I8 values in free fall....Why?
Discussion
kryten22uk said:
Haggleburyfinius said:
I'm about to sign on the dotted line for an i8 to replace my X6.
My dealer seems desperate to shift these; they've offered me £3.5k down plus 1250pcm for 3 years. Which seems pretty good to me.
The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.
That's an impossible deal surely? 36 * 1250 is 45000, then add on the 3500 deposit makes £48,500. Add that to the 46k residual you mentioned means that they're selling you a new car for £94,500 with 0%apr?!My dealer seems desperate to shift these; they've offered me £3.5k down plus 1250pcm for 3 years. Which seems pretty good to me.
The residual is set at 46k to give you some idea where they think they're gonna be in 3 years.
They're sourcing me a car as we speak at that price.
daemon said:
rb5er said:
Because they look cack and the technology will likely become very expensive to maintain. Also fule at £1 a litre anyone would surely rather a V8.
And we're to take opinion on looks from someone with a Subaru Impreza? rb5er said:
And I did say that is was indeed subjective as to how cack it looks. I have not tried to back it up after at all but just raised a totally unrelated question about the cost of replacement battery packs that so far nobody seems to have any clue about including you it seems.
How are questions about running costs of a hybrid vehicle irrelevant in regards to the car. Did you manage to read the thread title as it seems most other posts are far more irrelevant in the context of this thread.
With regard to the title - the general consensus is that I8 values are NOT in freefall, therefore to suggest they are because of looks and possibly prohibitive battery costs seems at odds with everyone else.How are questions about running costs of a hybrid vehicle irrelevant in regards to the car. Did you manage to read the thread title as it seems most other posts are far more irrelevant in the context of this thread.
Secondly as has been pointed out - there are a world of Prius, Insights, etc out there and at no point did the price go in to free fall because of the the relative costs of battery replace.
I have absolutely no doubt that by the time it becomes a possibility, BMW will have a reasonably cost effective solution in place to support their used cars on the open market. I have also no doubt that by the time it is a concern, battery prices will, relatively speaking, be through the floor.
It therefore seems that your own personal view that the car is ugly and battery packs a fortune to replace is one not shared by buyers as a concern, OR anyone else on here for that matter.
JonV8V said:
I did that sum too. Just means there's 10k+ discount available on new.
Plus 0%APR which is good for another 10k discount. Great offers at the moment then. 
I'm quite tempted. I had previously thought/said that I wouldnt touch a new car due to the rapid 1st year depreciation, but these new car deals start to sway back in new car favour.
daemon said:
With regard to the title - the general consensus is that I8 values are NOT in freefall, therefore to suggest they are because of looks and possibly prohibitive battery costs seems at odds with everyone else
Not at odds with everyone. I recall not so long ago there was a 9-12 month wait and speculators were selling 10-20k over list. We're now seeing new deals at 10-20k under list and lightly used cars 30k off their new price. There's no real definition of free fall and it's probably a bit strong here but the relative change in a year is fairly significant even if it's now closer to normal. I pity anyone that dropped 130k on one 12 months ago and some did especially with the concierge pack or whatever it was called that some dealers were insisting the cars had.daemon said:
Secondly as has been pointed out - there are a world of Prius, Insights, etc out there and at no point did the price go in to free fall because of the the relative costs of battery replace.
A very odd comparison to draw A £20k car that is indeed worth £4k now just like any other car. No problem there.
But a £100k car has far more to lose so time will tell if it holds money well like a £100k porsche with a nice internal combustion engine will or ends up depreciating a hell of a lot more or hey even bucks the trend and appreciates in the next 10 years.
You seem to think you have some kind of guided insight into future values without knowing any of the costs of aging components.
JonV8V said:
Not at odds with everyone. I recall not so long ago there was a 9-12 month wait and speculators were selling 10-20k over list. We're now seeing new deals at 10-20k under list and lightly used cars 30k off their new price. There's no real definition of free fall and it's probably a bit strong here but the relative change in a year is fairly significant even if it's now closer to normal. I pity anyone that dropped 130k on one 12 months ago and some did especially with the concierge pack or whatever it was called that some dealers were insisting the cars had.
Agreed.There were exceptions where people paid way over list to own one. However prices seem to be going to be roughly 50+% of list price at three years - based on current prices and residuals being set.
