Tesla Model 3 revealed

[FurtiveFreddy]

Many people, including some who post here, obviously hate what Musk & Tesla are doing.

There will be plenty of muck spread about the more successful they become.

Just read both accounts and judge for yourself. In this case, it seems Edward Niedermayer is muck-spreading and that's about all there is to it.

[Blaster72]

The link I saw in Autoblog - apologies if it's already been posted.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/09/model-s-owner-c...

[London424]

Interesting article about them and how they are able to price and spec cars.

https://www.wired.com/2016/06/teslas-plan-rule-aut...

[London424]

Another article about autonomous cars in the US.

https://theringer.com/driverless-cars-google-state...

[manracer]

I'm looking forward to my model 3 arriving, super chargers down the road, solar panels on my roof, will get the Tesla batteries in the loft, winner.

And when it arrives I will also get myself a weekend toy with the fuel savings.

I am very much looking forward to talking delivery of my model 3, I'm also not fussed in the slightest if it takes 3 years to arrive.

[RobDickinson]

Blaster72 said:

The link I saw in Autoblog - apologies if it's already been posted.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/09/model-s-owner-c...

Its all bullst sorry.

The bloke has been anti tesla for 8 years, (why buy a tesla???) drives it offroad hard for 70,000 miles , 20,000 more than the warranty, breaks the suspension, tesla pay half the repair cost yet he blogs about it?

"NHTSA confirmed today that they found no safety concern with the Model S suspension and have no further need for data from us on this matter"

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/74141042578740...

Then we find 37 of the 40 complains on suspension are fraudulent.

"Of greater concern: 37 of 40 suspension complaints to NHTSA were fraudulent, i.e. false location or vehicle identification numbers were used"
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/74141153158211...

blogger hatchet job..

[Blaster72]

It's not entirely all bullst, the non disclosure agreement was actually sent by Tesla to a customer as a condition of their repair being carried out. That is pretty strange kind of customer service, although they are now saying it was misinterpreted.

The other weird thing was Musk commenting that the car in question had 70,000 miles on it. What does that have to do with anything? Also commenting on the length of the guys dirt driveway - strange. Better to just say the car was recovered, repaired and the failed components under investigation than to go on about the customer in a negative way.

The rest all seems just a little bit weird, let's see if Tesla go after the guy with legal action as US companies like to do when they are attacked like this.

http://techcrunch.com/2016/06/10/teslas-weird-week...

Edited by Blaster72 on Saturday 11th June 11:26

[FurtiveFreddy]

Blaster72 said:

It's not entirely all bullst, the non disclosure agreement was actually sent by Tesla to a customer as a condition of their repair being carried out. That is pretty strange kind of customer service, although they are now saying it was misinterpreted.

The other weird thing was Musk commenting that the car in question had 70,000 miles on it. What does that have to do with anything? Also commenting on the length of the guys dirt driveway - strange. Better to just say the car was recovered, repaired and the failed components under investigation than to go on about the customer in a negative way.

The rest all seems just a little bit weird, let's see if Tesla go after the guy with legal action as US companies like to do when they are attacked like this.

http://techcrunch.com/2016/06/10/teslas-weird-week...

Have a read of this thread on the TMC forum and tell us what you think of the actions of Keef Wivaneff.

He has been posting under the usernames Lucile, Loose Wheels, Ralph Vader and possibly others...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/suspension...

A key point in all of this is that as the car had 70k miles on it, it was OUT OF WARRANTY. Hence, he WAS NOT FORCED to sign the goodwill agreement, he could have just paid for the repair and then sued Tesla for the cost if he thought he was in such a strong position.

Exactly the same thing happened to me with a car I owned which experienced an out of warranty engine failure. I could have accepted the dealer's 'goodwill gesture' of a contribution towards the cost of a new engine, but I knew the failure was due to their incompetence so I took them to court and won.

If there are so many disgruntled Tesla owners in the U.S. complaining about premature failures, it's relatively straightforward for them to start a class action law suit over there but AFAIK none have been started.

In the same way that every time a Tesla crashes into something, the initial report blames the onboard computer (usually until the facts emerge), we are seeing a small group of Tesla Trolls trying to generate some negative publicity for their own misguided reasons. Whether that's because they're trying to short stock or are one cell short of a battery pack, we don't yet know.

Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Saturday 11th June 11:58

[98elise]

Blaster72 said:

It's not entirely all bullst, the non disclosure agreement was actually sent by Tesla to a customer as a condition of their repair being carried out. That is pretty strange kind of customer service, although they are now saying it was misinterpreted.

