Attraction of EV's
Discussion
Evening all,
Having just seen and posted on another post regarding the likely introduction of VED for EV's it got me wondering how attractive EV's are as a proposition now that the free lunches are coming to an end?
It really wasn't that long ago when EV's could park, charge and be in the roads for free which went a way to negate their up-front cost and distance limitations. Even if you had to charge at home you could easily do so with 8-10p/kwh electric rates making the average EV achieve around 2p/mile to run which compared favourably to say a diesel car a year ago that would have been around the 10-11p/mile.
Now however it's looking like VED will be introduced in the next couple of years (not necessarily a bad thing), almost all free chargers have ceased and commercial ones are now charging between 70p-£1/kwh meaning charging on the go costs between 17.5-25p/mile with home charging costing around 9p/mile. Still favourable to diesel which is now around 17p/mile (when charging at home only!) but still with the high up front cost and infrastructure limitations!
If high electric costs continue for a number of years I can see this having a negative effect on EV sales. If I wasn't still getting free electric I'm not sure I'd go for an EV for my 110 mile daily commute anymore.
Are other people starting to think this about EV's?
Having just seen and posted on another post regarding the likely introduction of VED for EV's it got me wondering how attractive EV's are as a proposition now that the free lunches are coming to an end?
It really wasn't that long ago when EV's could park, charge and be in the roads for free which went a way to negate their up-front cost and distance limitations. Even if you had to charge at home you could easily do so with 8-10p/kwh electric rates making the average EV achieve around 2p/mile to run which compared favourably to say a diesel car a year ago that would have been around the 10-11p/mile.
Now however it's looking like VED will be introduced in the next couple of years (not necessarily a bad thing), almost all free chargers have ceased and commercial ones are now charging between 70p-£1/kwh meaning charging on the go costs between 17.5-25p/mile with home charging costing around 9p/mile. Still favourable to diesel which is now around 17p/mile (when charging at home only!) but still with the high up front cost and infrastructure limitations!
If high electric costs continue for a number of years I can see this having a negative effect on EV sales. If I wasn't still getting free electric I'm not sure I'd go for an EV for my 110 mile daily commute anymore.
Are other people starting to think this about EV's?
It’s amazing how quickly this gravy train stopped. I am sure the diesel incentives were MUCH longer.
Sure, the cost of elec going up could not have been foreseen to this extent but it does seem that the freebies ended quickly.
Whenever I heard the original adverts that said "no more Road tax’ I thought ‘that will end"
Sure, the cost of elec going up could not have been foreseen to this extent but it does seem that the freebies ended quickly.
Whenever I heard the original adverts that said "no more Road tax’ I thought ‘that will end"
I can understand that heavily populated or high traffic areas would want people to use EV, where pollution could be captured at source, such that local air is cleaner.
The whole "how do we produce energy" thing needed addressing twenty years ago. We still don't have any really coherent plan for energy production that is financially and raw materially achievable that would support mass adoption of EV or hydrogen/stored air cars.
The whole "how do we produce energy" thing needed addressing twenty years ago. We still don't have any really coherent plan for energy production that is financially and raw materially achievable that would support mass adoption of EV or hydrogen/stored air cars.
Sporky said:
QuattroDave said:
my 110 mile daily commute
It's got to be economically viable to move, right? 1. I don't pay for electric so £0 per month;
2. I wouldn't move for this job!
3. Stamp duty would equate to around 3 years worth of diesel consumption at £2/litre!
4. No way I'd leave where I live to be where I work
Caddyshack said:
It’s amazing how quickly this gravy train stopped. I am sure the diesel incentives were MUCH longer.
Sure, the cost of elec going up could not have been foreseen to this extent but it does seem that the freebies ended quickly.
Whenever I heard the original adverts that said "no more Road tax’ I thought ‘that will end"
Incredible isn't it, derailed and hit a wall all at the same time!Sure, the cost of elec going up could not have been foreseen to this extent but it does seem that the freebies ended quickly.
Whenever I heard the original adverts that said "no more Road tax’ I thought ‘that will end"
I spent over 30 years working in ICEV product development and still love driving them on race circuits.
But EVs are in a different league. They make ICEVs look like dinosaurs for all the obvious reason. Analogous to the death of steam railway engines as superior electric traction took over.
I'm lucky to get an excellent deal on ICE lease cars. When that is matched by EVs, I'll make the switch without hesitation.
But EVs are in a different league. They make ICEVs look like dinosaurs for all the obvious reason. Analogous to the death of steam railway engines as superior electric traction took over.
I'm lucky to get an excellent deal on ICE lease cars. When that is matched by EVs, I'll make the switch without hesitation.
cootuk said:
I can understand that heavily populated or high traffic areas would want people to use EV, where pollution could be captured at source, such that local air is cleaner.
The whole "how do we produce energy" thing needed addressing twenty years ago. We still don't have any really coherent plan for energy production that is financially and raw materially achievable that would support mass adoption of EV or hydrogen/stored air cars.
Completely agree, IF EV's are the true future (Hydrogen still seems the better long term option) then the green movement needed to happen as you say 20 years ago or so, even simple things like mandatory solar panels on newbuilds are a relatively new thing. EV panels covering car parks on industrial and commercial would also have helped massively but that sort of policy isn't a thing even now!The whole "how do we produce energy" thing needed addressing twenty years ago. We still don't have any really coherent plan for energy production that is financially and raw materially achievable that would support mass adoption of EV or hydrogen/stored air cars.
Then there's the national grid capacity which we're very close to!
Christ I'm in a depressing mood today, I blame my HSBC economic update I had this morning!
bigothunter said:
I spent over 30 years working in ICEV product development and still love driving them on race circuits.
But EVs are in a different league. They make ICEVs look like dinosaurs for all the obvious reason. Analogous to the death of steam railway engines as superior electric traction took over.
I'm lucky to get an excellent deal on ICE lease cars. When that is matched by EVs, I'll make the switch without hesitation.
DOn't get me wrong, I love my EV for equal and opposite reasons to why I love my V8 mustang! They're great for what they do but you've hit the nail on the head that the upfront cost whether it's purchase/lease/whatever just doesn't justify them. Low running costs used to help a lot but they've vanished, fast!But EVs are in a different league. They make ICEVs look like dinosaurs for all the obvious reason. Analogous to the death of steam railway engines as superior electric traction took over.
I'm lucky to get an excellent deal on ICE lease cars. When that is matched by EVs, I'll make the switch without hesitation.
page3 said:
It’s not just a cost thing.
Except it is. They would never have sold in the numbers they have were it not for the favourable BIK rates (cf double cab pick ups previously).Obviously there are a few misguided souls who think they’re saving the planet when they’re not but for the majority of people it’s a cost thing.
Surely the main attraction for almost all company car drivers is the BIK advantage over fossil fueled alternatives?
.
For me, a mid-spec Tesla Model 3 costs me £38 a month in additional tax. Spending the same money on a petrol or diesel fueled car of a similar size would cost me £900+ per month. It couldn't be more of a no-brainer.
Just like diesel offered a financial advantage to company car owners and fleet managers 15-20 years ago. I would suggest no fleet manager or company car driver selected a diesel car for anything other than financial reasons, and I'd wager that applies as much today with EV's. I assume private buyers (lessee/renter/whatever) are buying into the perceived environmental benefits of EV's or can't resist buying the latest thing just because.
There is no doubt of the benefits that the EV drivetrain offers in terms of reduced NVH, traction, packaging etc. but very few of the mainstream manufacturers' have done anything particularly clever with it - yet - to my eyes. The Tesla is a very good drivetrain and tech package in a very average, dull and cheaply built car, IMHO.
I wouldn't be surprised if we're listening to Classic FM adverts in twenty years offering compensation to buyers' of EV's who bought them because they thought they would be doing their bit to save the planet, but, in fact they weren't.
.
For me, a mid-spec Tesla Model 3 costs me £38 a month in additional tax. Spending the same money on a petrol or diesel fueled car of a similar size would cost me £900+ per month. It couldn't be more of a no-brainer.
Just like diesel offered a financial advantage to company car owners and fleet managers 15-20 years ago. I would suggest no fleet manager or company car driver selected a diesel car for anything other than financial reasons, and I'd wager that applies as much today with EV's. I assume private buyers (lessee/renter/whatever) are buying into the perceived environmental benefits of EV's or can't resist buying the latest thing just because.
There is no doubt of the benefits that the EV drivetrain offers in terms of reduced NVH, traction, packaging etc. but very few of the mainstream manufacturers' have done anything particularly clever with it - yet - to my eyes. The Tesla is a very good drivetrain and tech package in a very average, dull and cheaply built car, IMHO.
I wouldn't be surprised if we're listening to Classic FM adverts in twenty years offering compensation to buyers' of EV's who bought them because they thought they would be doing their bit to save the planet, but, in fact they weren't.
Evanivitch said:
Caddyshack said:
It’s amazing how quickly this gravy train stopped. I am sure the diesel incentives were MUCH longer.
"
Leafs and Tesla started 10 years ago..."
I suppose most new cars go to people only looking 2 or 3 years ahead, so the idea that a diesel might be about as current as a VHS tape in 10 years' time doesn't compute.
It seems that everyone who buys an 'affordable' car who I speak to has seriously considered getting a BEV and said something like 'probably next time!'
I'd suggest there are people in Whitehall looking at the UK's 2035 CO2 commitments and proposing more EV incentives rather than less?
85Carrera said:
page3 said:
It’s not just a cost thing.
Except it is. They would never have sold in the numbers they have were it not for the favourable BIK rates (cf double cab pick ups previously).Obviously there are a few misguided souls who think they’re saving the planet when they’re not but for the majority of people it’s a cost thing.
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