Man-Maths Me this: An electric car and a petrol drop-top.

[romeogolf]

Currently we PCP a bog-standard C class diesel, but with my annual mileage being 22,000 the monthlies, including services, are £410. On top of this, we put just shy £200 of diesel in it each month.

We're moving home this year and while currently the other half walks to work, this move will require a bus with a monthly ticket of £130, although my commute remains unchanged at around 32 miles each way.

So, estimated monthly cost would be £740.

I miss having a convertible and I'm trying to justify swapping the C-class for an SLK or SLC, and a used electric jobby like a Leaf or Zoe. These are now sub £11k used, so a straight loan over 5 years would be around £200/month at most, potentially less if I PCP, plus £80/month to 'fuel' leaving me potentially £350/month for a SLK/SLC and then £100/month to stick fuel in it for the 12 miles/day the other half will be using it for plus any longer weekend trips we take.

So my questions are threefold:

(1) Does the 22kw Leaf have enough range for my commute (70 miles a day, return), plus a bit of back-up range if the weather is poor/I need to pop out during the day? I believe we pay around 14p per Kwh, so is it simple 22 x .14 = £3.08 per charge?

(2) How long does the battery last? If I bought a used Leaf, would the battery being dying on me in a few years? And if I do the leased-battery option, roughly what is the monthy cost of the lease? (I can't find it on their website for used cars).

(3) What have I missed in order to properly man-maths sell this to the other half in time for summer?

[austinsmirk]

I'm quite seriously looking into this- so I'll post some nissan quotes up (I'm literally awaiting their offers right now to be emailed through)

I think I'm ignoring new but going for 1-2 years old and no battery rental.

the older 2.4 kwh leafs will do up 100 miles, but less in winter on a charge. the newer 3.3 kwh claim 155 from charge. but there are far more experts than me on this subject.

I'm actually finding it hard to find one, nearby- eg a local dealer: but I only want a Tekna spec model with all the toys

[danp]

I don't own one (yet!) but I think you'd need the 30kWh one for that round trip.

You can PCP these new for £189 down and £189 a month for 3 years.

e.g. https://speakev.com/threads/brand-new-nissan-leaf-...

If you're only keeping it 3 years battery life isn't going to be a concern? (i.e. It won't drop off much in that time)

edit: have a look on speakev - lots on info on deals/battery life/range etc

Edited by danp on Monday 6th February 15:22

[gangzoom]

70 miles all year round your need the 30kWh car which in real life will be 100miles range in winter. My 24kWh will do 65-70 miles in coldest days and you really don't want to be pushing the range that far every day as 100-0% runs will shorten battery life compared to x2 100-50% discharges.

Nissan seem to be pushing new 30kWh cars at the moment so you should be able to get deals around £225-250/months on 2-3 year deals.

Used Leafs are great buys but only if your regular daily commute is around 60 miles. Batteries are lasting much longer than anticipated, there is a Taxi company with a 24kWh Leaf thats done 170k miles and only showing <20% degradation.

[anonymous-user]

Is there any way to get a chargepoint installed at work?

[romeogolf]

Thanks for all the replies so far, really useful info.

gangzoom said:

70 miles all year round your need the 30kWh car which in real life will be 100miles range in winter. My 24kWh will do 65-70 miles in coldest days and you really don't want to be pushing the range that far every day as 100-0% runs will shorten battery life compared to x2 100-50% discharges.

Nissan seem to be pushing new 30kWh cars at the moment so you should be able to get deals around £225-250/months on 2-3 year deals.

Used Leafs are great buys but only if your regular daily commute is around 60 miles. Batteries are lasting much longer than anticipated, there is a Taxi company with a 24kWh Leaf thats done 170k miles and only showing <20% degradation.

I have seen that post going around about the 170k mile Leaf, so that is promising. Will take a look at new PCP deals then - It seems to make sense for EVs where the values plummet, it's just my mileage which often deters me.

danp said:

I don't own one (yet!) but I think you'd need the 30kWh one for that round trip.

You can PCP these new for £189 down and £189 a month for 3 years.

e.g. https://speakev.com/threads/brand-new-nissan-leaf-...

If you're only keeping it 3 years battery life isn't going to be a concern? (i.e. It won't drop off much in that time)

edit: have a look on speakev - lots on info on deals/battery life/range etc

I think that the mileage limit here will be the problem, but thanks for the info.

JPJPJP said:

Is there any way to get a chargepoint installed at work?

Sadly not. It's complicated, but we looked into it last year and got no where. Private land, lack of interest from land owner, and also our car park is limited to who can park there - Putting a charging post in would encourage those who shouldn't be parking there to use it.

[danp]

15k miles p.a. might do you? £199 down and £230/month - mentioned in this thread:

https://speakev.com/threads/brand-new-leaf-acenta-...

[romeogolf]

danp said:

15k miles p.a. might do you? £199 down and £230/month - mentioned in this thread:

https://speakev.com/threads/brand-new-leaf-acenta-...

Thanks - Yeah, I'm looking through it now for a 20k PCP. My commute alone is around 18k/year and we'd probably use it around town a bit at weekends. Excess mileage could sting us.

[Amateurish]

romeogolf said:

Thanks - Yeah, I'm looking through it now for a 20k PCP. My commute alone is around 18k/year and we'd probably use it around town a bit at weekends. Excess mileage could sting us.

20k pa is going to sting on any new car finance. The Leaf will still end up being relatively cheap.

[austinsmirk]

ok- from Nissan

I've been offered 199 down, 199 mth, 6000 miles. acenta

500 down, 205 month, 8000 miles tekna. (a good deal)

500 down, 176 month, 8000 miles, used tekna. (still a good deal)

500 down, over 300 a month, 8000 miles, new tekna. a terrible deal



haven't seen 189/189 tekna anywhere. probably an old offer.


my man maths says.

wife does £100 a month in diesel and road fund. even the lesser deal of £176 would give her a nearly new car, for £76 a month more than we pay now.

looking at cost of her old car, its repair, depreciation: its actually cost me £169 a month over 5 years. well 69 a month and then 100 fuel/road fund.


so whether I use hard cash or finance it: I'm actually financially better off leasing/PCP'ing a leaf, for what we end up with v buying another diesel run around, that I will assume will de-vlaue at the same rate and need similar repairs.

Diesel is now £120.9 here a litre; can't see things getting better.

I'm also at the conclusion that its about as cheap to get a brand new one, as it is to get a used one. but I'm hoping a dealer is going to come up trumps on a used one and just nudge the monthly down.

[DeuxCentCinq]

austinsmirk said:

Diesel is now £120.9 here a litre; can't see things getting better.

fking Hell!


Seriously though, have a good look at both models. I wouldn't have got anything other than a Tekna as I love my music. Great having all the gadgets, too.

Edited by DeuxCentCinq on Wednesday 8th February 16:49

[austinsmirk]

well been badgering dealers- I can honestly say there is no point buying a used one.

they are either £4.00/£9.00 cheaper a month than a brand new one eg 18 mths old 10 k on and with a 2.4 battery.


new- the deal for me is

500 down, 205 month, 8000 miles tekna. (a good deal)

Just booked to get one for a 4 day test drive. it will be my wife's, she needs to see if she really wants it.

The EV forum is quite quiet: has anyone got a better deal/link/dealer et al for a Tekna with 8k miles PA ???? before I commit please ?

[danp]

austinsmirk said:

well been badgering dealers- I can honestly say there is no point buying a used one.

they are either £4.00/£9.00 cheaper a month than a brand new one eg 18 mths old 10 k on and with a 2.4 battery.


new- the deal for me is

500 down, 205 month, 8000 miles tekna. (a good deal)

Just booked to get one for a 4 day test drive. it will be my wife's, she needs to see if she really wants it.

The EV forum is quite quiet: has anyone got a better deal/link/dealer et al for a Tekna with 8k miles PA ???? before I commit please ?

Have you been on speakev.com? Miles from Nissan in Chorley has probably been the main man for deals recently, would be worth a try tho' yours sounds pretty good for a Tekna.

[austinsmirk]

Yep my deal is from miles. He's been very helpful.

[chandrew]

A year ago I also did the man maths and realised that an EV brought the costs down so much that it would be easier to justify something for occasional use.

We got an i3, 2 years old, probably the highest km on the market at the time. I think the previous owner might have been BMW Switzerland. Anyway, whoever it was they had lost almost 50% during that time.

Whilst the faults do bug me sometime as a cheap form of motoring it's fantastic if you look at total cost of ownership. The lease costs about what the petrol did in the Subaru Forester it's replaced as the daily driver (the subaru now is used for longer trips on going off road).

I wouldn't discount an i3 without doing the sums. I found that the difference in cost over something like a Zoe was minimal.

I have a BEV but given the commute I'd think about the Range Extender. You might never use the engine but it would help on a cold day just in case.

Mine came with 10 years free servicing.

[austinsmirk]

I've turned into my own leaf thread really. Anyway, will be getting a leaf tekna for a 4 day home trial next week.

Obviously I get more man and ph points if it was a 5.0 V8, but there you go.

[gangzoom]

austinsmirk said:

Obviously I get more man and ph points if it was a 5.0 V8, but there you go.

I thought to be counted as a 'man' you have to be over 18 and mature enough to make up your own mind on things, I just ignore the rubbish some people on here spew out because they think somehow it make them more manley

Enjoy the test drive, memories of my original Leaf test drive I did 2 years ago will live with me forever, it's one of those Eurika moments you only experience a handful of times in life .

[Welshbeef]

chandrew said:

A year ago I also did the man maths and realised that an EV brought the costs down so much that it would be easier to justify something for occasional use.

We got an i3, 2 years old, probably the highest km on the market at the time. I think the previous owner might have been BMW Switzerland. Anyway, whoever it was they had lost almost 50% during that time.

Whilst the faults do bug me sometime as a cheap form of motoring it's fantastic if you look at total cost of ownership. The lease costs about what the petrol did in the Subaru Forester it's replaced as the daily driver (the subaru now is used for longer trips on going off road).

I wouldn't discount an i3 without doing the sums. I found that the difference in cost over something like a Zoe was minimal.

I have a BEV but given the commute I'd think about the Range Extender. You might never use the engine but it would help on a cold day just in case.

Mine came with 10 years free servicing.

A 2 year old car with the highest miles for sale in the U.K. And you managed to haggle a 10 year free servicing...that is impressive

[austinsmirk]

Borrowing a leaf tekna for a 6 day home trial next week. Looking forward to it !

[Welshbeef]

What's the 0-30 mph of these things?

Know the i3 is pretty special showing an E92 M3 a clean pair of heels