The other weird thing was Musk commenting that the car in question had 70,000 miles on it. What does that have to do with anything? Also commenting on the length of the guys dirt driveway - strange. Better to just say the car was recovered, repaired and the failed components under investigation than to go on about the customer in a negative way.

The rest all seems just a little bit weird, let's see if Tesla go after the guy with legal action as US companies like to do when they are attacked like this.

http://techcrunch.com/2016/06/10/teslas-weird-week...

Edited by Blaster72 on Saturday 11th June 11:26

70000 miles is outside of warranty. I have an 8 year old fiesta that had needed wheel bearings, and a gearbox cable recently. Do you think ford will pay for them?

They fixed it and got the bloke to sign a goodwill agreement basically saying we will fix it for free, but in exchange you give up the right to bh about it or make anything bigger of it.

That sound reasonable, and is relatively standard IIRC. It would be good to hear from one of the PH lawyers on the agreement.

[Blaster72]

98elise said:

70000 miles is outside of warranty. I have an 8 year old fiesta that had needed wheel bearings, and a gearbox cable recently. Do you think ford will pay for them?

They fixed it and got the bloke to sign a goodwill agreement basically saying we will fix it for free, but in exchange you give up the right to bh about it or make anything bigger of it.

That sound reasonable, and is relatively standard IIRC. It would be good to hear from one of the PH lawyers on the agreement.

Clearly your Fiesta being 8 years old is totally irrelevant in this case, not sure why it was mentioned at all really? If he was trying to make a point that it was out of warranty then why not just say "it's out of the warranty period" rather than tweet about the cars mileage and the unpaved road the customer lives on.

We clearly have a difference of opinion, I think Musk should leave the PR to his PR team and that going on the offensive against your customers is never a good idea no matter how bat st crazy they are. Others seems to think this is fine.

"They fixed it and got the bloke to sign a goodwill agreement basically saying we will fix it for free, but in exchange you give up the right to bh about it or make anything bigger of it."

If you read what they actually sent him - that is not what it says.

I don't have a beef with Tesla, I just see a young company gone large quick that is really struggling handling any kind of negative PR.

Edited by Blaster72 on Saturday 11th June 12:25

[Blaster72]

FurtiveFreddy said:

Have a read of this thread on the TMC forum and tell us what you think of the actions of Keef Wivaneff.

He has been posting under the usernames Lucile, Loose Wheels, Ralph Vader and possibly others...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/suspension...

A key point in all of this is that as the car had 70k miles on it, it was OUT OF WARRANTY. Hence, he WAS NOT FORCED to sign the goodwill agreement, he could have just paid for the repair and then sued Tesla for the cost if he thought he was in such a strong position.

Exactly the same thing happened to me with a car I owned which experienced an out of warranty engine failure. I could have accepted the dealer's 'goodwill gesture' of a contribution towards the cost of a new engine, but I knew the failure was due to their incompetence so I took them to court and won.

If there are so many disgruntled Tesla owners in the U.S. complaining about premature failures, it's relatively straightforward for them to start a class action law suit over there but AFAIK none have been started.

In the same way that every time a Tesla crashes into something, the initial report blames the onboard computer (usually until the facts emerge), we are seeing a small group of Tesla Trolls trying to generate some negative publicity for their own misguided reasons. Whether that's because they're trying to short stock or are one cell short of a battery pack, we don't yet know.

Edited by FurtiveFreddy on Saturday 11th June 11:58

Thanks for the link, it still seems to me that Tesla/Musk are over reacting to a very small handful of difficult customers. Your group of "Tesla Trolls" as you call them seem to be able to make a lot of noise in public where other companies would use their PR machines to carefully reduce that noise to a minimum.

Musk himself does seem to take everything very personally and isn't very adept at handling difficult customers, In my opinion the public tit for tat with idiotic customers is something he should be trying very hard to stay out of.

As for the non disclosure - why have the wording like it was? I can't see why Tesla would want to hide the fact they repaired a customers car free of charge out of warranty - especially as they consider it unusual damage and not a widespread problem. Badly thought out and poorly defended when it came to light.

[Blaster72]

Yep, new Model S at a cheaper price, that price is after the government grant of £4.5k is applied.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/model-s/94336/u...

[FurtiveFreddy]

Blaster72 said:

Thanks for the link, it still seems to me that Tesla/Musk are over reacting to a very small handful of difficult customers. Your group of "Tesla Trolls" as you call them seem to be able to make a lot of noise in public where other companies would use their PR machines to carefully reduce that noise to a minimum.

