Tesla Model 3 revealed

[Artey]

98elise said:

walm said:

Artey said:

Cashflow isn't important you say...

No.
He didn't say that.

He said the cashflows for a publicly-listed multi-billion dollar business are different to those of a corner shop.

Exactly. Lean Manufacturing (or JIT) with 60-90 day terms mean you're building cars without having to pay for the parts until way after the car is built.

Corner shops generally have to pay for goods up front at the wholesaler

Even your local garage will get parts on account, and will have sold them to you before they have to pay for them.

Since you consider yourself to be a financial expert in all things accounting I'd expect you to know the difference between opex and capex.

[Artey]

walm said:

Artey said:

Well that's not entirely true and I'm surprised (or perhaps not) that Tesla fanbois don't know the actual st that went down before Tesla S launch. And that's why Musk was so happy to start collecting deposits for Model 3 before they've even finalised the design.

Do tell.
To be honest I know almost nothing about them pre-S!

(Although, once again, it is fairly standard to take deposits for pre-orders. Just look at the new Honda NSX.)

https://youtu.be/4RyLXdkmIIA?t=40m51s

I'm looking forward to the subsequent discussion with all of you guys.

[walm]

Artey said:

Since you consider yourself to be a financial expert in all things accounting I'd expect you to know the difference between opex and capex.

Well, car parts are neither. They're COGS!!

[Leithen]

Artey said:

walm said:

Artey said:

Well that's not entirely true and I'm surprised (or perhaps not) that Tesla fanbois don't know the actual st that went down before Tesla S launch. And that's why Musk was so happy to start collecting deposits for Model 3 before they've even finalised the design.

Do tell.
To be honest I know almost nothing about them pre-S!

(Although, once again, it is fairly standard to take deposits for pre-orders. Just look at the new Honda NSX.)

https://youtu.be/4RyLXdkmIIA?t=40m51s

I'm looking forward to the subsequent discussion with all of you guys.

If you've been paying any attention to Musk, you'd of course be well aware that he's been remarkably open about Tesla's beginnings, failures and mistakes, and continues to be.

There are plenty of areas where one might think that new models plans will have problems (development/testing schedules etc), but cashflow isn't the issue it used to be.

[Artey]

walm said:

Artey said:

Since you consider yourself to be a financial expert in all things accounting I'd expect you to know the difference between opex and capex.

Well, car parts are neither. They're COGS!!

I shouldn't but LOL

[Artey]

Leithen said:

Artey said:

walm said:

Artey said:

Well that's not entirely true and I'm surprised (or perhaps not) that Tesla fanbois don't know the actual st that went down before Tesla S launch. And that's why Musk was so happy to start collecting deposits for Model 3 before they've even finalised the design.

Do tell.
To be honest I know almost nothing about them pre-S!

(Although, once again, it is fairly standard to take deposits for pre-orders. Just look at the new Honda NSX.)

https://youtu.be/4RyLXdkmIIA?t=40m51s

I'm looking forward to the subsequent discussion with all of you guys.

If you've been paying any attention to Musk, you'd of course be well aware that he's been remarkably open about Tesla's beginnings, failures and mistakes, and continues to be.

There are plenty of areas where one might think that new models plans will have problems (development/testing schedules etc), but cashflow isn't the issue it used to be.

On paper, sure. Deferral of certain aspects through creative accounting does wonders. There's been countless number of companies that claimed that and they don't exist anymore.

If you were to bet 100k of your money would you be happy to say that if all of the people who put deposit towards Model 3 were to pull out Tesla would still be in the same position to launch it as it is now?

[WestyCarl]

Artey said:

On paper, sure. Deferral of certain aspects through creative accounting does wonders. There's been countless number of companies that claimed that and they don't exist anymore.

If you were to bet 100k of your money would you be happy to say that if all of the people who put deposit towards Model 3 were to pull out Tesla would still be in the same position to launch it as it is now?

Off course not as it'd show to have no market for the model 3.......
The deposit(s) are nothing more than a gauge of future earnings which allows Tesla to source finance.

[Tuna]

98elise said:

Yes you are constantly looking to pick holes in Teslas business model without having a clue. You keep bleating about profit as if they need to build new factories every year.

Wow, I thought this was just discussing the prospect of an upcoming model - nothing more. All I've said here is that I think there is risk in this launch, and when some people have jumped down my throat, I've tried to justify my position. I'm not sure where you get the 'bleating about profit' thing from - I've used the word once in this recent discussion and have previously made it quite clear I understand that Tesla are ploughing everything into this model launch.

