Attraction of EV's

[cerb4.5lee]

JonnyVTEC said:

cerb4.5lee said:

bigothunter said:

I spent over 30 years working in ICEV product development and still love driving them on race circuits.

But EVs are in a different league. They make ICEVs look like dinosaurs for all the obvious reason.

I don't think that it is quite as cut and dried as that for me. I had a 2021 Merc EQA 250 this week as a loan car, and I genuinely couldn't wait to get back into my 2022 Merc GLE400d. The EQA felt slow/heavy and a lot less refined than the GLE. I thought that an electric car would wipe the floor with a diesel car in terms of NVH and general smoothness, but not a chance from my experience.

So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.

If you are in the midlands come drive my IPACE. That will give you a better perspective. Some jumped up crossover from a D segment SUV will always feel downgrade!

Really appreciate the offer thanks.

I would genuinely like to experience a really good EV being completely honest(and loads of folk on here absolutely adore them from what I read).

I've only driven a X5 45e and the EQA 250, and both of those left me totally flat in fairness. So I'm desperate to understand/appreciate what all the fuss is about in many ways for sure.

[TheDeuce]

delta0 said:

TheDeuce said:

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

It’s more refined and pleasant to drive. Plus you can’t get something with 600bhp that costs so little to run and is so easy to live with. Servicing, insurance and everything else is just easier and cheaper.

How far can you go if actually anything like the full 600bhp? 20 miles then a 10 hour top up. Sounds great!

I drove to Le Mans and back and used up 300kWh to do 800miles. It was being driven hard all the way. Charging was 10-20 mins.

Yep.. High speed driving kills range but using power has very little impact. You can enjoy the power of EV's pretty much for free, vs an ICE where whatever power it has, you can cut the mpg in half by having too much fun.

What luxury SUV with 400hp could I possibly replace my EV with that would do 10k miles a year driven with reckless abandon and cost just £300 ish a year to fuel? Realistically I'd have to buy and fuel a turbo/supercharged V8 SUV which would cost at least £2000 more a year to fuel and the value would plummet. And it would be slower and less stable in the corners, as all ICE SUV's are.

I'll stick, thanks

Yes exactly. The motors are over 90% efficient especially under load. Driving at least 80mph on French roads is not so efficient!

At least 80mph .. "Yes Officer, I was doing doing the speed limit, at the very least!"

Seriously though, I drive quite often from my home to North Norfolk and the average speed due to no fking motorways in Norfolk is about 50mph I guess. I have noticed that it makes next to no difference if I drive like a christian or spend the entire journey blasting past cars whenever the road opens up enough for an overtake, which is about once every 2 minutes in a powerful EV. When I had the ICE beemer I could sink the supposed 50mpg down to mid twenties on such a drive.

When comparing a cars cost side by side, it's only reasonable to also compare their performance and cost of accessing that performance. Otherwise, what is the point of the comparison..?

[TheDeuce]

cerb4.5lee said:

JonnyVTEC said:

cerb4.5lee said:

bigothunter said:

I spent over 30 years working in ICEV product development and still love driving them on race circuits.

But EVs are in a different league. They make ICEVs look like dinosaurs for all the obvious reason.

I don't think that it is quite as cut and dried as that for me. I had a 2021 Merc EQA 250 this week as a loan car, and I genuinely couldn't wait to get back into my 2022 Merc GLE400d. The EQA felt slow/heavy and a lot less refined than the GLE. I thought that an electric car would wipe the floor with a diesel car in terms of NVH and general smoothness, but not a chance from my experience.

So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.

If you are in the midlands come drive my IPACE. That will give you a better perspective. Some jumped up crossover from a D segment SUV will always feel downgrade!

Really appreciate the offer thanks.

I would genuinely like to experience a really good EV being completely honest(and loads of folk on here absolutely adore them from what I read).

I've only driven a X5 45e and the EQA 250, and both of those left me totally flat in fairness. So I'm desperate to understand/appreciate what all the fuss is about in many ways for sure.

I drove several EV's ahead of plumping for an iPace, it's a cut above for sure - Jaguar are a comically small manufacturer by modern day terms which does show in certain areas... but they really do know how to make a car put a smile on your face and get down any British road stupidly quickly.

You're being offered a free drive, take it - I did and now I have an iPace and am looking for another to replace it

[delta0]

TheDeuce said:

At least 80mph .. "Yes Officer, I was doing doing the speed limit, at the very least!"

Seriously though, I drive quite often from my home to North Norfolk and the average speed due to no fking motorways in Norfolk is about 50mph I guess. I have noticed that it makes next to no difference if I drive like a christian or spend the entire journey blasting past cars whenever the road opens up enough for an overtake, which is about once every 2 minutes in a powerful EV. When I had the ICE beemer I could sink the supposed 50mpg down to mid twenties on such a drive.

When comparing a cars cost side by side, it's only reasonable to also compare their performance and cost of accessing that performance. Otherwise, what is the point of the comparison..?

Have you driven to Le Mans? It’s 130kph most of the way and maybe a bit more…

[TheDeuce]

delta0 said:

TheDeuce said:

At least 80mph .. "Yes Officer, I was doing doing the speed limit, at the very least!"

Seriously though, I drive quite often from my home to North Norfolk and the average speed due to no fking motorways in Norfolk is about 50mph I guess. I have noticed that it makes next to no difference if I drive like a christian or spend the entire journey blasting past cars whenever the road opens up enough for an overtake, which is about once every 2 minutes in a powerful EV. When I had the ICE beemer I could sink the supposed 50mpg down to mid twenties on such a drive.

When comparing a cars cost side by side, it's only reasonable to also compare their performance and cost of accessing that performance. Otherwise, what is the point of the comparison..?

Have you driven to Le Mans? It’s 130kph most of the way and maybe a bit more…

Not Le Mans but I've driven all over Europe in all sorts of cars and the EV. I found the EV made no difference because the journey is part of the trip anyway and it's so easy to find chargers at places for lunch and places to explore along the way - I would have stopped for the same length of time at the same sort of places in a diesel tbh. EV's so easily achieve the range at which a stop is desirable for one reason or another anyway, so the short periods of charging during that stop are irrelevant.

I also really don't mind exchanging range for higher speeds, I don't care if it means I have to stop a little sooner. I'll also meet 'or exceed' the speed limit most places, especially in Italy..

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 4th November 23:34

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 4th November 23:35

[delta0]

TheDeuce said:

Not Le Mans but I've driven all over Europe in all sorts of cars and the EV. I found the EV made no difference because the journey is part of the trip anyway and it's so easy to find chargers at places for lunch and places to explore along the way - I would have stopped for the same length of time at the same sort of places in a diesel tbh. EV's so easily achieve the range at which a stop is desirable for one reason or another anyway, so the short periods of charging during that stop are irrelevant.

I also really don't mind exchanging range for higher speeds, I don't care if it means I have to stop a little sooner. I'll also meet 'or exceed' the speed limit most places, especially in Italy..

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 4th November 23:34

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 4th November 23:35

That’s what I wanted to do this time but the eurotunnel problems meant we were so late crossing we couldn’t get lunch at Somme as we intended. We ended up grabbing some snacks and continuing on. Once everyone is sorted you easily burn up 20 mins without even realising. It’s only for the timer on the charging that you know, we weren’t waiting for it. Next time we will hopefully get a longer stop at Somme to have lunch and that will also pull the charge up to 100% helping to skip a stop at Le Mans. That’s the plan anyway but anything can happen!

[TheDeuce]

delta0 said:

TheDeuce said:

Not Le Mans but I've driven all over Europe in all sorts of cars and the EV. I found the EV made no difference because the journey is part of the trip anyway and it's so easy to find chargers at places for lunch and places to explore along the way - I would have stopped for the same length of time at the same sort of places in a diesel tbh. EV's so easily achieve the range at which a stop is desirable for one reason or another anyway, so the short periods of charging during that stop are irrelevant.

I also really don't mind exchanging range for higher speeds, I don't care if it means I have to stop a little sooner. I'll also meet 'or exceed' the speed limit most places, especially in Italy..

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 4th November 23:34

Edited by TheDeuce on Friday 4th November 23:35

That’s what I wanted to do this time but the eurotunnel problems meant we were so late crossing we couldn’t get lunch at Somme as we intended. We ended up grabbing some snacks and continuing on. Once everyone is sorted you easily burn up 20 mins without even realising. It’s only for the timer on the charging that you know, we weren’t waiting for it. Next time we will hopefully get a longer stop at Somme to have lunch and that will also pull the charge up to 100% helping to skip a stop at Le Mans. That’s the plan anyway but anything can happen!

