Model S 90D - high mileage, range, depreciation & other bits
Discussion
I have a theoretical answer my problem. Install a charger at every site. (I/My companies own the sites I travel to so this isn't a big deal.) This is obviously cost dependant. But in theory, if I can charge overnight and whilst at each site, I should be OK. I'm typically on site for at least 3 hours. Usually more.
Not sure why I didn't think of that before?!
Naturally this depends on having a suitable charger installed at each site which will recharge the battery sufficiently for me to get home. The superchargers at the services would be the backup in case of an emergency.
Not sure why I didn't think of that before?!
Naturally this depends on having a suitable charger installed at each site which will recharge the battery sufficiently for me to get home. The superchargers at the services would be the backup in case of an emergency.
Edited by aporschefan on Saturday 2nd January 02:35
aporschefan said:
Install a charger at every site.
Assuming this is possible and affordable, I could save £2.6k by not specifying the Range Upgrade. Or would you suggest specifying it anyway? Thinking about it, the range upgrade is an additional 6% best case, in the real world this may be 4 or 5%? Even at 6% (assuming real world figure of 250 miles from the 85D), that gives 265 miles, an additional 15 miles at best per full charge. That's not a lot for £2.6k. It makes sense to save the money on the upgrade and put it towards installing charger at each site. Doesn't it?
Your thoughts?
You'd only need them at Evesham and Birmingham, a cheap commando on a 32a supply would give you 60 miles of charge in 3 hours at each meaning you're below 200 miles over night. Other installs would be a bonus.
If theyre premises with 3 phase supply you'd be better off spending a grand on a dual charger in the car, get 40+ miles of charge an hour (min of 120 miles of charge every stop) and not get the battery upgrade.
You're over thinking it which to me suggests you've not yet made the mindset shift of what it means to become electric. Your work trips you're trying to sort, but what about the day you want/need to go further, the emergency trip you weren't planning, the day the m40 is closed due to an accident etc.? Spend half an hour with zap map or plugshare looking at charging locations and think about all the places you've ever driven to and how you'd do them, are you the type who likes to stop to get a coffee and have a comfort break as even 15min stops can be beneficial. But then are you the type who will get frustrated if a petrol car is blocking the only available charging point and you have to wait for them to return? The whole EV thing requires more planning and more patience.
If theyre premises with 3 phase supply you'd be better off spending a grand on a dual charger in the car, get 40+ miles of charge an hour (min of 120 miles of charge every stop) and not get the battery upgrade.
You're over thinking it which to me suggests you've not yet made the mindset shift of what it means to become electric. Your work trips you're trying to sort, but what about the day you want/need to go further, the emergency trip you weren't planning, the day the m40 is closed due to an accident etc.? Spend half an hour with zap map or plugshare looking at charging locations and think about all the places you've ever driven to and how you'd do them, are you the type who likes to stop to get a coffee and have a comfort break as even 15min stops can be beneficial. But then are you the type who will get frustrated if a petrol car is blocking the only available charging point and you have to wait for them to return? The whole EV thing requires more planning and more patience.
Edited by JonV8V on Saturday 2nd January 07:21
If you are going to run an EV.
1) Get the one with the most range possible that you can afford. If it has a quick charge option - take it.
2) Plan every journey before undertaking it. Google maps shows what is possible.
3) Allow a margin for error - say 15 to 20%
4) Accept that it will not do everything. Some journeys are ones you will have to do another way, either public transport or dino-juice fuelled.
I'm able to do 99% of my motoring with a Nissan Leaf with just 90 miles range. I have a 30 mile physical commute. Greater distances I can do virtually.
It looks like you've thought through your journeys and that the Tesla would do them. So long as you have a petrol runner it's job done. Go for it.
1) Get the one with the most range possible that you can afford. If it has a quick charge option - take it.
2) Plan every journey before undertaking it. Google maps shows what is possible.
3) Allow a margin for error - say 15 to 20%
4) Accept that it will not do everything. Some journeys are ones you will have to do another way, either public transport or dino-juice fuelled.