You are of course right that I have at no point been the Chief Financial Officer of a global car company. I didn't know that was an entry requirement for this thread.

I will admit some of my response is tempered by personal experience. I've sat in impressive demonstrators, been invited to press launches and put down a few thousand pound deposit (non escrow) for a car that was subsequently canned. The court case that followed caused me to look into how car companies finance their developments and how customers are protected from the unforseen or for that matter outright fraud. It also highlighted the world of difference between marketing, customer expectation and final deliverable product.

[The Vambo]

Artey said:

walm said:

Artey said:

Well that's not entirely true and I'm surprised (or perhaps not) that Tesla fanbois don't know the actual st that went down before Tesla S launch. And that's why Musk was so happy to start collecting deposits for Model 3 before they've even finalised the design.

Do tell.
To be honest I know almost nothing about them pre-S!

(Although, once again, it is fairly standard to take deposits for pre-orders. Just look at the new Honda NSX.)

https://youtu.be/4RyLXdkmIIA?t=40m51s

I'm looking forward to the subsequent discussion with all of you guys.

How about.... and even through all that be still managed land a $1.6B contract from Nasa and then close funding for Tesla at the same time?

Did you mean it was a negative thing?

[Willy Nilly]

I saw a few Teslas on the continent last week, they were all taxis I believe and lovely looking cars.

[Blaster72]

If anyone wants to try out a Model S , Avis Prestige now have them to rent.

I was tempted but they're limited to 100 miles per day and quite expensive. (£430 a day)

http://www.avisprestige.com/tesla-model-s-85d-i-21...

It might at least give an idea of what driving and living with a Tesla is like for a bit before putting a deposit on a Model 3

[98elise]

Artey said:

98elise said:

walm said:

Artey said:

Cashflow isn't important you say...

No.
He didn't say that.

He said the cashflows for a publicly-listed multi-billion dollar business are different to those of a corner shop.

Exactly. Lean Manufacturing (or JIT) with 60-90 day terms mean you're building cars without having to pay for the parts until way after the car is built.

Corner shops generally have to pay for goods up front at the wholesaler

Even your local garage will get parts on account, and will have sold them to you before they h
ave to pay for them.

Since you consider yourself to be a financial expert in all things accounting I'd expect you to know the difference between opex and capex.

I don't consider myself a financial expert, but I inderstand the fundamentals (I've owned a couple of businesses in my time). I pay an accountant to do the serious stuff. Yes I do know the difference between opex and capex.

[London424]

Tesla have made an offer to buy solarcity.

Interesting move.

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-makes-offer...

[babatunde]

London424 said:

Tesla have made an offer to buy solarcity.

Interesting move.

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-makes-offer...

to quote someone else... "Every time i think musk might be making a bad move i am forced to remember that he had this crazy-ass idea to start a space rocket business using money he made from an online money transfer service and now it's the most cost-efficient solution for getting things into space, with technological advances that no government-owned space program has achieved."

The man builds Rocket Ships, which is going to be my standard answer to anyone who doubts Tesla is here to stay

[p1stonhead]

London424 said:

Tesla have made an offer to buy solarcity.

Interesting move.

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-makes-offer...

Why would he buy his own company when he could just set up beneficial deals between the two just as easy?

[walm]

London424 said:

Tesla have made an offer to buy solarcity.

Interesting move.

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tesla-makes-offer...

This looks sketchy as hell.
TSLA down -13% in the aftermarket.
Shareholders not happy.

[EricE]

p1stonhead said:

Why would he buy his own company when he could just set up beneficial deals between the two just as easy?

Tinfoil hat theory: It's expected/acceptable for SolarCity to post massive losses for the next few years as they're giving out 20yr+ loans for their solar appliances. I suspect Musk will use SolarCity's finances to hide Tesla Motor's losses. They stopped reporting their cash flows a while ago.
Of course if you'd ask him personally he'd tell you it's all about vertical integration, synergies, etc.

[walm]

EricE said:

Tinfoil hat theory: It's expected/acceptable for SolarCity to post massive losses for the next few years as they're giving out 20yr+ loans for their solar appliances. I suspect Musk will use SolarCity's finances to hide Tesla Motor's losses. They stopped reporting their cash flows a while ago.
Of course if you'd ask him personally he'd tell you it's all about vertical integration, synergies, etc.

Who stopped reporting cash flows a while ago?

[John_S4x4]

Spy pics

http://jalopnik.com/this-tesla-model-3-prototype-s...

[FurtiveFreddy]

walm said:

Shareholders not happy.

Musk isn't happy about his own deal?