I'd say thats fairly typical of kit like this and certainly not indicative of freefall.
rb5er said:
A very odd comparison to draw
A £20k car that is indeed worth £4k now just like any other car. No problem there.
My point being, if pricess never went into freefall on those hybrid cars because of concerns over the cost of battery replacement, why would they on the i8?A £20k car that is indeed worth £4k now just like any other car. No problem there.
rb5er said:
But a £100k car has far more to lose so time will tell if it holds money well like a £100k porsche with a nice internal combustion engine will or ends up depreciating a hell of a lot more or hey even bucks the trend and appreciates in the next 10 years.
I dont think it necessarily will hold its money as well as an equivalent price. It "might" given there seems to be discounts on offer, 0% finance, etc, so you might pay less, and thus lose less.It doesnt mean it'll go in to freefall though.
rb5er said:
You seem to think you have some kind of guided insight into future values without knowing any of the costs of aging components.
Not at all. Though i am VERY confident that BMW wont let the car flounder on the used market because of unforseen battery costs. Common sense would tell you that. And thats even before we have the ongoing drop in battery prices factored in.
daemon said:
Not at all. Though i am VERY confident that BMW wont let the car flounder on the used market because of unforseen battery costs.
Common sense would tell you that. And thats even before we have the ongoing drop in battery prices factored in.
Why would BMW care about the car prices floundering on the used market? They certainly haven't with any of their previous models. Common sense would tell you that. And thats even before we have the ongoing drop in battery prices factored in.
They care about selling new cars and there will always be people lined up willing to take big hits in depreciation to own one (whether through cheap finance/lease deals or just having enough money not to worry about it)
R8Steve said:
daemon said:
Not at all. Though i am VERY confident that BMW wont let the car flounder on the used market because of unforseen battery costs.
Common sense would tell you that. And thats even before we have the ongoing drop in battery prices factored in.
Why would BMW care about the car prices floundering on the used market? They certainly haven't with any of their previous models. Common sense would tell you that. And thats even before we have the ongoing drop in battery prices factored in.
They care about selling new cars and there will always be people lined up willing to take big hits in depreciation to own one (whether through cheap finance/lease deals or just having enough money not to worry about it)
Dont forget, if used ones wont sell, then that will have an effect on the sales of new ones.
Renault & Nissan have battery schemes available. Cant see why, if it were a real issue, that BMW wouldnt do similar.
daemon said:
Floundering based on prohibitive battery prices - i would expect BMW to have some sort of battery replacement scheme IF that were effectively stopping their used cars selling.
Dont forget, if used ones wont sell, then that will have an effect on the sales of new ones.
Renault & Nissan have battery schemes available. Cant see why, if it were a real issue, that BMW wouldnt do similar.
Same reason they look after all those owners with the N54 engine having turbos fail etc..Dont forget, if used ones wont sell, then that will have an effect on the sales of new ones.
Renault & Nissan have battery schemes available. Cant see why, if it were a real issue, that BMW wouldnt do similar.
Oh, hold on a minute...
I think they'll support i8 and i3 owners a bit better but only for so long
JonV8V said:
Same reason they look after all those owners with the N54 engine having turbos fail etc..
Oh, hold on a minute...
I think they'll support i8 and i3 owners a bit better but only for so long
Back with the Nikasil problems they did a full recall.Oh, hold on a minute...
I think they'll support i8 and i3 owners a bit better but only for so long
With the 2.0d lump and timing chains snapping / tensioner failure, they're quietly pulling in all potentially affected cars and upgrading them.
Cars wit FBMWSH and a significant failure usually get significant financial assistance from BMW even when out of warranty.
And i'm not talking about failure here, i'm talking about IF battery replacement was prohibitively expensive to the point where it was stopping used car sales, and thus ultimately new car sales, i think BMW would have some sort of scheme in place to support the cars - like Renault and Nissan do.
Its a moot point anyway - battery prices have not caused values to drop off a cliff, and battery prices are dropping all the time.
The Nikasil issue was 20 years ago - the timing chain issue was build until 2009 and last I heard BMW still deny the issue but will review on case by case especially low mileage cars. I can imagine prevention may be done at times but when they failed to top my coolant up at a cost of 20p but would rather report it and expect me to book it in (I did it myself) they're not blessed with always being proactive.
