Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
I ordered my model 3 Thursday morning in store. No queue at 11am, in and out in exactly 6 minutes, leaving with a parting 'welcome to the family' which I thought was rather cheesy but also quite nice in equal measure.
The staff came up with a valid point. Both my local Tesla store ( 7 miles away from home) and a destination charger (local hotel 4 miles from home) either have a gym (part of the hotel) or next door (Tesla store) so it will be cheaper to have a gym membership and visit a couple of times a week and get a recharge at the same time than charge at home. Win win as far as I can tell.
The staff came up with a valid point. Both my local Tesla store ( 7 miles away from home) and a destination charger (local hotel 4 miles from home) either have a gym (part of the hotel) or next door (Tesla store) so it will be cheaper to have a gym membership and visit a couple of times a week and get a recharge at the same time than charge at home. Win win as far as I can tell.
s3fella said:
Pommygranite said:
Using the word 'to be honest' doesn't make you right.
You've said they won't deliver them due to demand.
You've said it will become £50k.
You hypothesised the charge point scenario.
You're cynical.
And you do realise this is a global vehicle, not one that will die on its arse just because you feel it won't work in the UK.
You're mistaking viability with desirability. It doesn't matter about viability, it just matters if people feel it offers them something they can benefit from.
Let me explain. You've said they won't deliver them due to demand.
You've said it will become £50k.
You hypothesised the charge point scenario.
You're cynical.
And you do realise this is a global vehicle, not one that will die on its arse just because you feel it won't work in the UK.
You're mistaking viability with desirability. It doesn't matter about viability, it just matters if people feel it offers them something they can benefit from.
How will they deliver 150,000 (saome estimates now at 250k orders)? How many cars are they currently making a year (*PS I know, look it up)
I said the demand a wait lists will result in cars that ARE delivered attracting a premium, and I'd suggest £50k is not too far off the mark. When I lived in USA, and the new "retro" Mustang came out, dealers were selling them at $20k over list price, official dealers that is. Private and indy dealers were even worse.
I haven't hyposthsised the carge point scenario, I have said that no one will do it for free and you will have to pay. At present, most we use out and about are free. That is not sustainable, unless you believe in fairies.
People will see it as desireable, until they start to run the numbers and see the limitations that EVs will ALWAYS have. They just will, until they can get electric to run out of a pump into a tank.
I am an EV user. And I know their limitations, and the limitations of the infrastructure. If EVs become the normal mode of transport, they will have to become far more pricey to run, so as the people putting in the infrastructure and making the things can make money, and at present, something like a ZOE is only just viable cost wise with £5k from HM Gov, £5k from Reanult, and 0 APR leaseing, when you compare it to a similar spec 1.5 diesel Clio. We went for one, as a novelty as much as anything, and it has been fine. But we've already seen the effect of the cheap Zoe and Leaf lease deals in more EVS about which has resulted in charging issues already and in one case a very angry man who abused my wife for charging up for an hour in Manchester in a free space that "he always uses".
And that is the nub of it, they are viable at the mo, and the range anxiety is offset by things like free parking and priority in certain circumatances. But when there are loads about, (and be honest, how many do YOU see a day), well the infrastructure will need to be expanded and that will cost money. And EV users will have to pay for it. Ignore the TBH if you like, but you are incredibly naïve to think otherwise.
What EV do you run and how do you find things with it. Have you not seen the difference in the last 12 months since the super chap lease deals came on..? We have in the last 6.
ks arguement that always happens on the Internet. The 'well you don't own one so what do you know' point. I don't need to have owned an EV to work out how beneficial this car is on a global scale. If we're comparing running a bloody Zoe in Manchester, well good for you, you win. But I'm not.I live in Australia. I and many others have garages with power points in them. So for some that this wont work there are plenty that will.
When the petrol engine was invented there were no petrol stations. You can probably guess where the world is headed...
s3fella said:
Pommygranite said:
Using the word 'to be honest' doesn't make you right.
You've said they won't deliver them due to demand.
You've said it will become £50k.
You hypothesised the charge point scenario.
You're cynical.
And you do realise this is a global vehicle, not one that will die on its arse just because you feel it won't work in the UK.
You're mistaking viability with desirability. It doesn't matter about viability, it just matters if people feel it offers them something they can benefit from.
Let me explain. You've said they won't deliver them due to demand.
You've said it will become £50k.
