I8 values in free fall....Why?

I8 values in free fall....Why?

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Discussion

MrOrange

2,031 posts

252 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
rb5er said:
A £3k engine rebuild is not comparable to £20k battery pack.

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 2nd February 11:21
I'm not sure any modern performance car engine can be rebuilt with a manufacturer warranty for £3k. Also, a new battery pack may cost £20k to purchase (unlikely for 7kWh in the i8) but the old pack would still have a substantial value for refurbing/recycling potentially reducing the cost to sub £10k - a figure that might be more acceptable to spend every 10 years (£20 a week)

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
Richyboy said:
what happens when they bring out a battery with useable range?
I guess these things will need to be interchangeable so cars can be updated as technology advances.

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
MrOrange said:
rb5er said:
A £3k engine rebuild is not comparable to £20k battery pack.

Edited by rb5er on Tuesday 2nd February 11:21
I'm not sure any modern performance car engine can be rebuilt with a manufacturer warranty for £3k. Also, a new battery pack may cost £20k to purchase (unlikely for 7kWh in the i8) but the old pack would still have a substantial value for refurbing/recycling potentially reducing the cost to sub £10k - a figure that might be more acceptable to spend every 10 years (£20 a week)
Who said anything about manufacturer warranty? A well rebuilt engine should not require one.

When you spread anything out over 10 years yes its not quite so bad, like a mortgage.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I was merely suggesting that a very expensive to replace component "may" result in a drop in prices. So far nobody here can confirm if batteries cost £200 or £50,000.

purpleperil

1,212 posts

283 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
rb5er said:
So far nobody here can confirm if batteries cost £200 or £50,000.
Probably because it's irrelevant for 8 years or 100,000 miles - by which time battery tech will have moved on and replacement should be at a lower cost than it would be now?

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
purpleperil said:
Probably because it's irrelevant for 8 years or 100,000 miles - by which time battery tech will have moved on and replacement should be at a lower cost than it would be now?
Irrelevant how? Some drivers can clock up 50k miles in a year or a fair bit more although I doubt this would have the range. And you know battery tech will move on massively in just 8 years how? Sounds like pure speculation which is why I was enquiring about factual numbers but nobody seems to know costs.

modeller

443 posts

165 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
To replace a complete pack on an i3 (22kwh) is $13K, so divide that by three for an i8.
That's to replace all the modules which would only ever occur if something catastrophic happened. In reality the battery gradually fades (like an IC engine) with some modules fading faster than others. It's these that you'd replace, so the cost get back upto 80+% would be much less.
Also an i8, even if it lost 50% would only lose 10m of range.
So for this car, the battery replacement cost is a red herring.

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
modeller said:
To replace a complete pack on an i3 (22kwh) is $13K, so divide that by three for an i8.
That's to replace all the modules which would only ever occur if something catastrophic happened. In reality the battery gradually fades (like an IC engine) with some modules fading faster than others. It's these that you'd replace, so the cost get back upto 80+% would be much less.
Also an i8, even if it lost 50% would only lose 10m of range.
So for this car, the battery replacement cost is a red herring.
And I can imagine BMW will support the product , even if it costs them a lot of money. Ultimately they will make it work and work well.

Haggleburyfinius

6,593 posts

185 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
I'm about to sign on the dotted line for an i8 to replace my X6.

My dealer seems desperate to shift these; they've offered me £3.5k down plus 1250pcm for 3 years. Which seems pretty good to me.

The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.

K2MDL

2,673 posts

218 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
It depends on what else you could have in your garage for £1250 a month but you are putting down a very low deposit. If you've had all the "usual" suspects then have a go - I love mine.

Haggleburyfinius

6,593 posts

185 months

Tuesday 2nd February 2016
quotequote all
K2MDL said:
It depends on what else you could have in your garage for £1250 a month but you are putting down a very low deposit. If you've had all the "usual" suspects then have a go - I love mine.
Nothing that really interests me to be honest.

I had a test drive back last year and fell in love.

The deposit is very very low, I agree. I was quite surprised when they sent me the offer.

K2MDL

2,673 posts

218 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
I've only had mine since beginning of December and bar a few warranty (simple) issues, the car has so far has been fantastic. Owned well over 100 vehicles and paid a lot more than the cost of an i8 for many, but this blows the overall ownership experience out of the window. It's so advanced that for the next 5 years plus, hybrid is the way to go.

You'll get the usual jibes about the Noddy 3-cylinder engine in the back and the Tesla guys laughing at the 14 mile range on battery power alone but you need to get the whole concept of the i8 before you can really comment. I do, and I wouldn't take any of may past vehicles back in exchange.

It's not the fastest, its not the most luxurious, best packaged, best range or best handling but for every day use as a comfortable sports car it's unbeatable. To be honest I can't understand how BMW make any money out of them. The investment to get right such a complicated system is quite remarkable. And of course you are sharing the same technology with the P1, 918 & La Ferrari, to name a few. All for £100k? You won't regret it. Wouldn't want to own one without a warranty though, that's for sure.

propaganda

407 posts

246 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
Haggleburyfinius said:
I'm about to sign on the dotted line for an i8 to replace my X6.