I'm able to do 99% of my motoring with a Nissan Leaf with just 90 miles range. I have a 30 mile physical commute. Greater distances I can do virtually.
It looks like you've thought through your journeys and that the Tesla would do them. So long as you have a petrol runner it's job done. Go for it.
Don said:
If you are going to run an EV.
1) Get the one with the most range possible that you can afford. If it has a quick charge option - take it.
2) Plan every journey before undertaking it. Google maps shows what is possible.
3) Allow a margin for error - say 15 to 20%
4) Accept that it will not do everything. Some journeys are ones you will have to do another way, either public transport or dino-juice fuelled.
I think your confusing Leaf ownership with Tesla ownership 1) Get the one with the most range possible that you can afford. If it has a quick charge option - take it.
2) Plan every journey before undertaking it. Google maps shows what is possible.
3) Allow a margin for error - say 15 to 20%
4) Accept that it will not do everything. Some journeys are ones you will have to do another way, either public transport or dino-juice fuelled.
I do all of the above in my Leaf, but the one thing I didn't even need to worry about when I test drove a Model S was range. Infact if I had done the test drive route in the Leaf I would have been glancing nervously at the charge status, in the Model S it was only at the end of the test drive I realised I didn't even know what the range of the car was before/after.
Yes you still have to plan for long trips, but the Model S shows up the Leaf for what it really is...A city commuter car, which it is very very good at.
I run a Model S90D through my business and use it for long range travel, keeping the fun petrol burners for more local trips. It's perfectly doable in the Tesla, but you need to plan ahead and adapt your driving style if you're trying to maximise range. On a longer journey, doing 80-85 on a motorway will see range of circa 190 miles. Dropping speed to 70-75 will see a far better range of around 240.
Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
Lozrington said:
I run a Model S90D through my business and use it for long range travel, keeping the fun petrol burners for more local trips. It's perfectly doable in the Tesla, but you need to plan ahead and adapt your driving style if you're trying to maximise range. On a longer journey, doing 80-85 on a motorway will see range of circa 190 miles. Dropping speed to 70-s75 will see a far better range of around 240.
Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
Could you give us an example of one of your 'long range travel' trips? From where to where, average speed, number of stops and how long for?Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
Try as I might, from everything I can glean I can't make a Tesla work for me. ( no commutes, regular (2/3 a month) 200 to 600 mile round trips with overnights).
gangzoom said:
Don said:
If you are going to run an EV.
1) Get the one with the most range possible that you can afford. If it has a quick charge option - take it.
2) Plan every journey before undertaking it. Google maps shows what is possible.
3) Allow a margin for error - say 15 to 20%
4) Accept that it will not do everything. Some journeys are ones you will have to do another way, either public transport or dino-juice fuelled.
I think your confusing Leaf ownership with Tesla ownership 1) Get the one with the most range possible that you can afford. If it has a quick charge option - take it.
2) Plan every journey before undertaking it. Google maps shows what is possible.
3) Allow a margin for error - say 15 to 20%
4) Accept that it will not do everything. Some journeys are ones you will have to do another way, either public transport or dino-juice fuelled.
I do all of the above in my Leaf, but the one thing I didn't even need to worry about when I test drove a Model S was range. Infact if I had done the test drive route in the Leaf I would have been glancing nervously at the charge status, in the Model S it was only at the end of the test drive I realised I didn't even know what the range of the car was before/after.
Yes you still have to plan for long trips, but the Model S shows up the Leaf for what it really is...A city commuter car, which it is very very good at.
Charging stations are rarer than petrol stations for the moment. When every petrol place has a fast charger then I'll stop worrying about planning.
Lozrington said:
I run a Model S90D through my business and use it for long range travel, keeping the fun petrol burners for more local trips. It's perfectly doable in the Tesla, but you need to plan ahead and adapt your driving style if you're trying to maximise range. On a longer journey, doing 80-85 on a motorway will see range of circa 190 miles. Dropping speed to 70-75 will see a far better range of around 240.
Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
This is great to hear. I'll be looking for a pre-depreciated one in a few years, I think. Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
REALIST123 said:
Could you give us an example of one of your 'long range travel' trips? From where to where, average speed, number of stops and how long for?
Try as I might, from everything I can glean I can't make a Tesla work for me. ( no commutes, regular (2/3 a month) 200 to 600 mile round trips with overnights).
I did Staffordshire to Lingfield via a detour in Lichfield and back last week, all within a day - about 375 miles. Stopped at Oxford services for a 15 min comfort break/coffee and super charged. From there to Lingfield and back. Had a late lunch and charged, home. Going was 50 mph head wind and back was in torrential rain, neither of which are good for economy. Try as I might, from everything I can glean I can't make a Tesla work for me. ( no commutes, regular (2/3 a month) 200 to 600 mile round trips with overnights).
Other options included a charge at west Drayton/Heathrow and hopwood services/Birmingham if I was short or wanted to boost to give me more range in those areas.
Travel into Wales or Norfolk and it's not so easy.
REALIST123 said:
Could you give us an example of one of your 'long range travel' trips? From where to where, average speed, number of stops and how long for?
Try as I might, from everything I can glean I can't make a Tesla work for me. ( no commutes, regular (2/3 a month) 200 to 600 mile round trips with overnights).
It depends on whether you're taking-in a supercharger en route, what your schedule is, what the traffic conditions are etc. For example, I went to Birmingham (from near Gatwick) the other week and was concerned about hitting the m25 traffic, so left around 6.30am. I made good progress and was in Bimingham centre by 9am- so popped along to the supercharger for 45mins before my 10.30 meeting. Leaving Birmingham fully charged at 1pm, I went to Bristol and then came back via Reading and stopped again for 15mins to top-up at Green Park. Back home around 7pm. Don't know total mileage and possibly didn't need the 2nd stop, but that's a typical long-range route. You need to build-in a contingency for the extra stops/time it takes to divert, but it just takes thinking about a bit more, that's all.Try as I might, from everything I can glean I can't make a Tesla work for me. ( no commutes, regular (2/3 a month) 200 to 600 mile round trips with overnights).
I would just plan to stop off at Oxford or Northampton on the way back (or way there, if I was early) for a charge - stop for 30 minutes, go to the toilet, buy a bottle of water, check the emails, make some calls. In a 30 minute stop you will have added 150 to 200 miles, so plenty. Saves doing a full charge at home too. I know people will hate the prospect of stopping, but it is good for you and takes the stress of range away completely.
Is the range increase worth it too? Would it really change your behaviour? I'm not sure its worth it.
Is the range increase worth it too? Would it really change your behaviour? I'm not sure its worth it.
In short, completely inappropriate for your intended usage, OP. I don't consider adding half an hour to an hour to a journey a minor inconvenience. That is time I could spend with my family or doing one of the million things that are much more fun than hanging out at a service station. It adds up to days over the course of a year.
Lozrington said:
I run a Model S90D through my business and use it for long range travel, keeping the fun petrol burners for more local trips. It's perfectly doable in the Tesla, but you need to plan ahead and adapt your driving style if you're trying to maximise range. On a longer journey, doing 80-85 on a motorway will see range of circa 190 miles. Dropping speed to 70-75 will see a far better range of around 240.
Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
This is the most accurate non-exaggerating, real world post covering range and charging I've seen for a while! How are you finding the colder weather and your range? Most owners I speak to talk of easily achieving 220 miles but is this still the case over winter? Regarding charging, my 13amp 3 pin socket at home provides 6mph charge, whereas the 32amp 11kw charger at the office gives around 30mph. My partner has a slightly faster single phase charger at home that gives 11mph. Th supercharges are amazing- I saw 250mph charging the other day!
They're great cars and a lot of fun to drive. The rear seats are very comfortable and I get no complaints from my family, in fact they love it as much as I do.
I suppose some lower speeds due to the poorer conditions might counter-act the higher energy consumption in colder temps?
ORD said:
In short, completely inappropriate for your intended usage, OP. I don't consider adding half an hour to an hour to a journey a minor inconvenience. That is time I could spend with my family or doing one of the million things that are much more fun than hanging out at a service station. It adds up to days over the course of a year.