Musk himself does seem to take everything very personally and isn't very adept at handling difficult customers, In my opinion the public tit for tat with idiotic customers is something he should be trying very hard to stay out of.

As for the non disclosure - why have the wording like it was? I can't see why Tesla would want to hide the fact they repaired a customers car free of charge out of warranty - especially as they consider it unusual damage and not a widespread problem. Badly thought out and poorly defended when it came to light.

Musk doesn't do traditional PR. Whether his way is right or wrong, time will tell.

I don't agree with everything he says and does but I don't think this has been handled badly.

[Blaster72]

Well, the story rumbles on

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/10/tesla-mistakenl...

I never knew Tesla had sued Top Gear though!

[98elise]

Blaster72 said:

Well, the story rumbles on

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/10/tesla-mistakenl...

I never knew Tesla had sued Top Gear though!

It was over their original piece on the Tesla. They said that the range was only 55 miles, and that the brakes were broken. They showed it being pushed back into the garage. Thay admitted that it wasn't actually out of charge so didn't need to be pushed anywhere. The brakes issue issue was regen so you had to use the actual brakes (ie push a bit harder). Their defence was its an entertainment show.

5th Gear did a piece on the same car and drove around 210miles (including a blast around a track) with rage to spare for rated range of 250miles. That was with Tiff driving and the range meter taped over.

Another journalist also tried to slate the range by driving around in circles at a car park before going to his destination. Tesla had learnt by now and had a tracker in the car to montior what was going on!

I think its a bit of both. Some journalists will want the car to fail so will give it an unfair review, some will love the new tech so will probably over look flaws. At the same time Tesla can be very agressive when they think somone is lying.

For me it was quite disapointing that the BBC would air a piece like that when a company is in its infancy. Top Gears reach is huge, and its using taxpayers money to damage a manufacturers business is wrong.

[Jader1973]

I think what winds people up about Tesla is that they are a tech company trying to make cars and they break all the conventional rules etc.

What they don't seem to realise is that the rules are there for a reason: if things go wrong with a car people can die. It is not a mobile phone.

That is why NDAs are a no no; that is why simply releasing a beta software update that enables new features over the ether and loading it on existing cars is a no no.

As the realities of being a car maker set in and they have to start following the rules, and the established manufacturers start to offer similar products, then they'll either go bankrupt or Musk will get fed up and sell up.

Either way, they'll be a very different company in a few years.

[RobDickinson]

Jader1973 said:

Either way, they'll be a very different company in a few years.

I'm sure they will be but for entirely different reasons.

As for this,they already have experienced car people(Franz von Holzhausen heading it all up), and the NHTSA are fine with whats happening.

Its a non story.

[The Vambo]

Jader1973 said:

What they don't seem to realise is that the rules are there for a reason: if things go wrong with a car people can die. It is not a mobile phone.

You honestly think that nobody at Tesla realises that a member of the public dying in their car due to a fault is a bad thing? And not a "damn sales are down" sort of bad thing.

People seem to have this strange idea that Tesla is entirely staffed by hoody and flip-flop wearing coder brainiacs who are suddenly building mechanical safety systems and fatigue testing parts for the first time.

The actual design and production engineering teams, just like pretty much every other car manufacturer, are headhunted as they have experience designing and building cars for the biggest companies in the industry.

[Blaster72]

98elise said:

It was over their original piece on the Tesla. They said that the range was only 55 miles, and that the brakes were broken. They showed it being pushed back into the garage. Thay admitted that it wasn't actually out of charge so didn't need to be pushed anywhere. The brakes issue issue was regen so you had to use the actual brakes (ie push a bit harder). Their defence was its an entertainment show.

5th Gear did a piece on the same car and drove around 210miles (including a blast around a track) with rage to spare for rated range of 250miles. That was with Tiff driving and the range meter taped over.

Another journalist also tried to slate the range by driving around in circles at a car park before going to his destination. Tesla had learnt by now and had a tracker in the car to montior what was going on!

I think its a bit of both. Some journalists will want the car to fail so will give it an unfair review, some will love the new tech so will probably over look flaws. At the same time Tesla can be very agressive when they think somone is lying.

For me it was quite disapointing that the BBC would air a piece like that when a company is in its infancy. Top Gears reach is huge, and its using taxpayers money to damage a manufacturers business is wrong.

Can you remember how long ago that was, I can remember seeing that Top Gear and I've watched pretty much all of them. I wouldn't mind digging it out for a viewing. Ta.

[V8LM]

https://www.teslamotors.com/en_GB/blog/tesla-vs-to...


2008 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_(series_1...

Edited by V8LM on Sunday 12th June 11:06