Exactly, just get on with it and be realistic about journey times and stops, mostly they won't be affected by charging anyway. I can't understand those that say an EV can't work for them because they drive 350 miles a day and can't afford to stop - that's borderline reckless in any vehicle and I question why anyone would maintain such a lifestyle.. I think it's probably just anti EV excuses for the most part.

I'd personally far rather be 'stuck' with an EV charge stop on the continent a few times a year that spend 5 minutes in a petrol station at home 50 odd times a year.

[85Carrera]

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

It’s more refined and pleasant to drive. Plus you can’t get something with 600bhp that costs so little to run and is so easy to live with. Servicing, insurance and everything else is just easier and cheaper.

How far can you go if actually anything like the full 600bhp? 20 miles then a 10 hour top up. Sounds great!

I drove to Le Mans and back and used up 300kWh to do 800miles. It was being driven hard all the way. Charging was 10-20 mins.

Well if you can go to Le Mans and back and only charge up for 10-20 mins I’m sure we’d using all be using these white goods miracles but I suspect that you spent rather more than 10-20 mins charging. Care to reveal the actual times?

I charged at Somme for 20 mins. Le Mans for 10 mins, Le Mans again for 20 mins and finally Somme again for 20 mins and then home. That provided about 150kW of charging on the go. The rest was at home.

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

[TheDeuce]

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

It’s more refined and pleasant to drive. Plus you can’t get something with 600bhp that costs so little to run and is so easy to live with. Servicing, insurance and everything else is just easier and cheaper.

How far can you go if actually anything like the full 600bhp? 20 miles then a 10 hour top up. Sounds great!

I drove to Le Mans and back and used up 300kWh to do 800miles. It was being driven hard all the way. Charging was 10-20 mins.

Well if you can go to Le Mans and back and only charge up for 10-20 mins I’m sure we’d using all be using these white goods miracles but I suspect that you spent rather more than 10-20 mins charging. Care to reveal the actual times?

I charged at Somme for 20 mins. Le Mans for 10 mins, Le Mans again for 20 mins and finally Somme again for 20 mins and then home. That provided about 150kW of charging on the go. The rest was at home.

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

Grow up. It's since been clarified that was the stop length per stop. Would you drive that distance without the odd break?

EV range exceeds what most of us would want to or should do without a break. What else matters? They work.

[delta0]

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

85Carrera said:

delta0 said:

It’s more refined and pleasant to drive. Plus you can’t get something with 600bhp that costs so little to run and is so easy to live with. Servicing, insurance and everything else is just easier and cheaper.

How far can you go if actually anything like the full 600bhp? 20 miles then a 10 hour top up. Sounds great!

I drove to Le Mans and back and used up 300kWh to do 800miles. It was being driven hard all the way. Charging was 10-20 mins.

Well if you can go to Le Mans and back and only charge up for 10-20 mins I’m sure we’d using all be using these white goods miracles but I suspect that you spent rather more than 10-20 mins charging. Care to reveal the actual times?

I charged at Somme for 20 mins. Le Mans for 10 mins, Le Mans again for 20 mins and finally Somme again for 20 mins and then home. That provided about 150kW of charging on the go. The rest was at home.

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

Hmm. No it wasn’t. You claimed it was 10 hours of charging every 20 miles. I have stated I was doing 10-20mins. I’ve driven it in an ICE and tbh you are stopping quite a bit too. It’s 15 mins to drive to the station and fill up before I go, then the Somme stop is 20 mins or often longer as we would get lunch then the Le Mans stop is about 5-10 mins. Stop at Somme again for lunch so usually there for 30-40 mins. When I’m charging I’m doing other stuff, very rarely on long journeys are you stop and go like this. You need bio breaks, food, water and sometimes a break.

[Maracus]

SWoll said:

This again..

Show some examples of where the upfront cost of an EV is so much more than an equivelant ICE car.
If you aren't public charging regularly they are still cheaper to run than ICE, especially if you are on an EV tariff.
If you aren't doing regular 200+ mile trips they do everything better than an ICE car for daily duties.

I've mentioned nothing about the environmental impact as don't know the answer and TBH not interested as was never a motivating factor.

Spot on.

MINI Cooper SE for eg.

