting thread, my next car will be EV and the Tesla S is certainly the best option at the moment, although the X looks good too.

Whilst most of my driving is start and finish from home I do have to go from the north east of England to Brighton around 4 times per year (354 mile journey). At Brighton it will have to be left in a public EV charging point, possibly stand there for several days until the return journey.

I notice that there are very few Superchargers near the M1, my plan would be to stop at whatever charging point I can find on a motorway service station and have about a break of 45 minutes to an hour. Realistically would this give me sufficient juice to complete the journey without running out?

I'd think carefully to be honest. There are lots of rave reviews but the reality is the car isn't finished and the infrastructure is not there. Current issues include very patchy support outside London which you will need, relatively frequent dead cars, heating that doesn't work ptoperly, panel gaps and glass fitting on a par with British Layland and so on, charging infrastructure that is increasingly being stretched. Driving wise, when it's on forum it's great. But can you live with the downsides? Depreciation is also mega - because the models do change the old becomes obsolete and there are current owners looking at a 1 first year depreciation of 25k. There is a real cult following who unfortunately just have a blinkered view so the chance to get an impartial view is nigh on impossible.

That sounds negative and it's not meant to be. It's just trying to add balance. A tesla has a completely different power train, that's it, although it does change the dynamics a fair bit. Not a lot else about the car is special that isn't better in any other £70k+ car. Maybe auto pilot but that's available on other cars too, just not quite as refined.

Edited by JonV8V on Tuesday 24th November 06:58

[oop north]

Agree with the fanatical pro tesla view shown by some owners - though as I don't have one so don't know first hand

I am currently considering a tesla to replace my current daily (discovery) or a BMW i3 as well as the daily (using disco for family trips and holidays that Thebi3 is too small for) as my mileage is increasing a lot (good contract hire rate plus tax efficiency + man maths means the i3 nearly pays for itself). The tesla would increase my electric miles quite a bit and be very good most of the time. But...

This weekend a trip to North Yorkshire would probably have failed in a tesla unless I did a detour on the way there or back that would have really annoyed the family (and me). Would like to go to a tesla but you are stuck with plan A - plan B might be a flatbed! With the Rex, an i3 would always be able to "get there" though it is too small for a family weekend away and isn't so much of a long distance car. That said, I know someone who does a huge amount of traveling around the country and he loves his tesla (he is a tax lecturer and is all over the country). The north east isn't so good for superchargers as the north west

If you want some more views join the speakev forum

The parking in a charging bay in brighton long term is a no no, though

[hornetrider]

bobbsie said:

- once in a car park my friend found 3 EV sockets. 2 weren't working so she used the 3rd. Returned to find her plug removed and someone else had plugged theirs in

Cheeky feckers. Does this happen a lot?

[JonV8V]

hornetrider said:

bobbsie said:

- once in a car park my friend found 3 EV sockets. 2 weren't working so she used the 3rd. Returned to find her plug removed and someone else had plugged theirs in

Cheeky feckers. Does this happen a lot?

Not with a tesla as I believe it locks the cable but charge point rage is an increasing event.

[JonV8V]

oop north said:

Agree with the fanatical pro tesla view shown by some owners - though as I don't have one so don't know first hand

I am currently considering a tesla to replace my current daily (discovery) or a BMW i3 as well as the daily (using disco for family trips and holidays that Thebi3 is too small for) as my mileage is increasing a lot (good contract hire rate plus tax efficiency + man maths means the i3 nearly pays for itself). The tesla would increase my electric miles quite a bit and be very good most of the time. But...

This weekend a trip to North Yorkshire would probably have failed in a tesla unless I did a detour on the way there or back that would have really annoyed the family (and me). Would like to go to a tesla but you are stuck with plan A - plan B might be a flatbed! With the Rex, an i3 would always be able to "get there" though it is too small for a family weekend away and isn't so much of a long distance car. That said, I know someone who does a huge amount of traveling around the country and he loves his tesla (he is a tax lecturer and is all over the country). The north east isn't so good for superchargers as the north west

If you want some more views join the speakev forum

The parking in a charging bay in brighton long term is a no no, though

You can do massive miles in a tesla if you go to the right places! Leeds and around there have one but further north and you're into ecotricity points.

And customer service gets patchy too. Live in London and they've lent people cars while they wait for delivery when their old car broke down - live more remote and they tell you to get yourself to pick up a hire car shed.

On the one hand I can accept the issues as they're growing but it would be wrong for anyone to think there are no issues.

[chandrew]

JonV8V said:

I'd think carefully to be honest. There are lots of rave reviews but the reality is the car isn't finished and the infrastructure is not there. Current issues include very patchy support outside London which you will need, relatively frequent dead cars, heating that doesn't work ptoperly, panel gaps and glass fitting on a par with British Layland and so on, charging infrastructure that is increasingly being stretched. Driving wise, when it's on forum it's great. But can you live with the downsides? Depreciation is also mega - because the models do change the old becomes obsolete and there are current owners looking at a 1 first year depreciation of 25k. There is a real cult following who unfortunately just have a blinkered view so the chance to get an impartial view is nigh on impossible.

That sounds negative and it's not meant to be. It's just trying to add balance. A tesla has a completely different power train, that's it, although it does change the dynamics a fair bit. Not a lot else about the car is special that isn't better in any other £70k+ car. Maybe auto pilot but that's available on other cars too, just not quite as refined.

Edited by JonV8V on Tuesday 24th November 06:58

I'm not sure I recognise some of those issues. Certainly here in Switzerland the depreciation seems a lot better than the usual German alternatives. We frequently see cars which have obviously done large distances - Dutch cars in Barcelona for example. Quality isn't perfect but has been increasing rapidly - it's certainly not BL levels on a new car. Their service is very good.

I don't worry that I couldn't do the trip from Zurich to my parents in Cumbria, but would need to use their power whilst there.

Here in Switzerland they're selling about the same number as Merc are selling the E class, 4X the sales of the XF, more than the Evoque.... This is in a country with no government EV incentives and petrol which is about 85p a litre. The big jump was when they moved to AWD (the jag can be had with AWD here)

It's certainly not on option for everyone, and the UK does seem to be playing catch-up in terms of infrastructure (we had them about a year before you). For me the two big pluses were (a) the quality of the drive, mostly in terms of the quietness and smoothness of the drive train (b) the significantly lower running costs / ownership costs.

[JonV8V]

chandrew said:

I'm not sure I recognise some of those issues. Certainly here in Switzerland the depreciation seems a lot better than the usual German alternatives. We frequently see cars which have obviously done large distances - Dutch cars in Barcelona for example. Quality isn't perfect but has been increasing rapidly - it's certainly not BL levels on a new car. Their service is very good.

I don't worry that I couldn't do the trip from Zurich to my parents in Cumbria, but would need to use their power whilst there.

Here in Switzerland they're selling about the same number as Merc are selling the E class, 4X the sales of the XF, more than the Evoque.... This is in a country with no government EV incentives and petrol which is about 85p a litre. The big jump was when they moved to AWD (the jag can be had with AWD here)

It's certainly not on option for everyone, and the UK does seem to be playing catch-up in terms of infrastructure (we had them about a year before you). For me the two big pluses were (a) the quality of the drive, mostly in terms of the quietness and smoothness of the drive train (b) the significantly lower running costs / ownership costs.

I guess everyones experience is different. I know of 2 people who are waiting for panels for bodywork repair, neither have even a provisional date and one has been waiting 4 weeks, the other 6 weeks so far. I know of two others with 12v battery fail issues on new cars, 1 car was a day old, the other 4 weeks. I know of glass not aligning properly. The heating they screwed up on the last major software update on most cars. Service bookings are a 3 month wait. All this has been highlighted in the last week or so. This is against a sample of owners.

Then the lead time for a new car is 4-6 months. People order a car, by the time they take delivery its been out of date, and if they want to upgrade they're offered low part ex. The P85+ was superseded by the P85D and then Auto Pilot came out. The good news was 85D had a free performance boost while waiting but the "I want the best" people were trumped by the P90D and then Ludicrous before they'd even taken delivery of their car! Order today, you may get a car in late Feb but probably March and the X will be promoted, maybe AP 2 hardware, who knows what the next change will be.

Then there's the whole mess over performance, how much power does it produce.

The car has a very interesting drive train, the aesthetics are very different. but its not a finished product and the infrastructure to support it has not kept up with the number of cars on the road and the associated issues. Maybe after the end of year rush to get new cars on the road (ie for Tesla financial year end results) things will improve.

[c2mike]

Well I have had my S85 since April and I am extremely impressed. And, no it has not broken down or fallen apart yet...

