So who is getting a Model 3?

Author
Discussion

ukshooter

501 posts

211 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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I have been running my Model S as my everyday car since January 2015. I am now approaching 32,000 trouble free miles with no servicing costs and I have used about £100 of my own electricity.

I drove it from Reading to Geneva and back for the motorshow last year and it took me 1.5 hours longer than the drive the previous year and most of that was down to a detour through Paris traffic which I didn't go near the year before. The supercharger network has grown a bit more in France so could avoid going near Paris now and that would put me back closer to the regular car journey time.

The secret is to always start relatively full, around 80% charge, either from charging overnight at home or at a charging station if there is one nearby (I am close to a couple). I have been close to running out twice, down to chargers in Basingstoke not working so having to get to Reading and up on the M4 services, 2 consecutive services with the units out of order.

The charging network does need to grow and become more reliable but it is no different to when cars first started, there wasn't a ready network of petrol stations waiting for cars to be invented. There are growing pains, Tesla took the bull by the horns and realised the need to have as much range as possible and also build a network of chargepoints.

Then you get idiots/vested interest/other manufacturers/dealers trying to prevent Tesla from expanding or selling cars in their particular area. You get the EU changing the charging plug from the original Type 2 to a different plug again (supported by manufacturers late to the game) so instead of a common plug across Europe, the charge points have to be installed now with several different types which reduces the number of actual charging points available.

However, this just plays into Tesla's hands with their own superfast charging network.

Anyway, back to the original question, I will be getting a 3. It will probably be here end 2017 early 2018 around the time I should change the S.

ukshooter

501 posts

211 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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JonV8V said:
Putting it another way, I describe it as a 40k car stuck to a 30k battery. If, and it's big if, one of the big boys took one of their cars and stuck the tesla drive train and battery on it they'd be laughing.
The Mercedes B class Electric car has the Tesla drive train and batteries. Stupidly, they figured the i3 was the boy to copy and so went with a smaller battery pack and thus a range of less than 100 miles.

AnotherClarkey

3,589 posts

188 months

Saturday 5th March 2016
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JonV8V said:
I don't want to knock them too much but once you place your order it can be a different experience - mainly due to growing pains rather than policy but there are design issues too

- unable to tell you what cables will arrive with the car. People have spent £170 on a cable only go be then to find the car came with it.
- delivery dates moving around
- the miscommunication on spec of the car and the obsession with 0-60 times the car can't do
- the airport parking that seems to change daily on what you can really have and at which airports
- telling you you can use back entrances at service stations to get across to super chargers but won't put it in writing
- body panel availability coupled with increasing numbers of accidents - cars on the road for months and some insurance premiums rocketing
- cars do break down, reliability is not brilliant (depends on your definition of reliability but frequent reboots of the software, and a dash that's full of creaks and leather wearing noticeably after 6k miles)
- depending where you live, very variable support
- software updates that have buggered up things like heating that was fine before
- sat Nav that has a sense of humour
- the interior finish is way down compared to 70k+ Audi, BMW, jag, merc etc.

They're very different in lots of ways compared to the mainstream, not all of them good, a lot of stuff is though, but I frequently get asked if I'm pleased with it or should they buy one and I can never give an easy answer.

Putting it another way, I describe it as a 40k car stuck to a 30k battery. If, and it's big if, one of the big boys took one of their cars and stuck the tesla drive train and battery on it they'd be laughing.
I can't disagree with any of those points but I am prepared to accept those types of issues to get something new and exciting rather than a product of the conventional car industry. Hopefully the Model 3 will be a bit more sorted with them having gained experience.

I was in a Tesla cab at Schipol the other day and the interior was lasting better than I might have imagined. It was also a far more pleasant experience in terms of ride comfort and noise than the E-class I got the other end.

Interestingly the ride of the basic steel-sprung taxi on moderate wheels seemed far better than the air-sprung P85D on the big rims I test drove a while ago. I do think that the real gems of the model S range are the base models.