My dealer seems desperate to shift these; they've offered me £3.5k down plus 1250pcm for 3 years. Which seems pretty good to me.

The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.
That seems a good deal, is that with BMW finance? What is APR%

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
rb5er said:
I was merely suggesting that.......
To a casual observer of the thread, all you have "merely" done is make a flippant and irrelevant comment on the looks of a car and then spent every comment since trying to back that comment up with ill thought out, equally irrelevant arguments.

I think we can safely assume that BMW i8 prices are not affected by the aesthetic views of old Subaru drivers.


Back on topic, I started a similar thread to this a few months ago when someone of authority at my local BMW dealership said the very same thing and they expected prices to drop a whole lot more. BMW uk did also have a very defined marketing ideal which dealers were encouraged to follow and I understand this dealership in particular thought it the wrong tactic.

CRA1G

6,500 posts

194 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think we can safely assume that BMW i8 prices are not affected by the aesthetic views of old Subaru drivers.
hehe and no I'm not....! driving


daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
Sam All said:
modeller said:
To replace a complete pack on an i3 (22kwh) is $13K, so divide that by three for an i8.
That's to replace all the modules which would only ever occur if something catastrophic happened. In reality the battery gradually fades (like an IC engine) with some modules fading faster than others. It's these that you'd replace, so the cost get back upto 80+% would be much less.
Also an i8, even if it lost 50% would only lose 10m of range.
So for this car, the battery replacement cost is a red herring.
And I can imagine BMW will support the product , even if it costs them a lot of money. Ultimately they will make it work and work well.
+1

I dont think BMW have made the huge commitment to the 'i' range - both publicly and financially - to let the product flounder on the used market due to concerns about longevity of the batteries.

Its worth noting how many Prius are out there now and the pickup now by taxi drivers. We didnt see the value of those go in to freefall due to battery replacement costs.

I dont think describing the car as "ugly" and using battery costs are valid reasons why the car could suddenly fall in value.

As i've said it probably wouldnt personally be my first choice of car at that price, however i havent been through "the usual subjects" (yet - lottery win permitting) to be in the position to say well thats worth a try, as others on here have been.


daemon

35,724 posts

196 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
Haggleburyfinius said:
The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.
That probably suggests they're expecting a retail price of any cars handed back to be around £55-60K. Certainly well north of £50K anyway. Which is fairly typical of a £100K car id have thought and would suggest BMW isnt expecting them to drop off a cliff.

kryten22uk

2,344 posts

230 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
Haggleburyfinius said:
I'm about to sign on the dotted line for an i8 to replace my X6.

My dealer seems desperate to shift these; they've offered me £3.5k down plus 1250pcm for 3 years. Which seems pretty good to me.

The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.
That's an impossible deal surely? 36 * 1250 is 45000, then add on the 3500 deposit makes £48,500. Add that to the 46k residual you mentioned means that they're selling you a new car for £94,500 with 0%apr?!

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I was merely suggesting that.......
To a casual observer of the thread, all you have "merely" done is make a flippant and irrelevant comment on the looks of a car and then spent every comment since trying to back that comment up with ill thought out, equally irrelevant arguments.
And I did say that is was indeed subjective as to how cack it looks. I have not tried to back it up after at all but just raised a totally unrelated question about the cost of replacement battery packs that so far nobody seems to have any clue about including you it seems.

How are questions about running costs of a hybrid vehicle irrelevant in regards to the car. Did you manage to read the thread title as it seems most other posts are far more irrelevant in the context of this thread.

LaurasOtherHalf

21,429 posts

195 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
rb5er said:
And I did say that is was indeed subjective as to how cack it looks. I have not tried to back it up after at all but just raised a totally unrelated question about the cost of replacement battery packs that so far nobody seems to have any clue about including you it seems.

How are questions about running costs of a hybrid vehicle irrelevant in regards to the car. Did you manage to read the thread title as it seems most other posts are far more irrelevant in the context of this thread.
Why would any current owners care about the replacement costs of the battery packs on their brand new, fully warranted (& extendable warranties at that) vehicles? Do you honestly think every VW DSG owner looks at the cost of a replacement gearbox when signing on the dotted line?

Do Prius owners have old Subaru owners up in arms about how the 8th owners in 9 years time may expect to fund replacement battery packs? Do Honda Insight owners?

(Probably not in the case of the honda as after market batteries are available for circa £1800)

It's a none point. Why go on about it?

JonV8V

7,175 posts

123 months

Wednesday 3rd February 2016
quotequote all
kryten22uk said:
Haggleburyfinius said:
I'm about to sign on the dotted line for an i8 to replace my X6.

My dealer seems desperate to shift these; they've offered me £3.5k down plus 1250pcm for 3 years. Which seems pretty good to me.

The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.
That's an impossible deal surely? 36 * 1250 is 45000, then add on the 3500 deposit makes £48,500. Add that to the 46k residual you mentioned means that they're selling you a new car for £94,500 with 0%apr?!
I did that sum too. Just means there's 10k+ discount available on new.