Why so few EV large saloons?
Discussion
raspy said:
Now that I've spent a good amount of time with a variety of SUVs, I can completely understand why they are so popular and why saloons aren't that popular anymore.
Hence, I've decided to adapt to changing times and have gone for an electric SUV.
The electric SUV will kill off a lot of estate cars as well, which will hopefully mean we don't have to put up much longer with the insufferable bores who will tell you at every opportunity why an estate car is superior in every way to an SUV. Nobody cares.Hence, I've decided to adapt to changing times and have gone for an electric SUV.
granada203028 said:
Cars have generally got larger over the years. Why aren't there any small EVs?
Honda E say is still large compared to an original 1960s Mini.
Honda E is also about as small as a practical car can be made these days - it's not electrification that's bloated it, it's safety and the requirement for lots of tech if you're to sell a car these days.Honda E say is still large compared to an original 1960s Mini.
On that basis, like the mini in the 60's, it's as small as it can sensibly be I suppose?
granada203028 said:
Cars have generally got larger over the years. Why aren't there any small EVs?
Honda E say is still large compared to an original 1960s Mini.
The three smallest cars you can buy in the UK are electric only, and six of the ten smallest are available in electric form. Honda E say is still large compared to an original 1960s Mini.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/96023...
What, no more estates? But they are superior in every way to SUVs… I think Porsche might have a thing or two to say about it anyhow. I don’t think Audi is about to give up on the fast estate either.
There are a few large EV saloons and I think there will be more. They sell well in the US if nothing else. As noted, the whole EV thing pretty much started with the Tesla Model S.
There are a few large EV saloons and I think there will be more. They sell well in the US if nothing else. As noted, the whole EV thing pretty much started with the Tesla Model S.
DMZ said:
What, no more estates? But they are superior in every way to SUVs… I think Porsche might have a thing or two to say about it anyhow. I don’t think Audi is about to give up on the fast estate either.
There are a few large EV saloons and I think there will be more. They sell well in the US if nothing else. As noted, the whole EV thing pretty much started with the Tesla Model S.
It's not a saloon car though. Saloon cars are called such because the trunk area is seperate from the main interior,as a saloon bar is seperate to the main accommodation of a hotel etc...There are a few large EV saloons and I think there will be more. They sell well in the US if nothing else. As noted, the whole EV thing pretty much started with the Tesla Model S.
It's a hatchback.
Lucid air is worth a try, completely different animal to the Tesla, fills all the gaps, proper luxury and straight line performance, i say that as a long term S class buyer, as soon as they’re in europe we’re having one, if Bentley dont beat them to it, its a shame the EQS styling concept never followed through, yet to see the EQS suv but i dislike SUVs immensely tbh, every suv i’ve driven or owned cant hide its high C of G and the tipping nature annoys the fek out of me.
We may actually see a little bit of a resurgence in the saloon car format as the BEV era dawns. The fact is that a saloon car is the most aerodynamic car format. And as we all know, aerodynamics are the biggest factor in BEV efficiency, and consequently battery size and range.
So don’t write off the saloon car yet. SUV’s may have become the most desirable solution for wasteful fat Americans, I mean Brits. But they’re literally as efficient as the tattooed lumbering fat-f
ks they all cart between endless drive-throughs, tat-emporiums, and ghastly new-build estates.
So don’t write off the saloon car yet. SUV’s may have become the most desirable solution for wasteful fat Americans, I mean Brits. But they’re literally as efficient as the tattooed lumbering fat-f
ks they all cart between endless drive-throughs, tat-emporiums, and ghastly new-build estates.survivalist said:
Not sure thats the reason people moved to SUVs and crossovers though. The main reasons were poor spatial awareness that can be (somewhat) mitigated by a higher driving position and the increasing number of overweight / obese / unfit folk who struggle to get into a vehicle that sits lower to the ground without sustaining some kind of injury.
Agree that the “skateboard” design of EV means that there’s less of a downside to SUV in the BEV world compared to ICE.
The problem with that aspect is the level of prejudices involved. Agree that the “skateboard” design of EV means that there’s less of a downside to SUV in the BEV world compared to ICE.
It's probably fair to say that at the barge end of the market the consumer is not typically being driven by frugalities but more by ostentations and once the Range Rover became embedded in the 80s as not just a symbol of normal wealth due to size but of lifestyle wealth as it intimated that one owned land or associated with people who did, the die was cast in that regard.
SUVs are also not just overt symbols of wealth at that level but what actually makes the weird folk angry about them is that the drivers seat overtly display the change in society that they despise. Sitting up on a pedestal for the world to see are the people they can only bare to tollerate if they feel superior to them, women, non whites, working class, youngsters. All overtly displaying more wealth than them and they don't like it.
You can't go out on a Saturday night and grope a woman, slag of Asians and then batter a bloke for wearing different clothes. You can't even badmouth women, blacks, Asians, Jews without someone telling you off.
The SUV is the near perfect automotive proxy, just like the whole eco tripe about EVs. They can slag off those they despise via the medium of a chattel
However, if you can bypass that and consider the large SUV v the large saloon objectively then the saloon really has nothing going for it by comparison. You simply wouldn't bother with a saloon unless you visually preferred the looks sufficiently to overcome the impracticalities.
The SUV is simply dominating the big car market not because everyone lives on a council estate and is obsessed with placing chattels outside their house that announce they are better humans than their neighbours but for the exact same reason that the hatchback wiped out pretty much every type of small car, practicality. Simply put, for the same footprint the product is more versatile, does more and requires less compromise.
I suspect that in EV guise we'll see a return of the minivan shape. Especially if we have a long recession and enough consumers desiring to be seen as less opulent. The minivan seems a more modest shape as well as more practical but you're not going to see the SUV go away any more than the hatchback and for the same reasons. They're both just better and smarter solutions.
Besides, the SUV is getting lower and lower and moving further and further away from the random offroad twaddle that has beset it because they all feel the need to compete against the Range Rover. The modern SUV today is more akin to a jacked up estate car.
granada203028 said:
Cars have generally got larger over the years. Why aren't there any small EVs?
Honda E say is still large compared to an original 1960s Mini.
Money. Why aren't there any premium small cars?Honda E say is still large compared to an original 1960s Mini.
EVs are still expensive to make so the economics work better for large and premium vehicles where the end consumer will pay the amounts needed. Get down to the smallest cars and the consumers at that level are not all that interested in paying £30k for something they can't refuel and doesn't go very far.
It's going to take more time yet until the cost of manufacturing comes down to meet the consumer firepower at that level of the market hence why at the moment it's just novelty acts like the Mini, 500 or Honda which appeal to the more affluent.
otolith said:
It's not true, anyway.
Smallest car you can buy in the UK, all electric
Second smallest, all electric
Third smallest, all electric
Fourth, available in electric
Fifth, petrol
Sixth, available in electric
Percent of sales for sector? Smallest car you can buy in the UK, all electric
Second smallest, all electric
Third smallest, all electric
Fourth, available in electric
Fifth, petrol
Sixth, available in electric
You can see some of those cars nipping around London and the Home Counties. They aren't being driven by the folks who comprise the core of the small car market.
It's why EVs make up a larger percentage of cars in larger, by size and value, segments.
otolith said:
Oh, they may not sell. But the question was "Why aren't there any small EVs?" - there are.
Yes. If you took that to be the explicit meaning. I didn't as I made the possible mistake of people knowing that things like the Smart EV, Honda and others existed and what they meant was why aren't there many more models and many more sales given that small cars are the highest volume sellers in the U.K. For that, the answer is clearly economics. Most people buy small cars because they have small budgets and a small EV requires a larger budget. DonkeyApple said:
Yes. If you took that to be the explicit meaning. I didn't as I made the possible mistake of people knowing that things like the Smart EV, Honda and others existed and what they meant was why aren't there many more models and many more sales given that small cars are the highest volume sellers in the U.K. For that, the answer is clearly economics. Most people buy small cars because they have small budgets and a small EV requires a larger budget.
Careful, car company marketing departments will commission a hit on you for saying things like that. People buy small cars because they are trendy young urban people with exciting lifestyles, not because they are poor! 
dvs_dave said:
We may actually see a little bit of a resurgence in the saloon car format as the BEV era dawns. The fact is that a saloon car is the most aerodynamic car format. And as we all know, aerodynamics are the biggest factor in BEV efficiency, and consequently battery size and range.
So don’t write off the saloon car yet. SUV’s may have become the most desirable solution for wasteful fat Americans, I mean Brits. But they’re literally as efficient as the tattooed lumbering fat-fks they all cart between endless drive-throughs, tat-emporiums, and ghastly new-build estates.
The most aerodynamically efficient design has a smooth taper between the roof and the boot lip. The EQXX is an obvious example of this and I’d say it resembles a hatchback more than a saloon. A saloon to me has a flat boot lid with a steeply raked rear screen. Maybe fastback would be the best way to describe it.So don’t write off the saloon car yet. SUV’s may have become the most desirable solution for wasteful fat Americans, I mean Brits. But they’re literally as efficient as the tattooed lumbering fat-f
ks they all cart between endless drive-throughs, tat-emporiums, and ghastly new-build estates.Edited by GT9 on Thursday 29th September 12:25
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