[hunter 66]

After years of the usual stuff , Ferrari , Porsche etc and race cars , have ordered a Tesla mainly due to the reports from many friends that have them . The back up is in another league ( Pick up from the airport and charge while away ,at no fee ) they really know how to look after their clients .
Not one issue of any sort from ALL of them ....
If only the likes of BMW /Jaguar etc could do that , when changing the world you need to work harder and it shows

[Amateurish]

JonV8V said:

But can you live with the downsides? Depreciation is also mega - because the models do change the old becomes obsolete and there are current owners looking at a 1 first year depreciation of 25k. There is a real cult following who unfortunately just have a blinkered view so the chance to get an impartial view is nigh on impossible.

Is that right? I thought the residuals were holding up well? And how does that compare to similar cars? And don't they guarantee 50% of value after 3 years?

[ricola]

There are lots of articles recently saying how it is a depreciation buster, particularly if you have the autopilot hardware. I plan on keeping mine for a while, it costs practically nothing to run compared to an ICE so even if depreciation is worse that could be factored in the overall picture.

[anonymous-user]

C

chandrew said:

I'm not sure I recognise some of those issues. Certainly here in Switzerland the depreciation seems a lot better than the usual German alternatives. We frequently see cars which have obviously done large distances - Dutch cars in Barcelona for example. Quality isn't perfect but has been increasing rapidly - it's certainly not BL levels on a new car. Their service is very good.

I don't worry that I couldn't do the trip from Zurich to my parents in Cumbria, but would need to use their power whilst there.

Here in Switzerland they're selling about the same number as Merc are selling the E class, 4X the sales of the XF, more than the Evoque.... This is in a country with no government EV incentives and petrol which is about 85p a litre. The big jump was when they moved to AWD (the jag can be had with AWD here)

It's certainly not on option for everyone, and the UK does seem to be playing catch-up in terms of infrastructure (we had them about a year before you). For me the two big pluses were (a) the quality of the drive, mostly in terms of the quietness and smoothness of the drive train (b) the significantly lower running costs / ownership costs.

Hi Andrew.

You've mentioned your trip to Cimbria before, would you mind telling us exactly how you do it, in terms of range between stops, where you charge up, how long you spend doing that and how long the trip takes you?

I make fairly frequent trips from Norfolk to the Haute Savoie region. At the moment we leave Norfolk mid afternoon and drive to Ashford where we stay over. Through the tunnel early the next day and I'm at my destination at 4 or 5 that afternoon, after a couple of short stops.

Returning, I leave the HS around midday and get to Saint Quentin by evening; stay over, then up to Calais the morning after, through the tunnel and I'm home by teatime.

How would I do that with a Tesla?

[Amateurish]

Amateurish said:

JonV8V said:

But can you live with the downsides? Depreciation is also mega - because the models do change the old becomes obsolete and there are current owners looking at a 1 first year depreciation of 25k. There is a real cult following who unfortunately just have a blinkered view so the chance to get an impartial view is nigh on impossible.

Is that right? I thought the residuals were holding up well? And how does that compare to similar cars? And don't they guarantee 50% of value after 3 years?

Further to JonV8V's claim that the Tesla has high depreciation, seems like CAP does not agree:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/motoring/car-r...

"New reports show the luxury electric car loses value slower than any other car, making it the ideal automotive investment.

CAP, which keeps track of used car values in the UK, says the value of a Tesla Model S has remained static for a year - a 'highly unusual' occurrence in the used car market.

The news means Tesla Model S cars will fall in value slower than other cars once they are driven off the forecourt, saving owners money in the long run."

[JonV8V]

I'm only quoting from real world experience of a user on the tesla owners group on Facebook. She wanted to upgrade a car less than one year old and was faced with a massive hit. Tesla want the best part of 10k difference between trade in and retail based on her experience.

Selling any 70k+ car within a year is painful. It can be better than a 7 series BMW and still cost to a lot of depreciation. It's not a cheap car. A p90dl with options is well into 100k - 3 years depreciation on the payback is still a 50k hit.

[Amateurish]

Of course depreciation will be worse if you buy top of the range, with lots of options. Anyone who buys new, then asks the dealer for a part ex quote after less than a year, is going to get a bit of a shock. You asked for an impartial view - surely CAP is a better gauge than one person on FB?

