Would this cause problems?
Discussion
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/mar/2...
Aggregating charging so that it doesn't start until demand on the grid is less
Aggregating charging so that it doesn't start until demand on the grid is less
A lot of SSE's power network is knackered as it is, the EVs are not the problem but they will make it worse, especially when house builders fit them on new homes and more people take them up. There isnt sufficient capacity for new homes in a lot of places and the network already needs a lot of infrastructure upgrading.
The smart/delayed charging will only work on banks of chargers at the moment, for example outside a block of flats. The car chargers on houses dont talk to each other at the moment unless there is a product I've not heard of yet.
I would imagine some high tarrifs being introduced by the government to pay for it somewhere along the line, even if it is not the car chargers that are the problem, it was already there but it's an easy target.
I would imagine people would be happier to get some charge rather than none though so downgraded charging rather than delayed would probably be better?
The smart/delayed charging will only work on banks of chargers at the moment, for example outside a block of flats. The car chargers on houses dont talk to each other at the moment unless there is a product I've not heard of yet.
I would imagine some high tarrifs being introduced by the government to pay for it somewhere along the line, even if it is not the car chargers that are the problem, it was already there but it's an easy target.
I would imagine people would be happier to get some charge rather than none though so downgraded charging rather than delayed would probably be better?
Edited by Paul 8v on Monday 20th March 22:42
Quite frankly unless the EV owner is stupid, of course they are going to take advantage of economy 7 to charge their cars.
This all plays back to the management of the grid, logical way forward would be for cars to upload power into the grid at peak times when car isn't needed and charge off peak, the programming for this is relatively simple and the infrastructure already exists (feed-in tariffs), EV's are actually part of the solution not part of the problem, unless of course the govt/Utilities find a way to penalise owners. Combine this with Solar and residential power storage (yes I know bloody Tesla again) then the need for new power plants should be minimal for all our power requirements.
This all plays back to the management of the grid, logical way forward would be for cars to upload power into the grid at peak times when car isn't needed and charge off peak, the programming for this is relatively simple and the infrastructure already exists (feed-in tariffs), EV's are actually part of the solution not part of the problem, unless of course the govt/Utilities find a way to penalise owners. Combine this with Solar and residential power storage (yes I know bloody Tesla again) then the need for new power plants should be minimal for all our power requirements.
It's an interesting response from them as several DNOs are going about it in different ways.
We have lots of customers considering off-peak tariffs but when they realise the timings involved they don't tend to bother as more and more are charging during the day at work (or the increased daily charges don't work out financially).
The problem with using Solar Panels to off-set charging is that for most domestic properties the car is at work away from home when that would be useful (apart from the weekends I suppose) so the best option is solar at the workplace and employees plug-in so that their commute is paid for!
But what the networks are rightly worried about is the 5-7pm end of commute plug-in spike when (not if) there are several hundred thousand EVs and PHEVs. Most cars will charge in 4-6 hours even on a standard home charge rate so really no need to charge at 6pm, but who can be arsed to run outside and plug it in at 11pm, and even if you take advantage of the programmed charging (done by the cars not the chargers) most people don't bother.
We're working on a solution but difficult to get funding for it as the charging companies just want to sell existing units & car manufacturers don't want anything to do with 3rd party charging equipment!
We have lots of customers considering off-peak tariffs but when they realise the timings involved they don't tend to bother as more and more are charging during the day at work (or the increased daily charges don't work out financially).
The problem with using Solar Panels to off-set charging is that for most domestic properties the car is at work away from home when that would be useful (apart from the weekends I suppose) so the best option is solar at the workplace and employees plug-in so that their commute is paid for!
But what the networks are rightly worried about is the 5-7pm end of commute plug-in spike when (not if) there are several hundred thousand EVs and PHEVs. Most cars will charge in 4-6 hours even on a standard home charge rate so really no need to charge at 6pm, but who can be arsed to run outside and plug it in at 11pm, and even if you take advantage of the programmed charging (done by the cars not the chargers) most people don't bother.
We're working on a solution but difficult to get funding for it as the charging companies just want to sell existing units & car manufacturers don't want anything to do with 3rd party charging equipment!
Exactly, what's a reasonable sized home charger going to be, 4kVA? Standard house is about 2kVA so suddenly you have all these people getting home from work, whacking the kettle on, charging the car etc. At the moment it isn't a problem but if there was a mass adoption of electric cars as they get cheaper it would cause a problem and needs to be planned for.
Battery storage from solar would help but the government nuked all the solar panels (Being so forward thinking) so that's not really an option as it stands. Discounted solar and battery storage may persuade some as long as they don't find a way of taxing "Sunshine"
Battery storage from solar would help but the government nuked all the solar panels (Being so forward thinking) so that's not really an option as it stands. Discounted solar and battery storage may persuade some as long as they don't find a way of taxing "Sunshine"
Paul 8v said:
That's OK for home chargers but what about rapids? A rapid charger is going to draw around 90kVA from the network (Equivalent to the supply to about 45 houses) and they are most likely to be used in the day by people.
I have a Tesla and whilst supercharging yesterday I hit 120kw (150kva?) all new cars/ chargers are capable of 145kw if the supply can keep up.I was thinking how is this going to scale up so have to agree this is going to be problem in the future.
... But to add my two pence I set my charger to start at midnight every night and take it to 80% using E7 energy. Unless I was empty or need to go higher this will be finished by the time I use the car at 8AM,
Also doing it this way the battery is warm when you get in so you get much better economy than waiting for the pack to warm up,
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/03/27/utilities-mov...
This is the ultimate game plan,
Beyond variable power consumption, many utilities are looking at the possibility of vehicle to grid (aka V2G) connectivity, which has the potential to enable utilities to tap into the batteries of thousands of electric vehicles as a single, distributed energy storage pool to help offset spikes in demand or drops in energy production elsewhere on the grid.
We already have situations where utilities are shutting off production of renewable energy sources due to excess supply at wrong times. It's mostly a software solution once the uptake of EVs reaches the mass market
This is the ultimate game plan,
Beyond variable power consumption, many utilities are looking at the possibility of vehicle to grid (aka V2G) connectivity, which has the potential to enable utilities to tap into the batteries of thousands of electric vehicles as a single, distributed energy storage pool to help offset spikes in demand or drops in energy production elsewhere on the grid.
We already have situations where utilities are shutting off production of renewable energy sources due to excess supply at wrong times. It's mostly a software solution once the uptake of EVs reaches the mass market
I think if you do the sums electric vehicle batteries are too expensive to make this worth while for the EV owner unless they can sell the energy to the grid at a very good rate. Your battery cycle life is being consumed.
My 1996 house supply is fused at 100A so 24KVA but this is only the maximum demand allowed. So charging, electric shower use etc. could approach this but averaged over many houses the grid cannot support this. So not sure what the electricity supply industry budgets as average demand. My actual average consumption looks to be a mere 1KW, i.e. 24KWh per day.
A 10,000 mile per year EV managing 300Wh per mile then requires 3000KWh per year or 8KWh per day which then doesn't sound that much.
My 1996 house supply is fused at 100A so 24KVA but this is only the maximum demand allowed. So charging, electric shower use etc. could approach this but averaged over many houses the grid cannot support this. So not sure what the electricity supply industry budgets as average demand. My actual average consumption looks to be a mere 1KW, i.e. 24KWh per day.
A 10,000 mile per year EV managing 300Wh per mile then requires 3000KWh per year or 8KWh per day which then doesn't sound that much.
My big concern with the vehicle feeding back to the grid would be battery cycle life. Based on a usage / charge pattern which would involve charging on a free to me point right outside the office door then don't see the energy company coming up with a price plan that would adequately compensate.
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