Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
Don't forget, very few people own a strung out V8 so banning anyone who doesn't own one would certainly make the road network better.
The EV though is perfect for all of us who love the sound of iconic petrol engines. The reason being that we cannot hear the great sounding engines because of all the industrial clatter of 4 pot utility generators. Swap all the crappy engines for EVs and you'll be able to hear Ferraris etc from several miles away.
In reality, every switching to quiet EVs for sitting in traffic jams will be a massive benefit to all of us who love hearing really nice, big cc petrol engines.
Durzel said:
Not to rain on the parade but isn't anyone who places a deposit now going to be pretty damn far down the order books?
Missing the point. You're just joining the latest craze. Once the buzz dies down and the next bit of excitement replaces it then many will just take the money back and move on. They might not realise it but they have absolutely no intention of actually buying a car, just being part of a live craze for a while. Durzel said:
Not to rain on the parade but isn't anyone who places a deposit now going to be pretty damn far down the order books?
I'd expect to get it in late 2020. Knowing Musk's track record there will be a general 1 year delay until the first cars trickle out to the US west coast (late 2018).
Then as production ramps up the east coast gets theirs (mid 2019), then europe (early 2020), then RHD markets (mid 2020).
Thats my wildly optimistic estimate considering Tesla currently produces 50.000 cars per year and the Model 3 already has 200.000 preorders.
Plenty of time for other car manufacturers to catch up unless some sort of miracle happens and Tesla pumps out 200.000 cars/year in the first year of production.
Pommygranite said:
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
But you drive an Audi A3 tdi... but at least it's and S-Line If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
That is what me mate on facebook said
Its great it does 95mpg while sitting at a ton whiel you
in you electric cars are suck in the slow laneEdited by Big Al. on Saturday 2nd April 10:31
Have you ever heard of a mainstream family car being pre ordered a year and a half in advance before its on the road in these numbers? Golf, Focus, 1 series?
This is a revelation and just shows the that if there is a decent EV on the market people will buy it.
Lots of talk on here about the lack of range, but when does the average person drive over 240 miles in one go?
This is a revelation and just shows the that if there is a decent EV on the market people will buy it.
Lots of talk on here about the lack of range, but when does the average person drive over 240 miles in one go?
wings_over said:
Pommygranite said:
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
But you drive an Audi A3 tdi... but at least it's and S-Line If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
That is what me mate on facebook said
Its great it does 95mpg while sitting at a ton whiel you
in you electric cars are suck in the slow lane' ? Oh dear, are you from the past?Edited by Big Al. on Saturday 2nd April 10:32
The latest Tony Stark, sorry, Elon tweets, are tat they are now switching to plan B for production roll out, Which probably means subcontracting to someone else. The factory they have in Califorina used to knock out 500,000 GMs and Toyotas a year, but currently is mostly vacant. I don't think they can go from 50k to 500k a year that quick. I'd assume the are gong to build several tens of lines but each will take several months to set up. Even if they have staff being trained by watching the early lines setting up it's going to take some time to reach scale. I really don't expect to be sitting in a Model 3 till early 2019 at the very earliest, but maybe closer to 2020! That's maybe not going to happen thought... With an order book worth $7.5 Billion you can get some serious financial backing to get those produced.
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
Who doesn't like a V8?* What I don't like is the sound of a diesel idling. The sound of a electric car when stopped is bliss.If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
The Tesla launch doesn't line up with my current lease finish so it won't be my next car, however I certainly will be considering it for the car after that.
- (I was stood next to a Jaguar hearse yesterday that drove off rather quickly, sounded really good!)
wings_over said:
I think anyone who buys an EV should be banned from driving
If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
My (semi-achievable) intention is, in 2020, to have replaced our i3REX with the Model 3, and our XKR with a 4 year old McLaren 540/570 .... And I reckon each will be just as enjoyable to drive in their own unique way. Horses for courses ...If you don't love the sound of a strung out V8 then you have no place on the road in my opinion
I've recently had a new company car (Jaguar XE) but the Tesla will be choice next time round.
Whats not to like? Cracking looking car, different (fresh, clean uncluttered lines) interior, lots of luggage space, never having to get your hands dirty filling up with smelly diesel again, simply plug in when you get home (wont be long before they have those plates you drive over and it charges without you having to plug anything in - like the phones do now) and monster performance.
Give it a year or so and they will have performance models (m-sport/R-sport/AMG type of thing) where they will look even more sporty and they will trounce over their competitors performance wise.
Due to the low center of gravity they go round corners nice too.