98elise

26,377 posts

160 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
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p1stonhead said:
JD said:
p1stonhead said:
I get about 550 miles out of £45 of diesel at the moment.

To get the same from a tesla would be about £20ish in electricity I believe?

Without the insane speed appeal of a Model S, the £30 difference isnt enough for me to consider one I dont think.

Now if its nearly (or even say 5 seconds to 60) as fast as the Sodel S for that money, thats a different story.
Whatever difference between the petrol and diesel option of your current car obviously made you opt for diesel so why not another jump for electric?
For the little saving, it is still in the 'bit of a pain in the arse' phase in terms of charging vs filling up in my opinion if it was a 'normal' electric car.

I very nearly leased a Model S but went a different way in the end. Was a great thing to drive though and ridiculously fast. Lets see how the '3' comes out - you never know.
I never get the issue with charging being a pain. I get it if you don't have a drive, but I have to refuel my car 2 or 3 times a week. If I could do it on my drive overnight then I would.

Put it this way. If your next mobile phone could only be charged at special shops would you consider this a great new feature or would you wonder WTF they were thinking of?

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
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98elise said:
p1stonhead said:
JD said:
p1stonhead said:
I get about 550 miles out of £45 of diesel at the moment.

To get the same from a tesla would be about £20ish in electricity I believe?

Without the insane speed appeal of a Model S, the £30 difference isnt enough for me to consider one I dont think.

Now if its nearly (or even say 5 seconds to 60) as fast as the Sodel S for that money, thats a different story.
Whatever difference between the petrol and diesel option of your current car obviously made you opt for diesel so why not another jump for electric?
For the little saving, it is still in the 'bit of a pain in the arse' phase in terms of charging vs filling up in my opinion if it was a 'normal' electric car.

I very nearly leased a Model S but went a different way in the end. Was a great thing to drive though and ridiculously fast. Lets see how the '3' comes out - you never know.
I never get the issue with charging being a pain. I get it if you don't have a drive, but I have to refuel my car 2 or 3 times a week. If I could do it on my drive overnight then I would.

Put it this way. If your next mobile phone could only be charged at special shops would you consider this a great new feature or would you wonder WTF they were thinking of?
Your mobile running out of battery cant physically strand you hundreds of miles from home.

And if a new shop could charge my mobile in 1 minute like it takes to fill the car for the same cost as electricity at home, yes id probably use it!

Im not saying its a crap way to live, and certainly not saying I wont buy one, but the 'real life range' thread in this forum suggests a Model S does 180-200 miles before needing a long charge which takes a hell of a long time at home. And I dont live near any superchargers.

I have 3 cars so its not a huge issue if the electric one is out of juice, but I dont think I would have one as a sole car.


Mike_C

984 posts

221 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
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p1stonhead said:
Im not saying its a crap way to live, and certainly not saying I wont buy one, but the 'real life range' thread in this forum suggests a Model S does 180-200 miles before needing a long charge which takes a hell of a long time at home. And I dont live near any superchargers.
That's not true I'm afraid, if you have a 7kW charger installed (which if you buy a new Tesla, is subsidised to the tune of £550, which more than covers a typical 'blue commando' install, or you can opt to use the 75%/£700 Govt grant) then you get a charge rate of 20mph at home. So if you typically spend 10 hours at home every night (e.g. get home from work at 8pm and leave for work at 6am) then that gives you 200 miles of range overnight, most people probably spend closer to 11 hours at home in reality, so that's 220 miles.

Of course, charging off a 3-pin socket, which I do from time to time if staying away from home overnight, only yields around 6mph charge rate, but that's still enough for 60-80 miles in most situations, which has always been plenty for my needs when combined with quick Supercharger top-ups en route when stopping for lunch or whatever. And at a Supercharger you're charging at up to 350mph!

In a regular week I typically cover 300 miles and charge up twice at home and once at a Supercharger and that's it. Costs less than £10/week in electricity compared to £80-£90/week in fuel for my previous car.

p1stonhead

25,489 posts

166 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
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Mike_C said:
p1stonhead said:
Im not saying its a crap way to live, and certainly not saying I wont buy one, but the 'real life range' thread in this forum suggests a Model S does 180-200 miles before needing a long charge which takes a hell of a long time at home. And I dont live near any superchargers.
That's not true I'm afraid, if you have a 7kW charger installed (which if you buy a new Tesla, is subsidised to the tune of £550, which more than covers a typical 'blue commando' install, or you can opt to use the 75%/£700 Govt grant) then you get a charge rate of 20mph at home. So if you typically spend 10 hours at home every night (e.g. get home from work at 8pm and leave for work at 6am) then that gives you 200 miles of range overnight, most people probably spend closer to 11 hours at home in reality, so that's 220 miles.

Of course, charging off a 3-pin socket, which I do from time to time if staying away from home overnight, only yields around 6mph charge rate, but that's still enough for 60-80 miles in most situations, which has always been plenty for my needs when combined with quick Supercharger top-ups en route when stopping for lunch or whatever. And at a Supercharger you're charging at up to 350mph!

In a regular week I typically cover 300 miles and charge up twice at home and once at a Supercharger and that's it. Costs less than £10/week in electricity compared to £80-£90/week in fuel for my previous car.
Thats good to know! To be honest I hadnt done too much research into it. Makes the case for a Model 3 more appealing indeed. When do deposits open?

Mike_C

984 posts

221 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
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p1stonhead said:
Thats good to know! To be honest I hadnt done too much research into it. Makes the case for a Model 3 more appealing indeed. When do deposits open?
I was told March, but there's nothing on the website yet, and for all their positives, Tesla are usually late on most things they announce! smile I think they're flat out getting Model X production up to speed and the Gigafactory build underway, which itself is pivotal in Model 3 production.

JonV8V

7,177 posts

123 months

Tuesday 8th March 2016
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Mike_C said:
I was told March, but there's nothing on the website yet, and for all their positives, Tesla are usually late on most things they announce! smile I think they're flat out getting Model X production up to speed and the Gigafactory build underway, which itself is pivotal in Model 3 production.
The rumour mill suggests they're way behind on model X builds due to the doors or something and the gigs factory has been scaled back. I can't see the model 3 being with us for a good 2 years whenever it's announced - and in 2years the model s will be 5 years old and will have needed an update to squeeze in

Mike_C

984 posts

221 months

Wednesday 9th March 2016
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JonV8V said:
The rumour mill suggests they're way behind on model X builds due to the doors or something and the gigs factory has been scaled back. I can't see the model 3 being with us for a good 2 years whenever it's announced - and in 2years the model s will be 5 years old and will have needed an update to squeeze in
In recent firmware codes in the Model S there have been references to 'P100D' apparently, so I would imagine any 'facelift' of the vehicle will also come with some extended range options. I think the performance will stay where it is now, the next improvement in 0-60 times and the like will be when a revised Roadster comes along; they've got enough headlines and insane/ridiculous performance from the P85D and P90D to generate excitement, it's increased range that the consumers want now.

98elise

26,377 posts

160 months

Wednesday 9th March 2016
quotequote all
p1stonhead said:
98elise said:
p1stonhead said:
JD said:
p1stonhead said:
I get about 550 miles out of £45 of diesel at the moment.

To get the same from a tesla would be about £20ish in electricity I believe?

Without the insane speed appeal of a Model S, the £30 difference isnt enough for me to consider one I dont think.

Now if its nearly (or even say 5 seconds to 60) as fast as the Sodel S for that money, thats a different story.
Whatever difference between the petrol and diesel option of your current car obviously made you opt for diesel so why not another jump for electric?
For the little saving, it is still in the 'bit of a pain in the arse' phase in terms of charging vs filling up in my opinion if it was a 'normal' electric car.

I very nearly leased a Model S but went a different way in the end. Was a great thing to drive though and ridiculously fast. Lets see how the '3' comes out - you never know.
I never get the issue with charging being a pain. I get it if you don't have a drive, but I have to refuel my car 2 or 3 times a week. If I could do it on my drive overnight then I would.

Put it this way. If your next mobile phone could only be charged at special shops would you consider this a great new feature or would you wonder WTF they were thinking of?
Your mobile running out of battery cant physically strand you hundreds of miles from home.

And if a new shop could charge my mobile in 1 minute like it takes to fill the car for the same cost as electricity at home, yes id probably use it!

Im not saying its a crap way to live, and certainly not saying I wont buy one, but the 'real life range' thread in this forum suggests a Model S does 180-200 miles before needing a long charge which takes a hell of a long time at home. And I dont live near any superchargers.

I have 3 cars so its not a huge issue if the electric one is out of juice, but I dont think I would have one as a sole car.
My point was instead of, rather than as an option. Given the choice of only one I would choose home fueling (or charging) 99% of the time.

I do a lot of miles (130-140 per day) so I need have a full tank on Sunday night. That often a means a trip just to fill up. On a Wednesday morning I have to fill the tank again so I need to factor in a stop. That's normally a 10-15 minute stop because there are queues at the counter, but adds about 30 minutes to my journey (due to the delay getting on to the M25). I then need to do the same on Friday night on the way home

I'd rather get up in the morning to find that the car was full smile

gangzoom

6,254 posts

214 months

Wednesday 9th March 2016
quotequote all
Mike_C said:
In recent firmware codes in the Model S there have been references to 'P100D' apparently, so I would imagine any 'facelift' of the vehicle will also come with some extended range options. I think the performance will stay where it is now, the next improvement in 0-60 times and the like will be when a revised Roadster comes along; they've got enough headlines and insane/ridiculous performance from the P85D and P90D to generate excitement, it's increased range that the consumers want now.
Totally agree about performance, even the base spec Model S is 335i quick.

I have to say if Tesla do announce the 100D + face lift this year I'll be sorely tempted to order a new one rather than buying used. 100kWh is ALOT of battery capacity, that's more than THREE times more than what Nissan can fit in the 30kWh Leaf, and that thing has only just gone on sale. Yes it'll be horrifically expensive (for me), but I cannot see anyone else coming out with a 100kWh EV till 2020+. Even than it'll be limited to 'premium' brands like Porsche etc.

Infact assuming a 100kWh pack has 85kWh of usable charge, my 24kWh Leaf when at 100% charge (20kWh) will be the equivalent of a 100kWh Model S at 25% charge....Forget 0-60 times kind of battery capacity is quite insane in it-self.

Edited by gangzoom on Wednesday 9th March 18:44

Mike_C

984 posts

221 months

Tuesday 15th March 2016
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gangzoom said:
I have to say if Tesla do announce the 100D + face lift this year I'll be sorely tempted to order a new one rather than buying used. 100kWh is ALOT of battery capacity,
Yeah, I'm undecided to be honest. I've always been tempted by a P90D with Ludicrous mode, but the cost to change up from my P85+ (which was top of the pile at one point, of course!) is just not worth it. At the moment I don't need the additional range on a regular basis, so why bother.

But, if a P100D with significantly more range AND ludicrous performance AND some new gadgets came along, it could be worth it...but would still cost me the best part of £40k I imagine to upgrade to a car of similar spec to mine. So for now, I think I'll stick with what I've got and add a top-range Model 3 instead, for the missus.

Beati Dogu

8,862 posts

138 months

Wednesday 16th March 2016
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The Model 3 is being unveiled on the 31st of March according to Tesla on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/TeslaMotors

I hope it doesn't have the Model X's fugly front end.

sider

2,059 posts

220 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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Just had a call from my dealer.

UK deposit for the Model 3 is £1k.

Seems a lot when compared to the £700 initially thought.

I'm not sure what to do. I cant help but feel this £25k car I feel I'm being pulled towards is going to be more like £35k when it's ready and that I'll just end up asking for my ££ back.

Also - not bought a new car for a while. Why start again now? Surely there will be ex-demos flying about 6 months after launch for a few £k less?

Think I feel at the moment that I need BMW to do a 5-seater i3 instead, or perhaps see what the next-gen Leaf looks like.

gangzoom

6,254 posts

214 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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^^ Tesla don't follow the normal car sales trends. If you think a deposit price increase of £700 to £1k is a lot, stay away from the Modlel S configrator. The Model S price has actually gone UP about £5k in the last 6 month. End of last year you could get a base spec car for under £50k now it's £55k. There are rumours prices will be upped again soon. The X still has no UK price but unlikely to start at much blow £65K. Leaf/Zoe cheap the 3 will not be.

The 3 woudlnt hit U.K shores till 2018/19, and there will be stupid number of pre-orders. Think Apple iPhone but for cars. I cannot see a half decent specced car coming in at under £35k. You can buy used/ex demo car, currently the Model S is deprecating at roughly 50% at 3 years.

Mike_C

984 posts

221 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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As with Model S, you will find lots of pre-ordered cars available a few months after launch, but they won't be discounted; the price will be the same as if you had ordered a custom vehicle, just without the wait.

You will be waiting 12 months for a used/ex-demo Model 3, maybe even longer; if orders really take off, they won't replace their demo vehicles until they are at least 18 months old, because they will be busy fulfilling customer orders.

So if you want one, you'll have to stump up the deposit (and really, what is £300? If that worries you, I don't think a Tesla is for you!!) and wait to see what it comes out at. I'm banking on it being around £45-£50k with dual motors and all the toys...

EddieSteadyGo

11,726 posts

202 months

Tuesday 22nd March 2016
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Mike_C said:
As with Model S, you will find lots of pre-ordered cars available a few months after launch, but they won't be discounted; the price will be the same as if you had ordered a custom vehicle, just without the wait.

You will be waiting 12 months for a used/ex-demo Model 3, maybe even longer; if orders really take off, they won't replace their demo vehicles until they are at least 18 months old, because they will be busy fulfilling customer orders.

So if you want one, you'll have to stump up the deposit (and really, what is £300? If that worries you, I don't think a Tesla is for you!!) and wait to see what it comes out at. I'm banking on it being around £45-£50k with dual motors and all the toys...
I think you are probably right with this prediction.

Certainly getting dual motor performance at a price point of circa £45- £50k, whilst still a lot of money, would be excellent value for money when you compare it to conventionally powered cars with similar performance.

JonV8V

7,177 posts

123 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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EddieSteadyGo said:
I think you are probably right with this prediction.

Certainly getting dual motor performance at a price point of circa £45- £50k, whilst still a lot of money, would be excellent value for money when you compare it to conventionally powered cars with similar performance.
After a bit of discount, 35k gets you a 335d xdrive which can hit 60 in under 5 seconds, has 4 wheel drive and deliver 50 mpg. I doubt the model 3 will be any quicker. The 10k you save on purchase price buys a lot of diesel. The argument to me isn't about performance really on the model 3, it's more about being an ev with range.



gangzoom

6,254 posts

214 months

Wednesday 23rd March 2016
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Mike_C said:
So if you want one, you'll have to stump up the deposit (and really, what is £300? If that worries you, I don't think a Tesla is for you!!) and wait to see what it comes out at. I'm banking on it being around £45-£50k with dual motors and all the toys...
One thing is for sure the Model 3 certainly wouldn't be priced as a 'people's' car, despite what ever Musk will say. The top spec 'P' version will easily be over £60K, but it should also be significant quicker than a M3 (in a drag race). I'm sure the 3 will be a good car, the price isn't an issue, but waiting 2-3 years for delivery will be agony. The Model S is available right now, which is why I cannot wait to swap my Leaf for one smile.