Nissan Leaf taxi hit 100k, 98% battery range left
Discussion
So a Taxi firm has their first post-2013 Nissan Leaf hit the 100,000 mile mark...
Still holding 98% charger on original battery (Range is calculated on past driving style).
https://twitter.com/candctaxis
Still holding 98% charger on original battery (Range is calculated on past driving style).
https://twitter.com/candctaxis
You can do the maths on the cost saving.
Leaf in Taxi spec, if you negotiated hard, would be 15K or less (and you could also claim back the VAT on that - I think).
Run it for 100,000 miles versus a 50mpg diesel (and good luck getting that mpg round town - but it makes the arithmetic easy).
Diesel car requires 2000 gallons @ £6 a gallon (ish - it's up and down I know, but again makes the sums easy).
£12000 of fuel for the diesel taxi. Plus at least four lots of consumables like oil, filter, pads, discs etc.
100,000 miles of electric at 3.5 miles per kWh (5p per kWh on E7 ... industrial tariffs are cheaper than domestic so it's not a bad guess, especially as I've been generous on the diesel mpg) would be 28571 kWh ~ £1500 of electricity. Leafs consumables are ... none really (apparently the taxi is still on its original brake pads,thanks to regenerative braking)
So something like £10500 saving on fuel, plus the servicing costs (£500? £1000?).
Therefore, at the 100,000 mile mark you can more or less chuck the Leaf away and buy a new one out of your cost savings.
Leaf in Taxi spec, if you negotiated hard, would be 15K or less (and you could also claim back the VAT on that - I think).
Run it for 100,000 miles versus a 50mpg diesel (and good luck getting that mpg round town - but it makes the arithmetic easy).
Diesel car requires 2000 gallons @ £6 a gallon (ish - it's up and down I know, but again makes the sums easy).
£12000 of fuel for the diesel taxi. Plus at least four lots of consumables like oil, filter, pads, discs etc.
100,000 miles of electric at 3.5 miles per kWh (5p per kWh on E7 ... industrial tariffs are cheaper than domestic so it's not a bad guess, especially as I've been generous on the diesel mpg) would be 28571 kWh ~ £1500 of electricity. Leafs consumables are ... none really (apparently the taxi is still on its original brake pads,thanks to regenerative braking)
So something like £10500 saving on fuel, plus the servicing costs (£500? £1000?).
Therefore, at the 100,000 mile mark you can more or less chuck the Leaf away and buy a new one out of your cost savings.
pboyall said:
So something like £10500 saving on fuel, plus the servicing costs (£500? £1000?).
Wouldn't that be 10 services, at about £200-300 not factoring in the stuff that would have failed. so £2000-3000. For the Internal Combustion Car.I wonder if they have had to change any suspension/drive parts that a lot of mileage for the original rubber bits.
Don't forget one small detail. That Leaf has been on charge for half the day. One diesel, hot-seated, could do the job of two Leafs - and the Leaf would have to be hot-seated, unless the driver was on a split shift. OK, so jobs aren't even throughout the 24hrs - call it two diesels to do the job of three Leafs.
There's one other thing that makes me scratch my head here... I can see a Leaf having merits in a big city, but in Cornwall? I'd have thought there'd be a lot of fairly long-distance jobs there. I'm in the sticks, and two return trips to my nearest big supermarket is the entire range gone.
There's one other thing that makes me scratch my head here... I can see a Leaf having merits in a big city, but in Cornwall? I'd have thought there'd be a lot of fairly long-distance jobs there. I'm in the sticks, and two return trips to my nearest big supermarket is the entire range gone.
Not really - the way that C&C taxis use their Leaf, it's either driving or charging. So it's not like they leave it charging up for 8 hours and then don't charge it again until the next night.
They have a few rapids around there, so I understand that they give it 5-10 minute squirts every now and then.
I do agree with you though, Cornwall does seem a weird place to have electric Taxis. You would think London, Leeds, Manchester ...
They have a few rapids around there, so I understand that they give it 5-10 minute squirts every now and then.
I do agree with you though, Cornwall does seem a weird place to have electric Taxis. You would think London, Leeds, Manchester ...
The numbers and practicality clear work for other Taxi companies too...This is a different company in a different part of the county from C&C Taxi. Looks like these guys started using the Leaf in Feb and now expanding their EV fleet. If Taxi companies find the Leaf works well enough for them, than I think thats good enough proof for many people even an EV with a range of 100 miles on a charge is good enough day to day 
budfox said:
When I was considering a Leaf my biggest worry was loss of battery capacity over the years but I don't think I've seen any Leaf in the UK lose a single battery bar yet.
Well mine lost its first bar last week @ 56k miles and 4 years old 
. Only fast charged a dozen times or so (good), always to 100% overnight at home (100% is bad), but never at 100% long term (good - battery does not like being at 100% for extended periods).It is one of the first UK leafs - early 2011. I think the newer ones are better, but not sure I'd trust the "98%" reading referred to above. Still, impressive to have 12 bars after 100k miles.
Capacity loss in hot climates states in the US is scary. Cars parked overnight in hot garages, etc. and no active battery cooling on the Leaf.
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Battery_...
A good test is to see how many miles of driving before the first range (long) bar disappears. This will show the gradual degradation.
Edited by c2mike on Friday 22 May 21:54
TooMany2cvs said:
Don't forget one small detail. That Leaf has been on charge for half the day.
Leaf taxis use rapid chargers: 80% charge in 30 minutes, 100% charge in an hour.There's one in York, and I've been told that they just plug it in to a rapid while it's waiting for its turn, and unplug when it's called. Since all taxis have to wait their turn for jobs, it's not actually losing out on any jobs.
Yes, I think they changed the battery chemistry between the two generations, it will be interesting to see when the first Gen2 ones lose their first bar.
I suspect the 98% in the photo is total charge, rather than battery capacity (which I think I saw somewhere had dropped off by at least 5 and maybe 10%)
I suspect the 98% in the photo is total charge, rather than battery capacity (which I think I saw somewhere had dropped off by at least 5 and maybe 10%)
Mine lost its first bar recently at approx. 3 years, 24K. Statistics on a USA forum suggest this is about average.
Never fast charged it or snailed. Was an ex demo car so I guess the dealer may have left it standing around at 100%. Did 700 miles in it's first year before I got it. Most miles done at approx. 60 mph on my motorway commute.
Never fast charged it or snailed. Was an ex demo car so I guess the dealer may have left it standing around at 100%. Did 700 miles in it's first year before I got it. Most miles done at approx. 60 mph on my motorway commute.
rudebhoy said:
So the indicator isn't like a mobile phone one for example. My phone will always tell me its 100% charged even though I get a lot less usage time than i did when it was brand new. Looks like the leaf however never goes to 100% on a used battery?
There are 2 measures of the battery in the Leaf:1) The "short bars" on the far right represent the estimated total battery capacity. Maximum is 12 bars. Mine has lost a bar, so now permanently shows 11, regardless of the charge level in the battery.
2) The "long bars" represent the current level of charge. Maximum is 12 bars. Mine still shows 12 long bars when fully charged, but each long bar is worth less than before due to the capacity loss.
Facelift Leafs also have a "%" gauge which is another way of showing the current level of charge - i.e. #2 above. In the OP's example, it is 98% charged. It should still charge to 100%, but this will represent less actual kWHr over time. I.e. the % is not the battery capacity, but the level of charge. Realistically this Leaf has probably lost a bit, but obviously not enough to lose its first small bar. Impressive, but the capacity loss is probably more than 2%!
Incidentally the first (top) capacity bar is apparently more than 1/12 of total capacity. I wonder why?
granada203028 said:
Mine lost its first bar recently at approx. 3 years, 24K. Statistics on a USA forum suggest this is about average.
Never fast charged it or snailed. Was an ex demo car so I guess the dealer may have left it standing around at 100%. Did 700 miles in it's first year before I got it. Most miles done at approx. 60 mph on my motorway commute.
For a UK Leaf that is terrible. Keep driving it and you may get into battery warranty territory (below 9 bars in under 62k miles I think)Never fast charged it or snailed. Was an ex demo car so I guess the dealer may have left it standing around at 100%. Did 700 miles in it's first year before I got it. Most miles done at approx. 60 mph on my motorway commute.
I can't immediately find the USA statistics, I will have to look further.
Have I been unlucky or is it unsympathetic use? For the fist 6 months I did my 43 mile round trip commute on the one over night charge. Initially in the summer 80% charged (10 bars showing) 4 bars each way, 2 bars left at home in the evening. In the winter needed 5 bars each way so looked marginal so had to charge 100% for a month or two over night. Then work put in a 13A socket so now I charge 80% at night and manually charge 2 - 3 hours at work in the morning. Heater makes a big difference.
I've had the car dealer serviced twice and they made no comment on the battery and I didn't ask. Just after the last service did the capacity bar disappear. Can I get it tested?
Have I been unlucky or is it unsympathetic use? For the fist 6 months I did my 43 mile round trip commute on the one over night charge. Initially in the summer 80% charged (10 bars showing) 4 bars each way, 2 bars left at home in the evening. In the winter needed 5 bars each way so looked marginal so had to charge 100% for a month or two over night. Then work put in a 13A socket so now I charge 80% at night and manually charge 2 - 3 hours at work in the morning. Heater makes a big difference.
I've had the car dealer serviced twice and they made no comment on the battery and I didn't ask. Just after the last service did the capacity bar disappear. Can I get it tested?
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff