Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
Blaster72 said:
Supercharging will not be free for Model 3 owners
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/01/supercharging-n...
Some other interesting snippets in that article too.
So it's an optional extra? Like cruise control on a VW?http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/01/supercharging-n...
Some other interesting snippets in that article too.
otolith said:
No such thing as a free lunch. It isn't free now, it's bundled with the price of a Model S or Model X. They're proposing offering it as a separate option.
Ta, I thought you were trying to say something else. All a bit cryptic for me 
How long do Model S or X owners get it bundled for?
For the life of the vehicle! I wonder how much of the sales price is to cover this "free" charging in that case.
I guess if you don't live anywhere near a supercharger and have access to a charger at home (ie own driveway or garage) then it wouldn't matter anyway. Could be a good move by Tesla, avoids have all those low class Model 3's clogging up the supercharger stations that the rich folk want to use
I guess if you don't live anywhere near a supercharger and have access to a charger at home (ie own driveway or garage) then it wouldn't matter anyway. Could be a good move by Tesla, avoids have all those low class Model 3's clogging up the supercharger stations that the rich folk want to use
I wonder how many of the supercharger stations will end up being paid for by the owner of the land they are on as a 'marketing' tool to get folk to stop there?
That might well mean that the superchargers are free at point of use, and end up costing Tesla next to nothing
I'm surprised they aren't looking at putting superchargers on the ferries or Eurotunnel. A charge up while you're navigating the channel would be an ideal solution
That might well mean that the superchargers are free at point of use, and end up costing Tesla next to nothing
I'm surprised they aren't looking at putting superchargers on the ferries or Eurotunnel. A charge up while you're navigating the channel would be an ideal solution
feef said:
I wonder how many of the supercharger stations will end up being paid for by the owner of the land they are on as a 'marketing' tool to get folk to stop there?
That might well mean that the superchargers are free at point of use, and end up costing Tesla next to nothing
I'm surprised they aren't looking at putting superchargers on the ferries or Eurotunnel. A charge up while you're navigating the channel would be an ideal solution
Like anything else, once the demand outstrips supply the cost will go up "to balance demand" . . . . the usual nonsense so Tesla will make money from the land owner who will then take a cut from the cost of charging and Mr and Mrs EV owner, once smug as charging was free, finds that they need to pay 2x, 3x or more the cost of the electricity !That might well mean that the superchargers are free at point of use, and end up costing Tesla next to nothing
I'm surprised they aren't looking at putting superchargers on the ferries or Eurotunnel. A charge up while you're navigating the channel would be an ideal solution
The Government will also want to ensure their tax take stays high so they will start to tax electricity - adding a car tax to it.
Everything will move round the circle so an EV owner will find their fuel is only marginally less than petrol or diesel or even the same/worse if you factor in the additional waiting time for a charging spot.
By then petrol cars will be giving 50mpg and have a range of 600 miles which will act as a governor on the speed of adoption of EVs slowing it down and giving us two fuel forms to choose from, with probably, broadly similar costs.
I agree that the Government tax take will be a concern.
However, EV charging will mostly be at home (supercharging is really a non-issue for 99% of journeys).
So the question is whether your home electricity price/kWh will rise materially over the next decade or so.
And that is more to do with EDF pulling their finger out than EV adoption, it seems to me!
However, EV charging will mostly be at home (supercharging is really a non-issue for 99% of journeys).
So the question is whether your home electricity price/kWh will rise materially over the next decade or so.
And that is more to do with EDF pulling their finger out than EV adoption, it seems to me!
It will make for some interesting choices when the Model 3 finally arrives - Model 3 or used Model S with free supercharging? I think I would still go for the Model 3 and pay a supplement for lifetime supercharger access though (if available), the S is too big for my needs but others may differ.
feef said:
I wonder how many of the supercharger stations will end up being paid for by the owner of the land they are on as a 'marketing' tool to get folk to stop there?
That might well mean that the superchargers are free at point of use, and end up costing Tesla next to nothing
I'm surprised they aren't looking at putting superchargers on the ferries or Eurotunnel. A charge up while you're navigating the channel would be an ideal solution
There are Tesla super chargers at the terminals for Eurotunnel, as that is where people will spend money rather than on the train where there is nothing to buy.That might well mean that the superchargers are free at point of use, and end up costing Tesla next to nothing
I'm surprised they aren't looking at putting superchargers on the ferries or Eurotunnel. A charge up while you're navigating the channel would be an ideal solution
This green carp really is a total cash black hole, and innocent people are paying for it.
Last year the LA Times reported that Musk’s companies — Tesla Motors, Solar City, and Space Exploration Technologies — have collected subsidies worth $4.9 billion.
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
"Here’s Why Tesla Is A Giant Ponzi Scheme"
There's a few delusional comments at the end of this article, like some of the posters on here, but ultimately, most people get where TESLA is going.
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tes...
Last year the LA Times reported that Musk’s companies — Tesla Motors, Solar City, and Space Exploration Technologies — have collected subsidies worth $4.9 billion.
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
"Here’s Why Tesla Is A Giant Ponzi Scheme"
There's a few delusional comments at the end of this article, like some of the posters on here, but ultimately, most people get where TESLA is going.
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tes...
Mr GrimNasty said:
This green carp really is a total cash black hole, and innocent people are paying for it.
Last year the LA Times reported that Musk’s companies — Tesla Motors, Solar City, and Space Exploration Technologies — have collected subsidies worth $4.9 billion.
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
"Here’s Why Tesla Is A Giant Ponzi Scheme"
There's a few delusional comments at the end of this article, like some of the posters on here, but ultimately, most people get where TESLA is going.
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tes...
Because "Sure Money investor" is a gold plated reference journal............ Last year the LA Times reported that Musk’s companies — Tesla Motors, Solar City, and Space Exploration Technologies — have collected subsidies worth $4.9 billion.
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
"Here’s Why Tesla Is A Giant Ponzi Scheme"
There's a few delusional comments at the end of this article, like some of the posters on here, but ultimately, most people get where TESLA is going.
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tes...
Anyway leave Space X out of this, they land rocket ships, let me repeat that THEY LAND ROCKETS, that's got to be worth $4.9 billion of anyone's money.
I guess going to the stars isn't part of your dreams, however some of us grow up watching Thunderbirds and reading SciFi, space ships makes us feel that the human race isn't all bad and we have a future out there in the greater cosmos, did I mention SpaceX land spaceships here on earth, forgetting all the money that will potentially save, sit back and dream a little it isn't all about money.
By the way that's a crap article from a crackpot advisor, who believes we should sell all equities and keep gold under our beds there is a "$200 trillion Super Crash" coming!!!!!!"
Mr GrimNasty said:
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
Spacex - reusable rockets and already the cheapest launch system, so cheap ULA just gave up trying even with an $800 million launch subsidy. Plus an order book 3+ years out full already.Tesla, billions of dollars of orders for the new vehicle.
Yeah that must all look really bad for investors.
This is an interesting review of the Chevy Volt - https://youtu.be/SD-RIcpO8Do. The discussion on here got me thinking about charging nightly instead of refuelling every couple of weeks and in that context the Chevy ticks a lot of boxes - no long range anxiety, but it'll still get you to work on all-electric.
They need to sort out their naming though - Volt and Bolt? Which one is which?
Tesla is undoubtedly an expert at getting government breaks - every one of his businesses has negotiated hard and got public funding for just about everything they do. Does that make it a ponzi scheme? No. Every business at that scale does everything it can to reduce costs - from tax incentives to subsidies from states that want factories built locally. Musk is better at it than many, but he's building up big businesses and delivering products. I'd be surprised if every one of his schemes paid off (the success rate in raw tech companies is something like one in twenty), but it's not for lack of trying.
That said, Tesla is not cast iron yet, as has been pointed out before. Deposits are not purchases, and with things like the Volt around, you have to wonder what special sauce Tesla will have to deliver to keep those down payments.
They need to sort out their naming though - Volt and Bolt? Which one is which?