The N54 which is still in production today (z4) has had a range of issues, some covered (hpfp) and some countries have had extended warranties but in both those cases only as a result of class action law.
I don't think anyone can say for sure what they would do today and it is not just battery, there's some complex stuff balancing power going on and regenerative braking plus more turbos on a small engine that's being pushed hard etc. I personally wouldn't sit there thinking any manufacturer was going to get overly charitable outside warranty.
BMW like most manufacturers has supporters who have had good experiences coupled with wanting to believe in the brand. Doesn't make it a universal rule, just opinion. You have yours, I have mine.
The N54 which is still in production today (z4) has had a range of issues, some covered (hpfp) and some countries have had extended warranties but in both those cases only as a result of class action law.
I don't think anyone can say for sure what they would do today and it is not just battery, there's some complex stuff balancing power going on and regenerative braking plus more turbos on a small engine that's being pushed hard etc. I personally wouldn't sit there thinking any manufacturer was going to get overly charitable outside warranty.
BMW like most manufacturers has supporters who have had good experiences coupled with wanting to believe in the brand. Doesn't make it a universal rule, just opinion. You have yours, I have mine.
JonV8V said:
The Nikasil issue was 20 years ago - the timing chain issue was build until 2009 and last I heard BMW still deny the issue but will review on case by case especially low mileage cars. I can imagine prevention may be done at times but when they failed to top my coolant up at a cost of 20p but would rather report it and expect me to book it in (I did it myself) they're not blessed with always being proactive.
The N54 which is still in production today (z4) has had a range of issues, some covered (hpfp) and some countries have had extended warranties but in both those cases only as a result of class action law.
I don't think anyone can say for sure what they would do today and it is not just battery, there's some complex stuff balancing power going on and regenerative braking plus more turbos on a small engine that's being pushed hard etc. I personally wouldn't sit there thinking any manufacturer was going to get overly charitable outside warranty.
BMW like most manufacturers has supporters who have had good experiences coupled with wanting to believe in the brand. Doesn't make it a universal rule, just opinion. You have yours, I have mine.
BMW have actively been upgrading cars that are brought into their dealers and may be affected by the timing chain problem.The N54 which is still in production today (z4) has had a range of issues, some covered (hpfp) and some countries have had extended warranties but in both those cases only as a result of class action law.
I don't think anyone can say for sure what they would do today and it is not just battery, there's some complex stuff balancing power going on and regenerative braking plus more turbos on a small engine that's being pushed hard etc. I personally wouldn't sit there thinking any manufacturer was going to get overly charitable outside warranty.
BMW like most manufacturers has supporters who have had good experiences coupled with wanting to believe in the brand. Doesn't make it a universal rule, just opinion. You have yours, I have mine.
This has been happening for over a year now.
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
My point still stands that BMW are not building a new "brand" with the i range to know that customers wont be able to cost effectively run their cars, to the point that values plummet.
I dont particularly have an affiliation with the BMW brand. However in terms of market dominance and as a business, i certainly respect what they do and how well they do it.
I'd be very surprised if it came out that i8s suddenly need a new battery pack @ 5 years old and they're £30K or something mental like that.
daemon said:
BMW have actively been upgrading cars that are brought into their dealers and may be affected by the timing chain problem.
This has been happening for over a year now.
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
My point still stands that BMW are not building a new "brand" with the i range to know that customers wont be able to cost effectively run their cars, to the point that values plummet.
I dont particularly have an affiliation with the BMW brand. However in terms of market dominance and as a business, i certainly respect what they do and how well they do it.
I'd be very surprised if it came out that i8s suddenly need a new battery pack @ 5 years old and they're £30K or something mental like that.
Why did you suggest in other posts to get a 330 not a 335 to avoid turbo issues if you're so confident in BMW looking after their customers?This has been happening for over a year now.
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
My point still stands that BMW are not building a new "brand" with the i range to know that customers wont be able to cost effectively run their cars, to the point that values plummet.
I dont particularly have an affiliation with the BMW brand. However in terms of market dominance and as a business, i certainly respect what they do and how well they do it.
I'd be very surprised if it came out that i8s suddenly need a new battery pack @ 5 years old and they're £30K or something mental like that.
The battery pack won't be 30k, but it doesn't need to be. Porsche 997.1s are known for engine issues (and some would say unfairly) costing 5-7k to put right and as a result are given a relatively wide birth by many.
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