You hypothesised the charge point scenario.
You're cynical.
And you do realise this is a global vehicle, not one that will die on its arse just because you feel it won't work in the UK.
You're mistaking viability with desirability. It doesn't matter about viability, it just matters if people feel it offers them something they can benefit from.
How will they deliver 150,000 (saome estimates now at 250k orders)? How many cars are they currently making a year (*PS I know, look it up)
I said the demand a wait lists will result in cars that ARE delivered attracting a premium, and I'd suggest £50k is not too far off the mark. When I lived in USA, and the new "retro" Mustang came out, dealers were selling them at $20k over list price, official dealers that is. Private and indy dealers were even worse.
I haven't hyposthsised the carge point scenario, I have said that no one will do it for free and you will have to pay. At present, most we use out and about are free. That is not sustainable, unless you believe in fairies.
People will see it as desireable, until they start to run the numbers and see the limitations that EVs will ALWAYS have. They just will, until they can get electric to run out of a pump into a tank.
I am an EV user. And I know their limitations, and the limitations of the infrastructure. If EVs become the normal mode of transport, they will have to become far more pricey to run, so as the people putting in the infrastructure and making the things can make money, and at present, something like a ZOE is only just viable cost wise with £5k from HM Gov, £5k from Reanult, and 0 APR leaseing, when you compare it to a similar spec 1.5 diesel Clio. We went for one, as a novelty as much as anything, and it has been fine. But we've already seen the effect of the cheap Zoe and Leaf lease deals in more EVS about which has resulted in charging issues already and in one case a very angry man who abused my wife for charging up for an hour in Manchester in a free space that "he always uses".
And that is the nub of it, they are viable at the mo, and the range anxiety is offset by things like free parking and priority in certain circumatances. But when there are loads about, (and be honest, how many do YOU see a day), well the infrastructure will need to be expanded and that will cost money. And EV users will have to pay for it. Ignore the TBH if you like, but you are incredibly naïve to think otherwise.
What EV do you run and how do you find things with it. Have you not seen the difference in the last 12 months since the super chap lease deals came on..? We have in the last 6.
ks arguement that always happens on the Internet. The 'well you don't own one so what do you know' point. I don't need to have owned an EV to work out how beneficial this car is on a global scale. If we're comparing running a bloody Zoe in Manchester, well good for you, you win. But I'm not.I live in Australia. I and many others have garages with power points in them. So for some that this wont work there are plenty that will.
When the petrol engine was invented there were no petrol stations. You can probably guess where the world is headed...
RobDickinson said:
When people start hearing 2020 delivery dates they will go elsewhere I think, it will limit itself I guess!
I would imagine the production facility will be massively increased. The car factory is huge with only a very small amount of space currently used for S and X production. Given that the plan has always been to expand into this space when needed, i suspect they will ramp up earlier.I won't be cancelling my order. Every other car manufacturer is way behind, and don't seem to know what the car buying public want. I can walk into BMW and spend 30k on an electric car right now. BMW sell 20k I3's per year, and thats a premium brand major car manufacturer. With a rex option its doesn't have the "limited" range if the tesla.
I agree some will though if Tesla cannot meet demand in a reasonable timeframe. For my sake I hope lots pull out
Part of me loves what tesla are doing. Cool styling, rapid cars, instant torque etc.
But another part of me wonders whether it is really more efficient to convert energy to electricity at the power plant, charge a battery, then discharge it and convert it to kinetic energy via electric motors.
I bet there isn't that much difference vs an internal combustion engine and the world is a worse place without the sound of a 5 cylinder, v6, straight 6, v8, v12 petrol engine.
And of course, at some point your lion batteries will need replacing. I'd guess that will happen sooner than you think, based on my experience with every smartphone I've owned.
I'd still say people will be queuing up to buy these though.
But another part of me wonders whether it is really more efficient to convert energy to electricity at the power plant, charge a battery, then discharge it and convert it to kinetic energy via electric motors.
I bet there isn't that much difference vs an internal combustion engine and the world is a worse place without the sound of a 5 cylinder, v6, straight 6, v8, v12 petrol engine.
And of course, at some point your lion batteries will need replacing. I'd guess that will happen sooner than you think, based on my experience with every smartphone I've owned.
I'd still say people will be queuing up to buy these though.
