Attraction of EV's
Discussion
doodlebug said:
Richtea1970 said:
The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from a Tesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there..
The Kia EV6 AWD has been tested by several car sites to be around 4.8 seconds to 60 although I think that Kia specify 5.2 seconds. The 2WD version of the EV6 is 7.5 seconds to 60 and the new GT will be around 3.5 secondscerb4.5lee said:
I tell you something that I do like about an EV is how you don't have an engine to warm up before you boot it. I hate that early warming up phase with an ICE, and I'm very precious and I won't floor a cold engine. So it was nice to drive an EV knowing that I could floor it straight away without any fear if I wanted to.
Sadly petrol heads are in the minority with this. I'm he same but most people have zero mechanical sympathy. I live around MK and people drive out of their estates and are bombing about straight away. Makes my teeth itch and why I rarely buy used cars nowadays.Don't get me started on speed bumps!
But yes, EV's suit the masses as you don't even need to run an EV in really. Just brakes and tyres. Although the other benefit from cold is preheating the cabin (or cooling in summer).
cerb4.5lee said:
TheDeuce said:
raspy said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I don't think that it is quite as cut and dried as that for me. I had a 2021 Merc EQA 250 this week as a loan car, and I genuinely couldn't wait to get back into my 2022 Merc GLE400d. The EQA felt slow/heavy and a lot less refined than the GLE. I thought that an electric car would wipe the floor with a diesel car in terms of NVH and general smoothness, but not a chance from my experience.
So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.
Why not compare like for like? Go drive a EQE SUV and compare it with your GLE. So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.
It's good we've got people like you out there doing the research and feeding back to us all
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
I noticed that on my Mercedes too, but not so with my petrol Mini Cooper S. Pulls super well from just above tick over. From the link below you can see new no turbo lag giving full torque from 1250-5000rpm. Ideal for burning up unsuspecting old grannie at the traffic lights.
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.ph...
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.ph...
plfrench said:
cerb4.5lee said:
TheDeuce said:
raspy said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I don't think that it is quite as cut and dried as that for me. I had a 2021 Merc EQA 250 this week as a loan car, and I genuinely couldn't wait to get back into my 2022 Merc GLE400d. The EQA felt slow/heavy and a lot less refined than the GLE. I thought that an electric car would wipe the floor with a diesel car in terms of NVH and general smoothness, but not a chance from my experience.
So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.
Why not compare like for like? Go drive a EQE SUV and compare it with your GLE. So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.
It's good we've got people like you out there doing the research and feeding back to us all
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
I just think that my expectations of an EV were miles too high(I fell into the same trap with the E92 M3 as well and I ended up really disappointed with that too). I was expecting a night and day difference in comparison to an ICE and I personally didn't get that. I definitely still need to try a performance EV at some stage though for sure.
plfrench said:
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
I have experienced what you are saying here in the GLC350d and the GLE400d, and it can be annoying for definite. Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
What I really disliked about the EQA was how it nose dives forward as soon as you come off the throttle(I've followed a lot of EVs on the road that do the same too). I found that incredibly annoying, plus it ruined the whole smoothness thing that EVs are known for I thought.
cerb4.5lee said:
plfrench said:
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
I have experienced what you are saying here in the GLC350d and the GLE400d, and it can be annoying for definite. Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
What I really disliked about the EQA was how it nose dives forward as soon as you come off the throttle(I've followed a lot of EVs on the road that do the same too). I found that incredibly annoying, plus it ruined the whole smoothness thing that EVs are known for I thought.
An EV will feel like any other auto if setup the right way, except smoother due to no gear changes.
TheDeuce said:
cerb4.5lee said:
plfrench said:
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
I have experienced what you are saying here in the GLC350d and the GLE400d, and it can be annoying for definite. Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
What I really disliked about the EQA was how it nose dives forward as soon as you come off the throttle(I've followed a lot of EVs on the road that do the same too). I found that incredibly annoying, plus it ruined the whole smoothness thing that EVs are known for I thought.
An EV will feel like any other auto if setup the right way, except smoother due to no gear changes.
Zero Fuchs said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I tell you something that I do like about an EV is how you don't have an engine to warm up before you boot it. I hate that early warming up phase with an ICE, and I'm very precious and I won't floor a cold engine. So it was nice to drive an EV knowing that I could floor it straight away without any fear if I wanted to.
Sadly petrol heads are in the minority with this. I'm he same but most people have zero mechanical sympathy. I live around MK and people drive out of their estates and are bombing about straight away. Makes my teeth itch and why I rarely buy used cars nowadays.Don't get me started on speed bumps!
But yes, EV's suit the masses as you don't even need to run an EV in really. Just brakes and tyres. Although the other benefit from cold is preheating the cabin (or cooling in summer).
Leased no doubt.
cerb4.5lee said:
plfrench said:
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
I have experienced what you are saying here in the GLC350d and the GLE400d, and it can be annoying for definite. Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
What I really disliked about the EQA was how it nose dives forward as soon as you come off the throttle(I've followed a lot of EVs on the road that do the same too). I found that incredibly annoying, plus it ruined the whole smoothness thing that EVs are known for I thought.
It's one of the biggest differences between EV and ICE. You can turn it down / off but once you get used to it, you begin to treat the pedal as if there's another dimension. Where a 'neutral' position is where the pedal needs to be to maintain the steady speed, with lifting off slightly giving some deceleration, lifting off more giving greater deceleration. It then becomes a really finely metered out acceleration / deceleration pedal with great lineratity and precise control. It's quite a fun (relatively speaking
) thing to learn and I found really quite interesting to get used to.Trickiest bit was then going back into my car and remembering that I needed to use the brakes to slow down for the first roundabout I come to after leaving my house in a morning!!
ashenfie said:
TheDeuce said:
cerb4.5lee said:
plfrench said:
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
I have experienced what you are saying here in the GLC350d and the GLE400d, and it can be annoying for definite. Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
What I really disliked about the EQA was how it nose dives forward as soon as you come off the throttle(I've followed a lot of EVs on the road that do the same too). I found that incredibly annoying, plus it ruined the whole smoothness thing that EVs are known for I thought.
An EV will feel like any other auto if setup the right way, except smoother due to no gear changes.
Worth noting you still get as much regen as and when you brake, so you're not really losing anything - unless you brake late and hard. The higher levels of off throttle regen are more about allowing one pedal driving which some people really like, although not for me.
I've got a Hyundai Ioniq5 as well as other weekend ICE toys and friends with ICEs thought I'd gone to the dark side buying an EV.
The fact is that the Ionic5 is way better than nearly any ICE car for day-to-day driving regarding ease, smoothness etc.
Acceleration or overtaking etc on public roads is much better. Whilst it ultimately would not beat some ICEs in Top Trumps 0-60 figure, in real world public road scenarios its acceleration is more useable.
The instant, Caterham-like throttle response with instant power at any rpm allows the driver to jump into hitherto impossible gaps in the traffic. You are never 'in the wrong gear' or need to wait for the revs to build or anything like that. There's no noise of the engine revs, or induction roar from a fully open throttle and hers no exhaust noise so you just effortlessly pass the other car. Do you really want all that in your daily commute?
It all seems so simple and effortless and frankly makes ICEs look like like historical curiosities regarding public road usage .
I've also driven other similar EVs to the Ioniq5 and can say that the same stuff about them too. Don't want to argue about the other issues like greenness / charging / cost / etc but from a usability standpoint as a daily driver ICEs are truly the dinosaur option.
The fact is that the Ionic5 is way better than nearly any ICE car for day-to-day driving regarding ease, smoothness etc.
Acceleration or overtaking etc on public roads is much better. Whilst it ultimately would not beat some ICEs in Top Trumps 0-60 figure, in real world public road scenarios its acceleration is more useable.
The instant, Caterham-like throttle response with instant power at any rpm allows the driver to jump into hitherto impossible gaps in the traffic. You are never 'in the wrong gear' or need to wait for the revs to build or anything like that. There's no noise of the engine revs, or induction roar from a fully open throttle and hers no exhaust noise so you just effortlessly pass the other car. Do you really want all that in your daily commute?
It all seems so simple and effortless and frankly makes ICEs look like like historical curiosities regarding public road usage .
I've also driven other similar EVs to the Ioniq5 and can say that the same stuff about them too. Don't want to argue about the other issues like greenness / charging / cost / etc but from a usability standpoint as a daily driver ICEs are truly the dinosaur option.
TheDeuce said:
ashenfie said:
TheDeuce said:
cerb4.5lee said:
plfrench said:
I've got an E350d, so slightly better power/torque to weight than your GLE and I found the e-Golf and Zoe both nicer to drive in terms of drivetrain to mine. I just find the hesitation and slow-wittedness of my car frustrating when jumping back into mine even from lowly EVs such as those. The E-class is fine when you're on it or up to cruising speed, but it's the inbetween parts (which make up a fair chunk of daily driving). The Merc just makes a fuss about things, dropping down a few gears and making noise but taking time to actually get on with any meaningful accerleration wheres the EVs just go whilst also giving greater precision and control.
I have experienced what you are saying here in the GLC350d and the GLE400d, and it can be annoying for definite. Edited by plfrench on Tuesday 8th November 12:27
What I really disliked about the EQA was how it nose dives forward as soon as you come off the throttle(I've followed a lot of EVs on the road that do the same too). I found that incredibly annoying, plus it ruined the whole smoothness thing that EVs are known for I thought.
An EV will feel like any other auto if setup the right way, except smoother due to no gear changes.
Worth noting you still get as much regen as and when you brake, so you're not really losing anything - unless you brake late and hard. The higher levels of off throttle regen are more about allowing one pedal driving which some people really like, although not for me.
ashenfie said:
Many newer Automatic ICE cars tend to coast when you take your foot off the gas. My BMW this was quiet disconcerting on the motorway as it hardly lost any speed when exiting. Transitioning to an EV is the other way around and quite a shock at first with the regen kicking in.
That can be turned off too (in iDrive). I turned mine offI concur with all the praise of living with an EV. I bought a low range one and was instantly smitten and replaced our remaining ICE with a long range one as fast as possible.
Will add that besides BIK benefits, if you are a powerfully built director and you can buy one through your business, then it's nice being able to buy tyres, servicing etc. on the company's expense.
Also, had Cleevely EV come service them both at home, not really possible with an ICE.
Next car will have Vehicle to load, which will be useful for power cuts, camping etc.
Oh and my local town center has free parking for EVs, which for some commuters could save a small fortune.
Will add that besides BIK benefits, if you are a powerfully built director and you can buy one through your business, then it's nice being able to buy tyres, servicing etc. on the company's expense.
Also, had Cleevely EV come service them both at home, not really possible with an ICE.
Next car will have Vehicle to load, which will be useful for power cuts, camping etc.
Oh and my local town center has free parking for EVs, which for some commuters could save a small fortune.
cerb4.5lee said:
TheDeuce said:
D4rez said:
85Carrera said:
page3 said:
It’s not just a cost thing.
Except it is. They would never have sold in the numbers they have were it not for the favourable BIK rates (cf double cab pick ups previously).Obviously there are a few misguided souls who think they’re saving the planet when they’re not but for the majority of people it’s a cost thing.
But if the bik was increased to ice levels 'today', I would still stick with EV, it's very hard to go back and that seems to be the general consensus on these forums.
Of course you need a couple of million people like me that have had that experience to start to convince the average car driver that EV is ok, better even. In that sense the incentives were a good choice and appear to have achieved the goal intended. It's quite amazing when you drive an EV how many friends show interest and have endless questions about what it's like, do we worry about range etc... A couple of our friends have now got an EV and a big part of that was definitely me and the wife being able to say with a straight face that we love it and won't go back.
The manufacturers have been getting new models popular for years now by subsidising lease deals to get the first several thousand on the road in each territory, it's the same principle, familiarity breeds acceptance and confidence and then organic sales follow.
I said to my missus that the last thing you want is to go to your car in the morning and not be able to use it(I had 6 years in a TVR to know what that is like!). So that put us completely off the hybrid idea and it pushed us back into an ICE even more. Plus we decided to pay cash for the car this time instead of PCP, so I didn't fancy throwing £71k at something that might not work or you can't use. I presume that the car manufacturers will get better at the battery/electric thing as time goes on though.
Range was another stress for me as well in a full EV. I turned up at Mercedes the other day knowing that I was getting a loan car, but I was given the EQA. When I got in it-it was fully charged...but it only had 200 miles on the range! I'm used to over 400 miles in the M4 and around 700 miles in the GLE400d in comparison. So I had range anxiety straight away!
Luckily I'd took the day off, because the office is 90 miles each way from home, and I'm not sure if the EQA would have got me there and back to be fair. With an ICE you can just top up with fuel whenever you want, it isn't as easy as that with an EV though in comparison. I presume that you do get used to the faff of plugging it in and get used to the range anxiety eventually with an EV though.
Pretty poor judgement was that.
Richtea1970 said:
Tobermory said:
The Jaguar iPace is a bit slower than the KIA, but handles very well by all accounts
The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from aTesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there.However, having had a BMW i3 (which is also about 7.5 secs to 60) it was very rarely beaten from the lights and great fun to drive. We had 3 great years with it, then went with a hybrid for a while but really missed that instant torque, so came back to the EV with an iPace. The iPace is a fantastic car.
M3P is a deadly low level flying machine.
Whats not to like about 3,1 seconds to 60, and a top bat of 165 mph.
Register1 said:
cerb4.5lee said:
TheDeuce said:
D4rez said:
85Carrera said:
page3 said:
It’s not just a cost thing.
Except it is. They would never have sold in the numbers they have were it not for the favourable BIK rates (cf double cab pick ups previously).Obviously there are a few misguided souls who think they’re saving the planet when they’re not but for the majority of people it’s a cost thing.
But if the bik was increased to ice levels 'today', I would still stick with EV, it's very hard to go back and that seems to be the general consensus on these forums.
Of course you need a couple of million people like me that have had that experience to start to convince the average car driver that EV is ok, better even. In that sense the incentives were a good choice and appear to have achieved the goal intended. It's quite amazing when you drive an EV how many friends show interest and have endless questions about what it's like, do we worry about range etc... A couple of our friends have now got an EV and a big part of that was definitely me and the wife being able to say with a straight face that we love it and won't go back.
The manufacturers have been getting new models popular for years now by subsidising lease deals to get the first several thousand on the road in each territory, it's the same principle, familiarity breeds acceptance and confidence and then organic sales follow.
I said to my missus that the last thing you want is to go to your car in the morning and not be able to use it(I had 6 years in a TVR to know what that is like!). So that put us completely off the hybrid idea and it pushed us back into an ICE even more. Plus we decided to pay cash for the car this time instead of PCP, so I didn't fancy throwing £71k at something that might not work or you can't use. I presume that the car manufacturers will get better at the battery/electric thing as time goes on though.
Range was another stress for me as well in a full EV. I turned up at Mercedes the other day knowing that I was getting a loan car, but I was given the EQA. When I got in it-it was fully charged...but it only had 200 miles on the range! I'm used to over 400 miles in the M4 and around 700 miles in the GLE400d in comparison. So I had range anxiety straight away!
Luckily I'd took the day off, because the office is 90 miles each way from home, and I'm not sure if the EQA would have got me there and back to be fair. With an ICE you can just top up with fuel whenever you want, it isn't as easy as that with an EV though in comparison. I presume that you do get used to the faff of plugging it in and get used to the range anxiety eventually with an EV though.
Pretty poor judgement was that.
Register1 said:
Richtea1970 said:
Tobermory said:
The Jaguar iPace is a bit slower than the KIA, but handles very well by all accounts
The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from aTesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there.However, having had a BMW i3 (which is also about 7.5 secs to 60) it was very rarely beaten from the lights and great fun to drive. We had 3 great years with it, then went with a hybrid for a while but really missed that instant torque, so came back to the EV with an iPace. The iPace is a fantastic car.
M3P is a deadly low level flying machine.
Whats not to like about 3,1 seconds to 60, and a top bat of 165 mph.
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