[JonV8V]

Amateurish said:

Of course depreciation will be worse if you buy top of the range, with lots of options. Anyone who buys new, then asks the dealer for a part ex quote after less than a year, is going to get a bit of a shock. You asked for an impartial view - surely CAP is a better gauge than one person on FB?

CAP are taking a 3 year view, the peren FB has real 1 year view. Both could be right. I've just sold my well spec'd 640d gran coupe which cost 65k after discount 3 years ago for mid 20k. The tesla should better that easily as a % but as it's starting over 10k higher a 50%+ drop is still a 40k hit about the same. Depends where you see depreciation as a % of a cash amount.

[98elise]

JonV8V said:

Amateurish said:

Of course depreciation will be worse if you buy top of the range, with lots of options. Anyone who buys new, then asks the dealer for a part ex quote after less than a year, is going to get a bit of a shock. You asked for an impartial view - surely CAP is a better gauge than one person on FB?

CAP are taking a 3 year view, the peren FB has real 1 year view. Both could be right. I've just sold my well spec'd 640d gran coupe which cost 65k after discount 3 years ago for mid 20k. The tesla should better that easily as a % but as it's starting over 10k higher a 50%+ drop is still a 40k hit about the same. Depends where you see depreciation as a % of a cash amount.

A sample of 1 is not going to be a very reliable source for "mega depreciation"

I would love a cheap tesla and keep an eye on autotrader no real bargains to be had yet.

[anonymous-user]

JonV8V said:

Amateurish said:

Of course depreciation will be worse if you buy top of the range, with lots of options. Anyone who buys new, then asks the dealer for a part ex quote after less than a year, is going to get a bit of a shock. You asked for an impartial view - surely CAP is a better gauge than one person on FB?

CAP are taking a 3 year view, the peren FB has real 1 year view. Both could be right. I've just sold my well spec'd 640d gran coupe which cost 65k after discount 3 years ago for mid 20k. The tesla should better that easily as a % but as it's starting over 10k higher a 50%+ drop is still a 40k hit about the same. Depends where you see depreciation as a % of a cash amount.

I would think the Tesla has a significant edge at the moment due to the novelty value of its power system and the lack of numbers of them to buy used. When the numbers increase I reckon the depreciation will also increase, especially if they continually improve the specifications as they have.

I see no reason at all why they would be better than anything else, long term, it's only supply and demand and they are going to be a limited market for quite some time until the real world range increases. Personally, I don't see it as a problem, a big, prestige car is always going to cost in terms of depreciation.

I've looked at an S and can't make it make sense for me. I'm asking questions in various places about how people make long journeys in them but I'm getting very little solid information back.

For me, the car needs to be competitive in terms of quality, overall performance (as opposed to just better away from the lights) cost and, within reason, useable range. The attraction of the propulsion system would then be hard to resist. IMO they aren't there yet but I am open to persuasion.

[ukshooter]

I have had my Tesla for 11 months and 25,000 miles. I have recently changed a pair of tyres (due to picking up a gash in one so changed the pair). Only other thing I have done is add screen wash.

As for long journeys, I drove to the Geneva Motor show from Reading last March. Started with a full charge early am, drove to Calais via tunnel and stopped at Tesla supercharger to get full again whilst having some breakfast at the hotel adjacent. We were charging for about 1 hour 15 minutes.

Next step was Senlis near Paris and stopped for lunch and a full charge again (around 1 hour 10 minutes).

Bad traffic getting out of Paris meant the whole journey extended by about an hour compared to last years trip in a Range Rover. Stopped at Auxerre next for about 40 minutes to charge then on to Macon for another charge. could have got away with a 10 minute charge to get to Geneva but charged for about 30 minutes. Stayed at the Best Western just on French side of Geneva at Archamps as great rate and Tesla superchargers outside!
Next day was spent at the show, drove into the city to collect a friend and then parked up at the airport parking, returning to Archamps in the evening.

Started the next morning with a full charge and decided to avoid Senlis on route back. So, stopped at Nuits-St George instead, can't remember for how long, then on to a Temporary supercharger spot near Arras and finally back to Calais to top up before getting home.

Anyway, I now have a Chademo adaptor for the fast charging non Tesla sites and would say that on the whole no issues with using it as a long distance vehicle unless my home base was West Wales, East Coast of Suffolk/Norfolk or the Mid to North Scotland.