People saying that the BMW i3 is more advanced - maybe so, but look at it, it looks like its trying to hard to look modern and doesn't look sexy at all.
You look like a proper tree hugger driving an i3 whereas when I see people in a Tesla I think - cool person, know their stuff.
Those people dismissing the Tesla on here simply don't like change.
Clever people get to own S-class Mercs, 7-series BMW's etc as they are in high positions and thats the car of choice for people who have made it to the top -and the Tesla is out selling these cars in the US etc - doesn't that say it all?
Its the future!
Whats not to like? Cracking looking car, different (fresh, clean uncluttered lines) interior, lots of luggage space, never having to get your hands dirty filling up with smelly diesel again, simply plug in when you get home (wont be long before they have those plates you drive over and it charges without you having to plug anything in - like the phones do now) and monster performance.
Give it a year or so and they will have performance models (m-sport/R-sport/AMG type of thing) where they will look even more sporty and they will trounce over their competitors performance wise.
Due to the low center of gravity they go round corners nice too.
People saying that the BMW i3 is more advanced - maybe so, but look at it, it looks like its trying to hard to look modern and doesn't look sexy at all.
You look like a proper tree hugger driving an i3 whereas when I see people in a Tesla I think - cool person, know their stuff.
Those people dismissing the Tesla on here simply don't like change.
Clever people get to own S-class Mercs, 7-series BMW's etc as they are in high positions and thats the car of choice for people who have made it to the top -and the Tesla is out selling these cars in the US etc - doesn't that say it all?
Its the future!
Kermit74 said:
Have you ever heard of a mainstream family car being pre ordered a year and a half in advance before its on the road in these numbers? Golf, Focus, 1 series?
This is a revelation and just shows the that if there is a decent EV on the market people will buy it.
Lots of talk on here about the lack of range, but when does the average person drive over 240 miles in one go?
Average UK daily car commute is <9 miles. This is a revelation and just shows the that if there is a decent EV on the market people will buy it.
Lots of talk on here about the lack of range, but when does the average person drive over 240 miles in one go?
Where the Tesla product scores is that for the average car commuter you can charge it on a Sunday and not worry about it for the rest of the week. All the competitors have opted for much lower ranges which are absolutely fine on a day to day basis but does mean that you have to charge every day which I think makes a big difference.
NelsonP said:
Part of me loves what tesla are doing. Cool styling, rapid cars, instant torque etc.
But another part of me wonders whether it is really more efficient to convert energy to electricity at the power plant, charge a battery, then discharge it and convert it to kinetic energy via electric motors.
I bet there isn't that much difference vs an internal combustion engine and the world is a worse place without the sound of a 5 cylinder, v6, straight 6, v8, v12 petrol engine.
And of course, at some point your lion batteries will need replacing. I'd guess that will happen sooner than you think, based on my experience with every smartphone I've owned.
I'd still say people will be queuing up to buy these though.
If you read elsewhere, even just in this thread, you will find all the answers to your guesses so there is no need to wonder. However, you would lose your bet.But another part of me wonders whether it is really more efficient to convert energy to electricity at the power plant, charge a battery, then discharge it and convert it to kinetic energy via electric motors.
I bet there isn't that much difference vs an internal combustion engine and the world is a worse place without the sound of a 5 cylinder, v6, straight 6, v8, v12 petrol engine.
And of course, at some point your lion batteries will need replacing. I'd guess that will happen sooner than you think, based on my experience with every smartphone I've owned.
I'd still say people will be queuing up to buy these though.
1) A petrol engine is about 20% efficient (http://courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm) but you then lose a chunk more to the transmission. Electric engine is about 95% efficient and doesn't have a transmission. That electric car could easily be powered by someone's solar panels on their roof, so ... 90% efficient from source to delivery. Whereas the petrol car needs the fuel to be extracted, refined and shipped.
Work all the way back to where the energy came from and you still find that the electric car is more efficient - even in a worse case scenario (burning oil in a power plant, transmitting it over the grid, charging the battery) the electric car has twice the efficiency simply because a big generator is more efficient than a little mobile one.
2) 95% of cars are clattery 4 cylinder diesel or weedy petrol lumps. I'm not interested in listening to them and if a V8 does happen to pass by it is drowned out by the clapped out BMW 320d driver who feels the urge to rev their car too.
3) Tesla (and Nissan) warranty their batteries for 8 years. Tesla for unlimited miles, Nissan for 100,000 miles. Given the way you design a warranty to ensure you will have minimal payouts, you can "guess" that they have worked out they have at least a 16 year/200000 mile lifespan.
So, Tesla have got 150,000 and rising deposits for a car which in most markets is 2+ years away.
Audi, with their brand new A4 available right now, have to give them away on super cheap lease deals to shift them out the door.
If Tesla actually deliver a product which lives up to expectations and can meet demand it will cause some serious musings in the C-Class/A4/3-Series/XE sector.
Audi, with their brand new A4 available right now, have to give them away on super cheap lease deals to shift them out the door.
If Tesla actually deliver a product which lives up to expectations and can meet demand it will cause some serious musings in the C-Class/A4/3-Series/XE sector.
I've been keen on an EV as a daily driver for several years but have been put off by several reasons, namely a combination of range, price, performance and looks.
On paper at least the Model 3 will address all of the above for me, and also 250,000 others it seems.
If I can get a decent spec and performance for around £35k I would be very happy and 2018/19 would be fine.
On paper at least the Model 3 will address all of the above for me, and also 250,000 others it seems.
If I can get a decent spec and performance for around £35k I would be very happy and 2018/19 would be fine.
Kermit74 said:
Have you ever heard of a mainstream family car being pre ordered a year and a half in advance before its on the road in these numbers? Golf, Focus, 1 series?
This is a revelation and just shows the that if there is a decent EV on the market people will buy it.
Lots of talk on here about the lack of range, but when does the average person drive over 240 miles in one go?
People are buying the hype. Have you ever heard of someone committing to a $35,000 purchase without reading a single independent review?This is a revelation and just shows the that if there is a decent EV on the market people will buy it.
Lots of talk on here about the lack of range, but when does the average person drive over 240 miles in one go?
This is cars as white goods, a better iDevice to show your neighbours. By going balls to the wall on large scale manufacturing, Musk is pushing development further than any mainstream manufacturer dares to - but his is an all or nothing bet. The large scale manufacturers have been here a very long time, they remember the big crashes in demand over the years and they all plan to be around for decades to come. It makes them cautious. In contrast Musk has got to either go big or go home. He's pushed government support to it's limit (that huge factory is massively subsidised) and he's built up capacity for half a million cars a year (that's currently sitting idle). I've got a huge amount of respect for him, because it's a gamble that looks to pay off. But then, so did Delorean for a while. A lot rides on this car nailing it and none of the competition putting in a curve ball in the next two or three years.
As for the car itself? 3 Series saloon - meh. It's slick, for sure, but I can't get excited about that styling. A safe family saloon has never been on my wish list though - but I can see that it'll appeal to a lot of people.
The electrical underpinnings are interesting, but I don't know that this is anything like the end game for cars. I'm sure it's a joy to drive but there are some interesting alternatives being worked on, the battery technology is still stubbornly old school and the prospect of changes in legislation when EVs become 'mainstream' mean that it's still very early to be buying into the dream. That's not saying the car industry isn't going to be transformed over the next couple of decades - just that there could be some very painful bumps along the way. When you're investing in that 'vision' to the tune of $35,000 you need to be pretty confident you can cope with a few hassles.
Tesla are being clever here and tying people into orders for a vehicle which will be fighting in a market about to be flooded by the usual suspect car manufacturers in the next few years.
The technology to build electric cars is now approaching 300 miles on a single charge, this is the tipping point for the big boys and they are all racing to release their own electric vehicles over the next few years.
Tesla will be dead in 5-10 years time as the big boys start releasing their own EVs and use scales of production to push down prices.
The technology to build electric cars is now approaching 300 miles on a single charge, this is the tipping point for the big boys and they are all racing to release their own electric vehicles over the next few years.
Tesla will be dead in 5-10 years time as the big boys start releasing their own EVs and use scales of production to push down prices.
Piersman2 said:
Tesla will be dead in 5-10 years time as the big boys start releasing their own EVs and use scales of production to push down prices.
This may well be, Musk always stated that he founded Tesla soley to force the industry into building cars that run on renewable energy. To his surprise it takes the old industry much longer to react than he expected, so now he's building a mass product. He never intended to compete with the big ones.Decent looking car by the way.
craste said:
Give it a year or so and they will have performance models (m-sport/R-sport/AMG type of thing) where they will look even more sporty and they will trounce over their competitors performance wise.
This is where people misunderstand EV tech. This is the sporty model. It's every model. There's not that much you can do to dramatically change the performance or range - and Tesla is happy to provide 'ludicrous' sports mode on every model they build. At this stage, it'll pay them not to do any styling tweaks so what you get out of the factory is what you get out of the factory. Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff