Tesla Y or...?
Discussion
Hans_Gruber said:
JD said:
greggy50 said:
The only plus points are the range and charging network but half the network is unlocked now
Is that true?Also expect Elon to pull out of this when it no longer suits Tesla, for obvious reasons.
Mainstream rivals are quickly catching up or overtaking Tesla now they are actually investing properly into EVs. In a few years I can see Tesla struggling especially with Elon continuing to overpromise and under deliver. The Roadster never appears to be arriving, the Cybertruck I can't see passing legislation and the Model 3 is due a good refresh in the next 1-2 years to keep it competitive (in my opinion).
My apologies on the charger comment, I assumed it was a greater % as when I drove to London a few weeks ago I found a supercharger en-route quite easily. I ended up using Instavolt on the way home, however.
greggy50 said:
Hans_Gruber said:
JD said:
greggy50 said:
The only plus points are the range and charging network but half the network is unlocked now
Is that true?Also expect Elon to pull out of this when it no longer suits Tesla, for obvious reasons.
Mainstream rivals are quickly catching up or overtaking Tesla now they are actually investing properly into EVs. In a few years I can see Tesla struggling especially with Elon continuing to overpromise and under deliver. The Roadster never appears to be arriving, the Cybertruck I can't see passing legislation and the Model 3 is due a good refresh in the next 1-2 years to keep it competitive (in my opinion).
My apologies on the charger comment, I assumed it was a greater % as when I drove to London a few weeks ago I found a supercharger en-route quite easily. I ended up using Instavolt on the way home, however.
tter went down.It suits Tesla for greater EV take up by other manufacturers as by default it promotes their product. That is until the point where either other manufacturers are exposed because they don’t have their own charging infrastructure to service their own vehicles or because it harms Tesla. As to the government forcing a company to provide a service to a competitor that they have paid for is highly unlikely. There are plenty of data companies that have recently set up around the M25 that draw 1000 times the power of a supercharger station that I can assure you will not be giving away their energy use to a competitor.
Hans_Gruber said:
greggy50 said:
Hans_Gruber said:
JD said:
greggy50 said:
The only plus points are the range and charging network but half the network is unlocked now
Is that true?Also expect Elon to pull out of this when it no longer suits Tesla, for obvious reasons.
Mainstream rivals are quickly catching up or overtaking Tesla now they are actually investing properly into EVs. In a few years I can see Tesla struggling especially with Elon continuing to overpromise and under deliver. The Roadster never appears to be arriving, the Cybertruck I can't see passing legislation and the Model 3 is due a good refresh in the next 1-2 years to keep it competitive (in my opinion).
My apologies on the charger comment, I assumed it was a greater % as when I drove to London a few weeks ago I found a supercharger en-route quite easily. I ended up using Instavolt on the way home, however.
tter went down.It suits Tesla for greater EV take up by other manufacturers as by default it promotes their product. That is until the point where either other manufacturers are exposed because they don’t have their own charging infrastructure to service their own vehicles or because it harms Tesla. As to the government forcing a company to provide a service to a competitor that they have paid for is highly unlikely. There are plenty of data companies that have recently set up around the M25 that draw 1000 times the power of a supercharger station that I can assure you will not be giving away their energy use to a competitor.
I can't see other OEMs needing to provide their own charging structure given the pace of the roll-out in the UK, even in the last 2 years the situation has improved a lot (I remember when you couldn't even pay contactless on most of them...) Within the next 2-3 years I can't see the superchargers being a massive selling point to be honest.
Personally, I am a bit anti-Tesla however as I don't like the product having ran one for 6 months and I don't particularly like the owner of the company either, so I am rather bias!
greggy50 said:
Personally, I am a bit anti-Tesla however as I don't like the product having ran one for 6 months and I don't particularly like the owner of the company either, so I am rather bias!
A friend said much the same the other day... I didn't really understand it as I have no problems (or interest) with the CEO of Unilever, Land Rover, Lurpak, Andrex loo paper, Morgan or any of the many other products I might own.Looking at the fast charger distribution on Zapp Map, it's better than I imagined. With plenty of 50 and 150 kW chargers it's surely getting closer to the ideal where you can just rock up to any station and just fill up. Sure there are far fewer pumps than petrol pumps at a station and it will take 20 minutes instead of 5 to fill up, but then again many (?most) people will be doing most of their charging at home so the demand will be less.
I'm not so sure it's an insurmountable problem.
I'm not so sure it's an insurmountable problem.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th October 08:52
NDA said:
greggy50 said:
Personally, I am a bit anti-Tesla however as I don't like the product having ran one for 6 months and I don't particularly like the owner of the company either, so I am rather bias!
A friend said much the same the other day... I didn't really understand it as I have no problems (or interest) with the CEO of Unilever, Land Rover, Lurpak, Andrex loo paper, Morgan or any of the many other products I might own.soupdragon1 said:
Its easy to understand really. Those CEO's are low profile. Tesla CEO isn't. As a result, with such a raised profile, some people simply don't like him.
I get that - but it has very little impact on the product, at least in my unimportant view! I have no interest in Twitter or whatever is said on it.Tesla's fortune, and course, is more inextricably linked to its CEO - for good or for bad - than any other product in history in my opinion, moreso than Apple under Steve Jobs.
Consequently when you have someone who is as divisive as Musk is I think it's natural to assess ones feelings about the products as well. I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a pang of embarassment driving mine whenever he has said something extremely dumb.
Consequently when you have someone who is as divisive as Musk is I think it's natural to assess ones feelings about the products as well. I would be lying if I said I didn't feel a pang of embarassment driving mine whenever he has said something extremely dumb.
soupdragon1 said:
NDA said:
greggy50 said:
Personally, I am a bit anti-Tesla however as I don't like the product having ran one for 6 months and I don't particularly like the owner of the company either, so I am rather bias!
A friend said much the same the other day... I didn't really understand it as I have no problems (or interest) with the CEO of Unilever, Land Rover, Lurpak, Andrex loo paper, Morgan or any of the many other products I might own.soupdragon1 said:
lizardbrain said:
Can’t say I’ve ever had any association between feelings for the car vs the man.
Same with music etc. most people with such laser focus are assholes
Username checks out...Same with music etc. most people with such laser focus are assholes
Musk's antics, for me, are borderline in terms of making me not want to buy another Tesla. I accept, however, that I'm a hypocrite because I buy Apple products even though the factories they use pay a pittance and have to install anti-suicide netting, etc.
It's just a lot easier to associate Tesla with Musk. On a more minor scale the reason the cars don't support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are - I believe - more to do with Musk's attitude towards those companies, in particular Apple who apparently spurned him when he was potentially looking to sell Tesla, and seems to hold a grudge as a result. This consequently means Tesla owners have to suffer too (suffer in very relative terms of course).
Durzel said:
That's a bit harsh I think.. people differ on how they consider the throughline from purchasing a product to enabling the CEO.
Musk's antics, for me, are borderline in terms of making me not want to buy another Tesla. I accept, however, that I'm a hypocrite because I buy Apple products even though the factories they use pay a pittance and have to install anti-suicide netting, etc.
It's just a lot easier to associate Tesla with Musk. On a more minor scale the reason the cars don't support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are - I believe - more to do with Musk's attitude towards those companies, in particular Apple who apparently spurned him when he was potentially looking to sell Tesla, and seems to hold a grudge as a result. This consequently means Tesla owners have to suffer too (suffer in very relative terms of course).
I’m assuming your pangs of embarrassment are more often triggered by political or social commentary, rather than tweets about software?Musk's antics, for me, are borderline in terms of making me not want to buy another Tesla. I accept, however, that I'm a hypocrite because I buy Apple products even though the factories they use pay a pittance and have to install anti-suicide netting, etc.
It's just a lot easier to associate Tesla with Musk. On a more minor scale the reason the cars don't support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are - I believe - more to do with Musk's attitude towards those companies, in particular Apple who apparently spurned him when he was potentially looking to sell Tesla, and seems to hold a grudge as a result. This consequently means Tesla owners have to suffer too (suffer in very relative terms of course).
Personally i enjoy both hacking on a pc, and also find lots of value in closed Apple ecosystem. I own both EV and ICE. Etc etc
If Tim Cook started tweeting idiotic statements about Ukraine. Then I wouldn’t feel any differently about my iPads.
lizardbrain said:
Durzel said:
That's a bit harsh I think.. people differ on how they consider the throughline from purchasing a product to enabling the CEO.
Musk's antics, for me, are borderline in terms of making me not want to buy another Tesla. I accept, however, that I'm a hypocrite because I buy Apple products even though the factories they use pay a pittance and have to install anti-suicide netting, etc.
It's just a lot easier to associate Tesla with Musk. On a more minor scale the reason the cars don't support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are - I believe - more to do with Musk's attitude towards those companies, in particular Apple who apparently spurned him when he was potentially looking to sell Tesla, and seems to hold a grudge as a result. This consequently means Tesla owners have to suffer too (suffer in very relative terms of course).
I’m assuming your pangs of embarrassment are more often triggered by political or social commentary, rather than tweets about software?Musk's antics, for me, are borderline in terms of making me not want to buy another Tesla. I accept, however, that I'm a hypocrite because I buy Apple products even though the factories they use pay a pittance and have to install anti-suicide netting, etc.
It's just a lot easier to associate Tesla with Musk. On a more minor scale the reason the cars don't support Apple CarPlay or Android Auto are - I believe - more to do with Musk's attitude towards those companies, in particular Apple who apparently spurned him when he was potentially looking to sell Tesla, and seems to hold a grudge as a result. This consequently means Tesla owners have to suffer too (suffer in very relative terms of course).
lizardbrain said:
Personally i enjoy both hacking on a pc, and also find lots of value in closed Apple ecosystem. I own both EV and ICE. Etc etc
If Tim Cook started tweeting idiotic statements about Ukraine. Then I wouldn’t feel any differently about my iPads.
Well, Apple isn't as intrinsically linked to Tim Cook as Tesla is to Elon. TIm Cook steers the ship and makes decisions that maximise profits for Apple, but the products feel more "Apple" than "Tim Cook". It's hard to articulate clearly. There is no real separation between Tesla and Musk.If Tim Cook started tweeting idiotic statements about Ukraine. Then I wouldn’t feel any differently about my iPads.
greggy50 said:
Register1 said:
Durzel said:
As the owner of a M3P for nearly 3 years, one thing I would say that unlike Apple where you pay a premium price for an alternative - but still premium - ecosystem, with Tesla you just pay a premium price for the name, the slightly better battery/motor efficiency, and the supercharger network.
Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
For what it's worth I sat in an EV6 recently and it was night and day in terms of refinement inside, compared to my 3. I love the minimalist interior on my car, but what is there does not feel premium, at all.
My wife ordered a new M3 SR in June, due to be delivered between December 7 and December 23.Anything you might have taken for granted as coming with a £52k+ car likely isn't there. All of the competitors will have a more premium feel, fit and finish and have loads of toys and driver convenience features that won't exist on the Y.
At this point if I were in your shoes I'd consider how much public supercharging I would anticipate needing to do. Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive. Other manufacturers are making battery/motor efficiency improvements all of the time, the landscape has changed considerably even just in the last couple of years.
As things stand currently I wouldn't buy another Tesla. There's just too much missing, broken, or being taken away (ultrasonics are the latest thing to go), for what you pay. UK cars have had "matrix" hardware headlights for pretty much 2 years, and Tesla have done nothing with them at all. They don't care, and they don't need to care, which ought to concern any individual customer looking for the best bang for buck.
For what it's worth I sat in an EV6 recently and it was night and day in terms of refinement inside, compared to my 3. I love the minimalist interior on my car, but what is there does not feel premium, at all.
Paying cash for it, out of savings.
We have both tested a few of the opposition, back in June, but now we thought the M3 was the best at the time.
However the new MG4 has come out, and to be fair, at £28k versus £50k for the M3, I do have my reserevations.
What to do ?
£50k is a lot of our cash to spend on a Tesla
MG4 is the best value EV ever made imo for sub £30k as a daily car it seems to cover everything.
If your wife isnt massively into cars/doesnt do big motorway miles I would keep the cash personally.
Not sat in a MG4 but I would suspect the interior materials are just as nice as a Teslas...
Her is by no way a badge snob.
Her bought a beautiful Touareg instead of a Q7, simply because they are almost identical cars, but the Q7 is a lot more money,
So having a MG4 instead of a M3 Tesla RWD (SR) wouldn't really bother her.
Her has garage parking at night, with good supply of electric for charging, (non of this 13 amp granny charging) and does 50 miles a day, for 4 days a working week.
So really, range is more than adequate, at about 200 miles a week, is just a full charge over the Sunday night ready for the week.
The MG4 looks is in the eye of the beholder, to me it looks quite good.
The Tesla M3 looks quite good,
But with a £20,000 saving, the MG4 really is tempting.
I'm seriously thinking of chopping in my M3P for an MG4 or something, as a stop gap, until Tesla actually deliver on some promises.
I've only done 4k miles in mine since getting it in March 2020, so it's just sat there depreciating, and has fallen behind in terms of stuff that is now supplied (e.g. heated steering wheel, heatpump, etc). I might as well get something that ought to barely depreciate instead.
For the money I don't think you can go wrong really. I also don't think the materials will be any worse than the Tesla, and may actually be better. You'd also have the added bonus of the basic stuff (auto headlights, wipers, etc) actually working properly, and I'm sure the headlights are decent too.
Bargain of the century in EV terms I think.
I've only done 4k miles in mine since getting it in March 2020, so it's just sat there depreciating, and has fallen behind in terms of stuff that is now supplied (e.g. heated steering wheel, heatpump, etc). I might as well get something that ought to barely depreciate instead.
For the money I don't think you can go wrong really. I also don't think the materials will be any worse than the Tesla, and may actually be better. You'd also have the added bonus of the basic stuff (auto headlights, wipers, etc) actually working properly, and I'm sure the headlights are decent too.
Bargain of the century in EV terms I think.
lizardbrain said:
What promises are you waiting for?
what was the reason for choosing the MP3 and what's changed?
Has depreciation been a big issue so far?
To be fair when I got my M3P my circumstances were a lot different to what they are now. Pre-COVID I was doing at least 800 miles a month commuting and spending a lot on petrol, whereas now I might do 100. My car was delivered at the height of the first lockdown.what was the reason for choosing the MP3 and what's changed?
Has depreciation been a big issue so far?
Reason for choosing it was the belief that it was the most advanced self driving car available, and it was breaking the mould as far as OTA updates, etc goes. I also wanted a ballistically fast car again after having sold a similarly quick one a while before.
Pretty much nothing has changed with the car in terms of autonomous features in the time I've owned it. Tesla will blame UNECE rules for this, but ultimately I just don't think they care about Europe beyond selling cars. Basic stuff doesn't work properly - the auto headlights are the worst I've experienced on a car in the last 10 years, and the lights themselves are super dumb with no intelligence whatsoever. Auto wipers is marginally better, but not something I would say is completely reliable - and it should be, it's a solved problem. It has a certain Emperor's New Clothes feel about it, like you're paying for the brand name, battery tech and efficiency - but everything else you're just expected to accept.
I could see myself opting out of Tesla for 2-3 years until a genuinely facelifted Model 3 comes along, with the autonomous stuff unlocked (I won't make the same mistake of buying FSD up front again).
Depreciation was impressive until very recently, where it's settled back to a predictable level.
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