Tesla Y or...?
Discussion
Durzel said:
It's not, but that's not stopping Tesla from pressing ahead regardless. The fact that a bunch of previously advertised features are going to be disabled on new cars for an indeterminate amount of time should tell you everything.
Most people I've seen accept that this is a ridiculous state of affairs, but there is a contingent - as always - who are prepared to die on the hill for a ~$680m company who are making very healthy margins on each car. Even though its customers who always suffer from these decisions, it's all "trust the vision!", "they wouldn't do it if they didn't have a plan", etc. It's very strange.
This guy did a deep dive into it, and basically came to the conclusion that it saves Tesla ~$114 per car. The video spends a lot of time going over the financials (which won't be reflected in any price drop that's for sure) before getting on to the fact that the camera positioning means there's basically a 1ft x 3ft blind spot in front of the car that the front cameras simply won't see. Apparently there will be object permanance so when you pull up to something the car will "remember" everything that was there. I have next to no confidence that this will actually work properly, for a myriad of reasons.
I'll be looking to change mine around March next year. It'll be 3 years old at that point, with a year left of warranty. I can't see any reason at the moment to buy another one. By all accounts Tesla are just removing or downgrading more and more things on it, possibly as some sort of game, to see what the threshold is before they actually start feeling the pinch in sales figures. I can imagine there are a lot of first time Tesla owners who are shocked at just how poor or missing the basic stuff is. Even Autopilot isn't that revolutionary 2.5 years on.
interestingly I have been watching RSYMONS YouTube channel specifically WRT the Y (though also the 3) and the take on there is that the 'self park' function on the Teslas is, well, crap (my take on the test). I'm an old(ish) fart and as long as there are cameras front and rear I'll use them to park rather than trust the car, obviously that mindset will likely change as things get better but for now....Most people I've seen accept that this is a ridiculous state of affairs, but there is a contingent - as always - who are prepared to die on the hill for a ~$680m company who are making very healthy margins on each car. Even though its customers who always suffer from these decisions, it's all "trust the vision!", "they wouldn't do it if they didn't have a plan", etc. It's very strange.
This guy did a deep dive into it, and basically came to the conclusion that it saves Tesla ~$114 per car. The video spends a lot of time going over the financials (which won't be reflected in any price drop that's for sure) before getting on to the fact that the camera positioning means there's basically a 1ft x 3ft blind spot in front of the car that the front cameras simply won't see. Apparently there will be object permanance so when you pull up to something the car will "remember" everything that was there. I have next to no confidence that this will actually work properly, for a myriad of reasons.
I'll be looking to change mine around March next year. It'll be 3 years old at that point, with a year left of warranty. I can't see any reason at the moment to buy another one. By all accounts Tesla are just removing or downgrading more and more things on it, possibly as some sort of game, to see what the threshold is before they actually start feeling the pinch in sales figures. I can imagine there are a lot of first time Tesla owners who are shocked at just how poor or missing the basic stuff is. Even Autopilot isn't that revolutionary 2.5 years on.
Durzel said:
Apparently there will be object permanance so when you pull up to something the car will "remember" everything that was there. I have next to no confidence that this will actually work properly, for a myriad of reasons.
So you'll be fine as long as long as nothing has changed since the last time you parked there? Brilliant.
DodgyGeezer said:
interestingly I have been watching RSYMONS YouTube channel specifically WRT the Y (though also the 3) and the take on there is that the 'self park' function on the Teslas is, well, crap (my take on the test). I'm an old(ish) fart and as long as there are cameras front and rear I'll use them to park rather than trust the car, obviously that mindset will likely change as things get better but for now....
Always found auto park to be a "use it once for a laugh and never again" gimmick on any car we've had it fitted on.Sensors all round and a rear view camera work really well. I do like the top down view some cars offer but again found it a bit gimmicky in practice.
I also struggled to trust the Tesla auto cruise/autopilot after a few ghost braking incidents at high speed and the camera based windscreen wipers were always naff.
Edited by SWoll on Thursday 13th October 11:50
Durzel said:
c2mike said:
Some good points here, but Tesla quality (look and feel and build accuracy) has improved massively in the past 3 years and the performance / range trade-off on a model Y is significantly better than EV6. Also the Model Y is a much more practical car if luggage space is a priority. My wife has just taken delivery of a new Y and it is an impressive vehicle - performance, software, charging, efficiency, practicality. We considered EV6, but it was not dog friendly - high boot floor.
I'd have to agree to disagree on that one. It's true that the Shanghai factory has done away with the basic fit and finish issues (the American cars really were all over the place in that respect), but various materials have been downgraded from soft plastics to hard ones, the USB ports no longer do data, passenger lumbar support deleted, etc. Q4 delivered cars won't even have parking sensors until Tesla come up with something that will probably work nowhere near as consistently or reliably. Tesla are all about value engineering now, it seems.There are aspects to the car I love - mobile service, no hard sell on servicing/maintenance, etc. They are not worth how much they cost, though, not when you look at the competition. The battery efficiency/range is better for sure, but that is more or less a problem depending on your own usage.
Durzel said:
Energy prices are only going one way (business rates are uncapped) so supercharging - or indeed public charging generally - is getting expensive.
.
Whilst business energy prices aren't capped, I think your post needs to be added to. There is support in terms of the Energy Bill Relief Scheme:.
https://bionic.co.uk/business-energy/guides/price-...
Edited by MaxFromage on Thursday 13th October 12:35
Very interesting points raised... I have an order in for an MY but I would be interested to hear what folk perceive as the direct competitor for this car?
I didn't really look at anything else although I have owned an id.3 but would not consider any VW BEV product again until they sort out their software and improve the Fisher Price internals.
I didn't really look at anything else although I have owned an id.3 but would not consider any VW BEV product again until they sort out their software and improve the Fisher Price internals.
Mark V GTD said:
Very interesting points raised... I have an order in for an MY but I would be interested to hear what folk perceive as the direct competitor for this car?
I didn't really look at anything else although I have owned an id.3 but would not consider any VW BEV product again until they sort out their software and improve the Fisher Price internals.
And this is where I'm at as the OP - I want more luggage room than I *need*; good range (real world 190ish isn't worth spit imo); I want comfort (and the Y was comfortable enough); needs to be 'nippy'; memory seats; heated seats; parking cams; 'light'/airy interior; it should 'just work'. Nice = apple/android auto; cooled seats; adaptive cruise (NOT lane assist!!)... probably a few other bits n bobsI didn't really look at anything else although I have owned an id.3 but would not consider any VW BEV product again until they sort out their software and improve the Fisher Price internals.
DodgyGeezer said:
Mark V GTD said:
Very interesting points raised... I have an order in for an MY but I would be interested to hear what folk perceive as the direct competitor for this car?
I didn't really look at anything else although I have owned an id.3 but would not consider any VW BEV product again until they sort out their software and improve the Fisher Price internals.
And this is where I'm at as the OP - I want more luggage room than I *need*; good range (real world 190ish isn't worth spit imo); I want comfort (and the Y was comfortable enough); needs to be 'nippy'; memory seats; heated seats; parking cams; 'light'/airy interior; it should 'just work'. Nice = apple/android auto; cooled seats; adaptive cruise (NOT lane assist!!)... probably a few other bits n bobsI didn't really look at anything else although I have owned an id.3 but would not consider any VW BEV product again until they sort out their software and improve the Fisher Price internals.
I want something with the space of the Model Y but don't do many big journeys. The ix3 is top of the list for me, much better than expected. Ioniq 5 was impressive but dull to drive in comparison. Then you have the EV6 and the upcoming ix1. I sat in a regular new x1 and it has a great interior, think the electric version will be a real winner for them but the boot is marginally too small for me.
Having sat in most (not driven), the Ioniq 5 and EV6 were streets ahead for me. Backed up with long warranties and good reliability reports. I'll likely move in this direction in due course.
For space, although it impacts upon range, consider how many journeys you need that space for and perhaps think about a roof box if it's only one or two per year. Although the space in both of the Koreans I'd expect to be ample for the majority!
For space, although it impacts upon range, consider how many journeys you need that space for and perhaps think about a roof box if it's only one or two per year. Although the space in both of the Koreans I'd expect to be ample for the majority!
c2mike said:
Durzel said:
c2mike said:
Some good points here, but Tesla quality (look and feel and build accuracy) has improved massively in the past 3 years and the performance / range trade-off on a model Y is significantly better than EV6. Also the Model Y is a much more practical car if luggage space is a priority. My wife has just taken delivery of a new Y and it is an impressive vehicle - performance, software, charging, efficiency, practicality. We considered EV6, but it was not dog friendly - high boot floor.
I'd have to agree to disagree on that one. It's true that the Shanghai factory has done away with the basic fit and finish issues (the American cars really were all over the place in that respect), but various materials have been downgraded from soft plastics to hard ones, the USB ports no longer do data, passenger lumbar support deleted, etc. Q4 delivered cars won't even have parking sensors until Tesla come up with something that will probably work nowhere near as consistently or reliably. Tesla are all about value engineering now, it seems.There are aspects to the car I love - mobile service, no hard sell on servicing/maintenance, etc. They are not worth how much they cost, though, not when you look at the competition. The battery efficiency/range is better for sure, but that is more or less a problem depending on your own usage.
Your fabled Y comes with matrix headlights that do nothing intelligent at all. The 3 has had the same headlights fitted since the start of last year, if not earlier, and Tesla have done nothing with them in that time. They have only recently been made legal in the States, but they have been legal in Europe for years. Unintelligent headlights in a £50k car built in 2022, coming from the tech company's car? It's embarrassing.
You can buy into the whole single stack vision if you like, but back in the real world the removal of radar, rain sensors and now ultrasonics have not resulted in a better car. Why are owners the beta testers for this stuff? Tesla should not be removing equipment that works and then telling owners they will have to do without Park Assist, etc for however many months until they roll out a passable alternative? Tesla have not demonstrated any capability in any of the things they've removed tried-and-tested sensors for to justify the confidence you and others seem to have in them. How many more years do we need to wait before auto headlights don't turn off at road sign reflections, don't stay on in areas of decent ambient street lighting, or blind oncoming drivers for 1-2 seconds longer than they should, or not even see distant rear lights? How many more years will it be before auto wipers don't dry wipe the screen if there's some dirt or bug splatter on the front camera?
I will concede that Tesla have improved some of the things in the car, such as the Ryzen MCU, heat pump, etc. It does not make up for the loss or degraded functionality that their One True Vision of camera-based everything is supposed to deliver, because that stuff simply doesn't work effectively. Maybe it will in however many years, but I'm not paying full price for the next car to be a beta tester for it.
Sorry if the above sounds confrontational, it's just I'm very jaded about this stuff at this point and I have no confidence that Tesla will deliver in a practical timeframe. I'd sooner buy an actual car that functions properly in the things that matter, and come back to Tesla at some point in the future.
Edited by Durzel on Thursday 13th October 16:00
I sometimes wonder if I should have ordered an Ioniq 5 instead of my Model 3 LR (Company Car) but given the choice today I would still go with a Tesla (albeit the more practical Y over the 3, which wasn't available at the time).
Rhetoric is that the "only" advantage is the public charging network, which will "soon be a free-for-all". The problem with this is that it is not the only advantage Tesla has over the market, in my opinion.
The mobile app has far more functions than any other that I have seen.
The continuous rolling-out of new features / software updates / bug fixes is something the rest of the industry still hasn't caught up on - my Model 3 and how I interact with it (ie primarily via the screen) is very different today than when it was first delivered. This not only keeps the car more interesting to 'own' but also improves functionality etc.
The efficiency is pretty mad. I drive like an absolute bell end most of the time, exploiting the 20-70 sprint at full throttle at every opportunity. Yet the long-term efficiency is currently telling me I'm doing a long-term average of 253Wh/mi which equates to around 4 miles per kW. On a long, congested M25 morning commute this is often knocking on 5 miles per kW. Numbers virtually un-heard of outside of tiny EV's like the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe. It's crazy efficient - whether it's using your electricity at home or public charging network (or Tesla Supercharger) - this is what is key to running costs.
Build quality in my '22 plate isn't questionable at all. No rattles, no mis-fitting trim, no mis-aligned panels, none of the above. I've had VW's in the past and I certainly don't feel the Tesla is lacking in this department - certainly if you came from a high-end Mercedes it's not on-par, but those claiming it's sub-par and drive anything from Ford or the Korean manufacturers are kidding themselves (or more likely, doing it for the internet clout).
On top of all of this Tesla still has the most discrete / understated styling and the best charge port door location, something I can't quite get my head around how all other manufacturers are getting it so wrong!
If you can live with the minimalist interior and doing everything through a touch-screen (like we're not all glued to our smartphones anyway) then I still think the Tesla is leading the field here. I'm sure you won't regret it.
Rhetoric is that the "only" advantage is the public charging network, which will "soon be a free-for-all". The problem with this is that it is not the only advantage Tesla has over the market, in my opinion.
The mobile app has far more functions than any other that I have seen.
The continuous rolling-out of new features / software updates / bug fixes is something the rest of the industry still hasn't caught up on - my Model 3 and how I interact with it (ie primarily via the screen) is very different today than when it was first delivered. This not only keeps the car more interesting to 'own' but also improves functionality etc.
The efficiency is pretty mad. I drive like an absolute bell end most of the time, exploiting the 20-70 sprint at full throttle at every opportunity. Yet the long-term efficiency is currently telling me I'm doing a long-term average of 253Wh/mi which equates to around 4 miles per kW. On a long, congested M25 morning commute this is often knocking on 5 miles per kW. Numbers virtually un-heard of outside of tiny EV's like the Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe. It's crazy efficient - whether it's using your electricity at home or public charging network (or Tesla Supercharger) - this is what is key to running costs.
Build quality in my '22 plate isn't questionable at all. No rattles, no mis-fitting trim, no mis-aligned panels, none of the above. I've had VW's in the past and I certainly don't feel the Tesla is lacking in this department - certainly if you came from a high-end Mercedes it's not on-par, but those claiming it's sub-par and drive anything from Ford or the Korean manufacturers are kidding themselves (or more likely, doing it for the internet clout).
On top of all of this Tesla still has the most discrete / understated styling and the best charge port door location, something I can't quite get my head around how all other manufacturers are getting it so wrong!
If you can live with the minimalist interior and doing everything through a touch-screen (like we're not all glued to our smartphones anyway) then I still think the Tesla is leading the field here. I'm sure you won't regret it.
I’ve had a 3 and now have a Y. I think there are two areas where the Y is better than most others - access to the supercharger network (although some are open to other manufacturers) and efficiency. In 3000 I’m averaging 3.8 miles per kw/h and have seen 4.4.
Dog mode and Sentry are great but in every other respect, there are better options. The user interface is appalling and although build quality has improved it’s still nothing to write home about. I’d definitely look at the Hyundai/Kia/Genesis options.
Dog mode and Sentry are great but in every other respect, there are better options. The user interface is appalling and although build quality has improved it’s still nothing to write home about. I’d definitely look at the Hyundai/Kia/Genesis options.
Mark V GTD said:
Not so good if the last cars you would buy would be Kia, Hyundai etc!
Why? Their current EV's are superior in pretty much every way to what VW etc. are offering at present with the EV6 being a cracking overall package (especially with the GT model on the horizon) Looks great, well built, 7 year warranty, drives well, all the kit you'll ever need, efficient and uses 800v electrics so top of the pile for charging performance. If you were buying an Ev today to keep long term I'd struggle to find a better alternative.
Driving the Ionic 5 today. Done Y, EV6 and iX. They are much the same really. Y was quicker, but that wore off. It’s huge and very well packaged. The rest have been wasting room for styling. Y was most efficient but delve into Teslaworld on the net and there might be a new 4680 battery coming from Berlin. This makes me nervous about buying something that might be outdated 3 months after I buy. Wasn’t dark or wet so didn’t see those issues.
Not sure EV’s have brand identity of old. The all drive the same. It’s down to tech, fit/finish and looks I feel.
Not sure EV’s have brand identity of old. The all drive the same. It’s down to tech, fit/finish and looks I feel.
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