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
They are not exclusive groups. My Tesla will be repacing a 4 pot eurobox. We live in a sea of clattery dirty diesils at the moment and I hope every one of them is replaced by EV's.If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
It will never repalce my weekend toy, even if it slaughters it on perfromance.
RobDickinson said:
When people start hearing 2020 delivery dates they will go elsewhere I think, it will limit itself I guess!
Given it's refundable I think the 'sensible' thing, if you can afford it, is to treat the deposit as an option to buy.By 2019 - 2020 I suspect that there will be 200 mile electric cars of about this price point from most current EV sellers, some more existing car manufacturers and a bunch of firms like Apple, Dyson and the Chinese who we have never heard of.
The current CCS standard (the charging system used by many of the non-asian manufacturers) allows 150 Kw charging which is a bit quicker than the current Tesla standard. Audi has been making commitments about building a 150 Kw network as they need it to support their Q6 e-Tron which is scheduled for 2018. The CCS group are already discussing 350 Kw which (I believe) is the basis of Porsche's claims for their forthcoming car. At 350 Kw I suspect there will be little difference in time needed to 'refuel' a EV and ICE. The need for more range, at some point, will be offset by faster charging.
Battery prices per KwH have been falling faster than anticipated. Tesla makes big claims about the market share of their Gigafactory but others are also making similar investments. Tesla's claims are against current production, not production when it's operational. I read a report that it will be cheaper by 2022 to produce and EV than a similar ICE. Not sure what battery size they were comparing though.
A DC fast charger is currently about €25,000 compared to €1,000,000 for a petrol station. I'm guessing that they need minimal planning permission. As the car base increases I think we'll see them appear pretty quickly. There is a sustainable business model for charging out there.
I used a DC charger last weekend which I'm guessing is how the industry will end up: it was bookable (not that I did), they charged per KwH + a cost per minute. You could pay via an app or via credit card. The nav systems in EV cars or on the apps already show which chargers are already occupied. 'Slow' charging I guess will be free to encourage visits by businesses but you'll pay more for speed. As was mentioned before, as an EV owner leaves home with a full charge it's actually rare to need to charge on route.
My guess is that Hydrogen will be useful for commercial vehicles like lorries where it's disadvantages could be more easily managed.
Got my confirmation email this morning. Also showed my wife the pictures and we discussed the features. Same opinion "game changer" and "why would anyone buy anything else".
Thinking of putting a second deposit down in all honesty. First one is mine and then we could sell the second one for a premium.
Thinking of putting a second deposit down in all honesty. First one is mine and then we could sell the second one for a premium.
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
One could say the same about drive a soulless white goods Audi, but it's a free country..If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
And one that is changing to phase out the stinking old oil burners.
After 24 hours of deliberating, I've just put down a deposit. We have an i3 REX, which with one fuel top en route gives an effective easy range of 180 miles. If the Model 3 can do this with pure electric drive, 5 seats, fancy glass roof and a good dose of design then that will be a significant upgrade as far as I am concerned.
I love the i3 and it's instant torque, and have been surprised how often I choose to use it over our other car (2007 Jag XKR), so the next gen electric car seems like a good path to follow. We live in south London, and can charge on our drive, so that bit is easy.
The refundable deposit makes this a simpler decision too.
Excited.
I love the i3 and it's instant torque, and have been surprised how often I choose to use it over our other car (2007 Jag XKR), so the next gen electric car seems like a good path to follow. We live in south London, and can charge on our drive, so that bit is easy.
The refundable deposit makes this a simpler decision too.
Excited.
this is like the progression in music delivery tech. vinyl (petrol) was king, and along came digital media in various forms (minidisk, CD, etc). CDs won out, and then along came mp3, and here we are with streaming services which are not yet ubiquitous, but on the way.
yes, there are a few who still love their vinyl, and probably some who have a vast minidisk collection (plug in hybrids), but music over the ether is where we're heading. who would have thought we'd have had the bandwidth to so that a few years ago?
bit clumsy as an analogy, but you should get the point!
right, i'm off to take my minidisk player off charge! (outlander phev)
yes, there are a few who still love their vinyl, and probably some who have a vast minidisk collection (plug in hybrids), but music over the ether is where we're heading. who would have thought we'd have had the bandwidth to so that a few years ago?
bit clumsy as an analogy, but you should get the point!
right, i'm off to take my minidisk player off charge! (outlander phev)
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff