Tesla Model 3 revealed
Discussion
HB2K said:
Yes, that makes sense. I wondered if it would be an equivalent sort of loss. My next question is whether there is enough lithium in the world for everyone to get one of these?! I know they are constructing a massive factory to make the batteries but lithium isn't found everywhere.
We will run out of magnets before we run out of lithium. This is a game-changer for me. I will very seriously consider buying one of these in a couple of years.
I currently drive just under 32k miles per year and I spend almost £400 per month in fuel. This will save me a fortune and the range is perfect for my commute to work.
Very excited to see more....
I currently drive just under 32k miles per year and I spend almost £400 per month in fuel. This will save me a fortune and the range is perfect for my commute to work.
Very excited to see more....
Ozzie Osmond said:
* To which people are these cars most suitable? City dwellers.
The electric market will become self-limiting for these reasons. The lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well. So there's plenty of life in the small petrol engine yet.
Surely, as others have said, most people will recharge at home, won't they. How many people regularly do over 200 miles in one go? And for those living in flats on-road or in-carpark charging points will be installed, as they already have been in some places.- Which people are least likely to be able to charge the car at home, parked on the street? City dwellers.
- How many petrol pumps are there at a typical petrol station for a 5 minute fill-up? Six
- How many electric parking points would be needed for equivalent 30 minute charging? Thirty-six [!!]
The electric market will become self-limiting for these reasons. The lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well. So there's plenty of life in the small petrol engine yet.
Ozzie Osmond said:
* To which people are these cars most suitable? City dwellers.
The electric market will become self-limiting for these reasons. The lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well. So there's plenty of life in the small petrol engine yet.
Why city dwellers? I don't live or work in a city but I have a 20 mile commute if I go to work, surely that's pretty common?- Which people are least likely to be able to charge the car at home, parked on the street? City dwellers.
- How many petrol pumps are there at a typical petrol station for a 5 minute fill-up? Six
- How many electric parking points would be needed for equivalent 30 minute charging? Thirty-six [!!]
The electric market will become self-limiting for these reasons. The lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well. So there's plenty of life in the small petrol engine yet.
How many petrol pumps would you typically need if everyone could fill up at home too?
With range, faster fill ups and probably other areas the petrol car still has plenty of life. But I can easily see an average house with 2.4
Ozzie Osmond said:
* How many petrol pumps are there at a typical petrol station for a 5 minute fill-up? Six
While I also am not convinced that electric cars will take over, at least not soon, I'm not sure about this point. It's countered by the fact that everybody already has electricity at home, whereas I don't know anyone who has their own personal petrol pump. Also, installing a charging point has got to be cheaper than building a petrol station. E.g. there's one outside my local library. Took about a day to install.- How many electric parking points would be needed for equivalent 30 minute charging? Thirty-six [!!]
kambites said:
HB2K said:
Yes, that makes sense. I wondered if it would be an equivalent sort of loss. My next question is whether there is enough lithium in the world for everyone to get one of these?! I know they are constructing a massive factory to make the batteries but lithium isn't found everywhere.
Lithium is the 25th most common element in the earth's crust. The question isn't whether there's enough, it's how much it costs to extract (both financially and environmentally). thinkofaname said:
Also, installing a charging point has got to be cheaper than building a petrol station. E.g. there's one outside my local library. Took about a day to install.
This is true to a point, but for the really fast chargers, the number that can be installed cheaply at a given location will be limited by electrical substation capacity. Places like motorway service stations will probably need significant infrastructure upgrades to be able to install tens of superchargers. JD said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well.
That's just as stupid as saying that petrol cars will not catch on due to oil running out.0000 said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
* To which people are these cars most suitable? City dwellers.
The electric market will become self-limiting for these reasons. The lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well. So there's plenty of life in the small petrol engine yet.
Why city dwellers? I don't live or work in a city but I have a 20 mile commute if I go to work, surely that's pretty common?- Which people are least likely to be able to charge the car at home, parked on the street? City dwellers.
- How many petrol pumps are there at a typical petrol station for a 5 minute fill-up? Six
- How many electric parking points would be needed for equivalent 30 minute charging? Thirty-six [!!]
The electric market will become self-limiting for these reasons. The lack of lithium and lack of electricity capacity as well. So there's plenty of life in the small petrol engine yet.
How many petrol pumps would you typically need if everyone could fill up at home too?
With range, faster fill ups and probably other areas the petrol car still has plenty of life. But I can easily see an average house with 2.4
I commute 60 miles to work, so 120 miles per day. That's well within the range offered and with a super charger installed in my garage it's very practical for me.
Another point to note is that fast charging is really not very good for Lithium cells. Some chemical compositions deal with it much better than others, but all of them lose capacity faster if you charge them very quickly than if you trickle charge them. For that reason, I think we're a long way from them being suitable for people who cover really huge mileages.
RobGT81 said:
HB2K said:
Yes, that makes sense. I wondered if it would be an equivalent sort of loss. My next question is whether there is enough lithium in the world for everyone to get one of these?! I know they are constructing a massive factory to make the batteries but lithium isn't found everywhere.
We will run out of magnets before we run out of lithium. Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
George111 said:
Also Lithium doesn't exist as Lithium anywhere because it's far too reactive. It has to be extracted at great cost and at great energy cost too so a lot of CO2 produced just to create one element used in the batteries before you even start thinking of charging them.
Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
Over the course of the life-time of a car, the electricity required to split water into hydrogen utterly dwarfs the electricity required to extract Lithium from brine. Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
Besides, platinum for fuel cells is even harder to find in sufficient quantities than Lithium.
Edited by kambites on Friday 1st April 10:20
kambites said:
George111 said:
Also Lithium doesn't exist as Lithium anywhere because it's far too reactive. It has to be extracted at great cost and at great energy cost too so a lot of CO2 produced just to create one element used in the batteries before you even start thinking of charging them.
Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
Over the course of the life-time of a car, the electricity required to split water into hydrogen utterly dwarfs the electricity required to extract Lithium from brine. Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
George111 said:
kambites said:
George111 said:
Also Lithium doesn't exist as Lithium anywhere because it's far too reactive. It has to be extracted at great cost and at great energy cost too so a lot of CO2 produced just to create one element used in the batteries before you even start thinking of charging them.
Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
Over the course of the life-time of a car, the electricity required to split water into hydrogen utterly dwarfs the electricity required to extract Lithium from brine. Hydrogen gets rid of many of the drawbacks of battery cars - slow refill and limited range. Still not perfect but that's the future.
I'm out.
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