Tesla Y or...?
Discussion
I realise that the Y isn't the cheapest (to put it mildly, and muskrat does anny the bits off me!), but I was curious as to what alternatives there are?
As I see it the Y is not only one of the better EVs for range it also advises (supercharger) charging networks and, crucially, the amount of vacant chargers in real-time adjusting satnav as necessary (do other EVs offer this functionality?) It's also got one of the larger load-capacities of most reasonably sized cars (not that that is vital, it's just nice to have).
In terms of drivability I quite enjoyed my test of the Y (allowing for the fact that it is a 'white good') and the minimalist interior is liveable so then it becomes a matter of living with whatever shortcomings there are...
As I see it the Y is not only one of the better EVs for range it also advises (supercharger) charging networks and, crucially, the amount of vacant chargers in real-time adjusting satnav as necessary (do other EVs offer this functionality?) It's also got one of the larger load-capacities of most reasonably sized cars (not that that is vital, it's just nice to have).
In terms of drivability I quite enjoyed my test of the Y (allowing for the fact that it is a 'white good') and the minimalist interior is liveable so then it becomes a matter of living with whatever shortcomings there are...
Seems like you have answered your own question, its basically a jacked up Model 3, good car, nothing special but that covers most EV's, it does a job and fits a segment with its range making it more relevant to those at that price point, we decided it was a bit bland and clumsy so have ordered a 77Kwh Cupra Born but we don't use external charging networks.
N88 said:
When you say it’s not the cheapest, what else do you have in mind?
Genuine question as I’m in the market for a premium electric SUV with good performance and the current Long Range deals look pretty good to me compared to the likes of the ix3, ipace, etron etc.
If you're basing the comparison purely on numbers I would agree. If build quality, materials, refinement and comfort are considerations then it's not so clear cut.Genuine question as I’m in the market for a premium electric SUV with good performance and the current Long Range deals look pretty good to me compared to the likes of the ix3, ipace, etron etc.
That comes from spending 2 years and 20k miles in a Model 3 followed by 1 year and 10k miles in an etron BTW.
Mr E said:
My list had an EV6 and the related Hyundai on it.
Went tesla for the supercharging network. I suspect it won’t be as big a deal in 12-18 months.
The supercharging network can be handy but is far from the be all and end all of public charging IME. Once busy charge speeds can be a bit naff, the charge curve is far from great to start with and just how often are most people leaving home needing to cover more than 250-300 miles in a day without an overnight stop?Went tesla for the supercharging network. I suspect it won’t be as big a deal in 12-18 months.
It’s a question we are pondering. Testing MY LR then Ev6 and iX in that order this weekend. Do the lakes once a month due to family and the charging has been an issue for us with previous EV’s. Ecotricity is a shocker.
I figure the build and general lack of refinement will be the no on the MY. Shame as they have so much other stuff right.
I figure the build and general lack of refinement will be the no on the MY. Shame as they have so much other stuff right.
SWoll said:
The supercharging network can be handy but is far from the be all and end all of public charging IME. Once busy charge speeds can be a bit naff, the charge curve is far from great to start with and just how often are most people leaving home needing to cover more than 250-300 miles in a day without an overnight stop?
This is the thing though - home to daughter round trip is 400 miles. Whilst we stay at hers there is nowhere convenient to charge which means public chargers and we do (occasionally) do this in one day. I've come round to the idea of a 'white good' family car but range anxiety is a very real thing - obviously I can use the challenger, but that can be a little antisocial at the other end...First World problems I know but if we're going to go down this road I'd like it to be the correct choice from the start and the convenience factor does play into this (& it appears the Y, and 3, have this sorted with the whole "numbers at the pump" thing going on)
DodgyGeezer said:
I've come round to the idea of a 'white good' family car but range anxiety is a very real thing - obviously I can use the challenger, but that can be a little antisocial at the other end...
Turning up at anyones house in a tank is going to cause some consternation!Edited by Mark V GTD on Thursday 13th October 13:00
As the owner of a M3P for nearly 3 years, one thing I would say that unlike Apple where you pay a premium price for an alternative - but still premium - ecosystem, with Tesla you just pay a premium price for the name, the slightly better battery/motor efficiency, and the supercharger network.
Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
For what it's worth I sat in an EV6 recently and it was night and day in terms of refinement inside, compared to my 3. I love the minimalist interior on my car, but what is there does not feel premium, at all.
Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
For what it's worth I sat in an EV6 recently and it was night and day in terms of refinement inside, compared to my 3. I love the minimalist interior on my car, but what is there does not feel premium, at all.
Durzel said:
As the owner of a M3P for nearly 3 years, one thing I would say that unlike Apple where you pay a premium price for an alternative - but still premium - ecosystem, with Tesla you just pay a premium price for the name, the slightly better battery/motor efficiency, and the supercharger network.
Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
cheers - that made an interesting read Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
Durzel said:
Sensible stuff
Completely agree. Back in 2019 Tesla were really the only show in town with the Model 3, the supercharging network was very lightly utilized and there was plenty to commend them as a product. By the time ours went back in late 2021 things wwre already starting to look very different and I can only imagine based on the number of them I now see on the roads in 2022 that even the supercharging network is less of a draw than it used to be as must be incredibly busy at the more popular location before consdering the fact that they wil likely open up to all EV's at some point next year.Enjoyed the 2 years with ours but feel no compulsion to get another.
ETA - As you mention, this says it all really. Is a camera really going to do as good a job in parking scenarios as an ultrasonic?
MSN said:
Tesla says the shift away from ultrasonic sensors will not affect cars’ crash safety ratings. However, cars shipping without the sensors will “temporarily” lose access to some features, including Park Assist, Autopark, Summon, and Smart Summon. The company intends to restore these features once they perform equally well using its camera-based system.
Edited by SWoll on Thursday 13th October 10:52
page3 said:
If I was in the market for a Y I probably wouldn't because there are loads of alternatives.
As I was in the market for a 3 I ended up with a 3 because there are still a very limited number of alternatives.
If you are talking about only wanting a saloon, then 100%. As I was in the market for a 3 I ended up with a 3 because there are still a very limited number of alternatives.
Personally I'd see cars like the Polestar 2, EV6, Ioniq5, i4 as Model 3 alternatives and the iX3, Q4 and XC40 for the Model Y.
Durzel said:
As the owner of a M3P for nearly 3 years, one thing I would say that unlike Apple where you pay a premium price for an alternative - but still premium - ecosystem, with Tesla you just pay a premium price for the name, the slightly better battery/motor efficiency, and the supercharger network.
Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
For what it's worth I sat in an EV6 recently and it was night and day in terms of refinement inside, compared to my 3. I love the minimalist interior on my car, but what is there does not feel premium, at all.
Some good points here, but Tesla quality (look and feel and build accuracy) has improved massively in the past 3 years and the performance / range trade-off on a model Y is significantly better than EV6. Also the Model Y is a much more practical car if luggage space is a priority. My wife has just taken delivery of a new Y and it is an impressive vehicle - performance, software, charging, efficiency, practicality. We considered EV6, but it was not dog friendly - high boot floor.Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
For what it's worth I sat in an EV6 recently and it was night and day in terms of refinement inside, compared to my 3. I love the minimalist interior on my car, but what is there does not feel premium, at all.
SWoll said:
Durzel said:
Sensible stuff
Completely agree. Back in 2019 Tesla were really the only show in town with the Model 3, the supercharging network was very lightly utilized and there was plenty to commend them as a product. By the time ours went back in late 2021 things wwre already starting to look very different and I can only imagine based on the number of them I now see on the roads in 2022 that even the supercharging network is less of a draw than it used to be as must be incredibly busy at the more popular location before consdering the fact that they wil likely open up to all EV's at some point next year.Enjoyed the 2 years with ours but feel no compulsion to get another.
ETA - As you mention, this says it all really. Is a camera really going to do as good a job in parking scenarios as an ultrasonic?
MSN said:
Tesla says the shift away from ultrasonic sensors will not affect cars’ crash safety ratings. However, cars shipping without the sensors will “temporarily” lose access to some features, including Park Assist, Autopark, Summon, and Smart Summon. The company intends to restore these features once they perform equally well using its camera-based system.
Most people I've seen accept that this is a ridiculous state of affairs, but there is a contingent - as always - who are prepared to die on the hill for a ~$680m company who are making very healthy margins on each car. Even though its customers who always suffer from these decisions, it's all "trust the vision!", "they wouldn't do it if they didn't have a plan", etc. It's very strange.
This guy did a deep dive into it, and basically came to the conclusion that it saves Tesla ~$114 per car. The video spends a lot of time going over the financials (which won't be reflected in any price drop that's for sure) before getting on to the fact that the camera positioning means there's basically a 1ft x 3ft blind spot in front of the car that the front cameras simply won't see. Apparently there will be object permanance so when you pull up to something the car will "remember" everything that was there. I have next to no confidence that this will actually work properly, for a myriad of reasons.
I'll be looking to change mine around March next year. It'll be 3 years old at that point, with a year left of warranty. I can't see any reason at the moment to buy another one. By all accounts Tesla are just removing or downgrading more and more things on it, possibly as some sort of game, to see what the threshold is before they actually start feeling the pinch in sales figures. I can imagine there are a lot of first time Tesla owners who are shocked at just how poor or missing the basic stuff is. Even Autopilot isn't that revolutionary 2.5 years on.
c2mike said:
Some good points here, but Tesla quality (look and feel and build accuracy) has improved massively in the past 3 years and the performance / range trade-off on a model Y is significantly better than EV6. Also the Model Y is a much more practical car if luggage space is a priority. My wife has just taken delivery of a new Y and it is an impressive vehicle - performance, software, charging, efficiency, practicality. We considered EV6, but it was not dog friendly - high boot floor.
I'd have to agree to disagree on that one. It's true that the Shanghai factory has done away with the basic fit and finish issues (the American cars really were all over the place in that respect), but various materials have been downgraded from soft plastics to hard ones, the USB ports no longer do data, passenger lumbar support deleted, etc. Q4 delivered cars won't even have parking sensors until Tesla come up with something that will probably work nowhere near as consistently or reliably. Tesla are all about value engineering now, it seems.There are aspects to the car I love - mobile service, no hard sell on servicing/maintenance, etc. They are not worth how much they cost, though, not when you look at the competition. The battery efficiency/range is better for sure, but that is more or less a problem depending on your own usage.
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