Where do get your timings from? Longest is 250 mile trip, needs a 50 mile top up if he can't charge at his destinations which he may be able to do, and at 200mph+ charging that's 15 mins while he gets a coffee. I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
JonV8V said:
Where do get your timings from? Longest is 250 mile trip, needs a 50 mile top up if he can't charge at his destinations which he may be able to do, and at 200mph+ charging that's 15 mins while he gets a coffee.
I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
TBH, ignoring the numbers issue, I agree somewhat with the point ODR is making. That said, and as you've already pointed out, I'm able to install chargers at each site so it's not an issue. I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
PKLD said:
This is the most accurate non-exaggerating, real world post covering range and charging I've seen for a while! How are you finding the colder weather and your range? Most owners I speak to talk of easily achieving 220 miles but is this still the case over winter?
I suppose some lower speeds due to the poorer conditions might counter-act the higher energy consumption in colder temps?
The colder weather certainly impacts on range to some extent and if I had to guess I'd say maybe 5%. This can be helped a lot by Pre-heating whilst still plugged in. The ranges I've quoted are based on ownership since October last year, so not had usage during summer months yet.I suppose some lower speeds due to the poorer conditions might counter-act the higher energy consumption in colder temps?
You're also right about adapting driving style/speed depending on what range is needed- this is the case whatever the weather really, so enforced slower driving due to heavy rain (for example) will help range.
You can become a little bit geeky about efficiency and get a small sense of satisfaction when you achieve the predicted energy consumption on a trip.
When range doesn't matter though, it's brilliant to use the seamless and huge power delivery to maintain good progress- an example is a fast roundabout on a dual carriageway; you might be using autopilot as you approach, flick this off and use the regenerative braking to scrub off excess speed, the back on the pedal to power through the roundabout (assuming it's clear/safe) and back up to cruising speed in the blink of an eye. Any other cars coming out of the roundabout can be passed as if they're standing still. The low centre of gravity works really well in this type of situation and fast sweeping corners are a joy- it will cope well with twisties but these will ultimately show up the considerable weight of the car.
aporschefan said:
JonV8V said:
Where do get your timings from? Longest is 250 mile trip, needs a 50 mile top up if he can't charge at his destinations which he may be able to do, and at 200mph+ charging that's 15 mins while he gets a coffee.
I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
TBH, ignoring the numbers issue, I agree somewhat with the point ODR is making. That said, and as you've already pointed out, I'm able to install chargers at each site so it's not an issue. I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
I sat yesterday at Keele on my way home, filled up in 50 mins, caught up on email, saved £10, and when I got home I wasn't distracted at all and gave my family 100%. It's how you want to see it.
JonV8V said:
Where do get your timings from? Longest is 250 mile trip, needs a 50 mile top up if he can't charge at his destinations which he may be able to do, and at 200mph+ charging that's 15 mins while he gets a coffee.
I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
Seriously? You would be aiming to get home with 0 on the clock? No account of lower mileage than expected? No accounting for diversions? I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
Utterly unrealistic. If I were the OP, I would be imagining hours staring at the miles remaining, dawdling at 65 on the motorway and hoping like hell that I make it home. Not much fun.
ORD said:
JonV8V said:
Where do get your timings from? Longest is 250 mile trip, needs a 50 mile top up if he can't charge at his destinations which he may be able to do, and at 200mph+ charging that's 15 mins while he gets a coffee.
I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
Seriously? You would be aiming to get home with 0 on the clock? No account of lower mileage than expected? No accounting for diversions? I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
Utterly unrealistic. If I were the OP, I would be imagining hours staring at the miles remaining, dawdling at 65 on the motorway and hoping like hell that I make it home. Not much fun.
The car has 230 miles range at 90% so he'd still have a 30 mile buffer and more like 50 if he charged to 100% so he'd have a bit in the tank if he chose to be spirited on his route.
Edited by JonV8V on Tuesday 5th January 08:56
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