Mr GrimNasty said:
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
I'm as cynical as the next guy, but both solar and battery tech have shown huge price drops due to the massive levels of investment in the last few years. Solar is rising because there were a bunch of companies set up to 'harvest the subsidy' and unsurprisingly they're hurting now the subsidies are being withdrawn. However, the underlying technology has halved in price over the last few years (and batteries are doing the same). Though I strongly disagree with subsidies (they distort markets and end users often only see a fraction of the benefit), they do appear to have had a major impact on the cost of solar. (see XKCD cartoon on correlation and causation, but still).Tesla is undoubtedly an expert at getting government breaks - every one of his businesses has negotiated hard and got public funding for just about everything they do. Does that make it a ponzi scheme? No. Every business at that scale does everything it can to reduce costs - from tax incentives to subsidies from states that want factories built locally. Musk is better at it than many, but he's building up big businesses and delivering products. I'd be surprised if every one of his schemes paid off (the success rate in raw tech companies is something like one in twenty), but it's not for lack of trying.
That said, Tesla is not cast iron yet, as has been pointed out before. Deposits are not purchases, and with things like the Volt around, you have to wonder what special sauce Tesla will have to deliver to keep those down payments.
I read a few interesting things during the week
1) the NHTSA are investigating Model S suspension failures AND have warned them about repairing them FOC out of warranty and getting customers to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
2) the UAW are "reaching out" to Tesla assembly workers.
I suspect the reality of car manufacture in the US may be about to hit home
1) the NHTSA are investigating Model S suspension failures AND have warned them about repairing them FOC out of warranty and getting customers to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
2) the UAW are "reaching out" to Tesla assembly workers.
I suspect the reality of car manufacture in the US may be about to hit home
Edited by Jader1973 on Friday 10th June 03:28
The longterm reliability of these cars are proving to be Tesla's main issue. As much as I love their cads reliability is top of my shopping list. Glad im not in the M3 que.
Am now looking for non Tesla EV alternatives to replace my Leaf.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/9/11880450/tesla-doomed
Am now looking for non Tesla EV alternatives to replace my Leaf.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/9/11880450/tesla-doomed
Jader1973 said:
I read a few interesting things during the week
1) the NHTSA are investigating Model S suspension failures AND have warned them about repairing them FOC out of warranty and getting customers to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
Comprehensively rebutted by Tesla.1) the NHTSA are investigating Model S suspension failures AND have warned them about repairing them FOC out of warranty and getting customers to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
You do have to wonder what has produced this sudden wave of negative Tesla press.
Mr GrimNasty said:
This green carp really is a total cash black hole, and innocent people are paying for it.
Last year the LA Times reported that Musk’s companies — Tesla Motors, Solar City, and Space Exploration Technologies — have collected subsidies worth $4.9 billion.
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
"Here’s Why Tesla Is A Giant Ponzi Scheme"
There's a few delusional comments at the end of this article, like some of the posters on here, but ultimately, most people get where TESLA is going.
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tes...
UR Edward Niedermayer AICM $5. Last year the LA Times reported that Musk’s companies — Tesla Motors, Solar City, and Space Exploration Technologies — have collected subsidies worth $4.9 billion.
What part of not commercially viable do people not understand?
You have to get past the nonsense people spout, that the green tech requires support, then costs will fall - they don't. The tech. is intrinsically a poor engineering solution and bad value for money. Look at the UK, Solar PV install costs are rising again.
"Here’s Why Tesla Is A Giant Ponzi Scheme"
There's a few delusional comments at the end of this article, like some of the posters on here, but ultimately, most people get where TESLA is going.
http://suremoneyinvestor.com/2016/06/heres-why-tes...
Leithen said:
Jader1973 said:
I read a few interesting things during the week
1) the NHTSA are investigating Model S suspension failures AND have warned them about repairing them FOC out of warranty and getting customers to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
Comprehensively rebutted by Tesla.1) the NHTSA are investigating Model S suspension failures AND have warned them about repairing them FOC out of warranty and getting customers to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
You do have to wonder what has produced this sudden wave of negative Tesla press.
To be fair, as the number of Tesla vehicles on the road grows and the cars start doing higher and higher mileage its inevitable that more and more of the needy type of customers will crawl out of the woodwork and start bleating about every little defect.
As long as they keep on top of the warranty issues and jump on any safety issues with recalls and the like they won't have any problems. If they are genuinely trying to hide issues then this could become a problem for the company image.
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