Spec for Spec pretty identical.
My Mrs only charges at home, never does more than 40 miles a day. Costs less than 2ppm and gets 35ppm back from her work.
Warm or hot, the car can be preconditioned in a minutes.
She would not go back to a petrol Cooper S,

[Zero Fuchs]

QuattroDave said:

Evening all,

Having just seen and posted on another post regarding the likely introduction of VED for EV's it got me wondering how attractive EV's are as a proposition now that the free lunches are coming to an end?

It really wasn't that long ago when EV's could park, charge and be in the roads for free which went a way to negate their up-front cost and distance limitations. Even if you had to charge at home you could easily do so with 8-10p/kwh electric rates making the average EV achieve around 2p/mile to run which compared favourably to say a diesel car a year ago that would have been around the 10-11p/mile.

Now however it's looking like VED will be introduced in the next couple of years (not necessarily a bad thing), almost all free chargers have ceased and commercial ones are now charging between 70p-£1/kwh meaning charging on the go costs between 17.5-25p/mile with home charging costing around 9p/mile. Still favourable to diesel which is now around 17p/mile (when charging at home only!) but still with the high up front cost and infrastructure limitations!

If high electric costs continue for a number of years I can see this having a negative effect on EV sales. If I wasn't still getting free electric I'm not sure I'd go for an EV for my 110 mile daily commute anymore.

Are other people starting to think this about EV's?

Do you have a link as I've not heard of this, not that it will make much difference as it's a relatively small amount compared to the £40k tax and there are still other (bigger) incentives.

I guess it's down to perspectives. You mention free lunch but I see incentives. It's only natural that these will subside but I don't think that detracts from the other measurable benefits of EV ownership.

The thing is, EV numbers have increased but not significantly or enough to improve air quality, noise, CO2 targets etc. Therefore I'd expect incentives to continue or people simply will not make the change until 2035 or beyond. VED is small. Take away BIK or company benefits etc and people simply won't do anything.

[Maracus]

delta0 said:

I charged at Somme for 20 mins. Le Mans for 10 mins, Le Mans again for 20 mins and finally Somme again for 20 mins and then home. That provided about 150kW of charging on the go. The rest was at home.

Pretty much echoes our trip to Annecy in August.

Drove 2 hours between stops, plugged for 10-15 mins each time to add enough electrons for the next 2 hours. No different to every ICE trip we've done over the past 10 years.

The car had topped up enough quicker than we were after a comfort break and a fist full of chocs.

Where does the 10 hour charge bullst come from?

[Turtle Shed]

Owned our Leaf from new, bought it in 2014, it's on 65k miles.

Could give a stuff about green credentials etc....

Bought it because it is so refined to drive and charging at home to do the short journeys we do remains incredibly convenient.

Makes gearboxes and clutches etc feel like technology from decades ago, which is exactly what they are.

[krisdelta]

The EV attraction for me is a small, very nippy, cheap to buy and run “around town / school run / commute” car - Gen2 Leaf, that has meant I can have a less practical V12 for other days.

It’s getting close to practical in terms of battery capacity now to replace the X5 with an electric SUV. But I’d hope, legislation and spine allowing, to always have a fun ICE car on the side for road trips and sunny weekends.

Even with todays inflated electric prices, the Leaf costs half the price per mile of the X5, which is half the price again of my Aston, and both are harder to use around town than the Leaf.

[Drl22]

cerb4.5lee said:

I don't think that it is quite as cut and dried as that for me. I had a 2021 Merc EQA 250 this week as a loan car, and I genuinely couldn't wait to get back into my 2022 Merc GLE400d. The EQA felt slow/heavy and a lot less refined than the GLE. I thought that an electric car would wipe the floor with a diesel car in terms of NVH and general smoothness, but not a chance from my experience.

So I just don't get the attraction with EVs other than the cheap running costs.

My experience couldn’t be different. My Lusso hasn’t sold yet so I picked it back up from the dealer yesterday and drove it home, I enjoyed it and wondered why I was selling it. Then I got in the Taycan to pick up the kids and remembered immediately. For a daily driver and mundanities it is just better, more refined, quieter, more socially acceptable, less little quirks, it just works and is stupid fast not just in a straight line either.

ICE is for the weekend now, that can’t be replaced.

[Scrimpton]

85Carrera said:

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

The irony of calling out bullst while not telling us more about your experience with running for 20 miles and then having to charge for 10 hours...

[RobbyJ]

85Carrera said:

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

But this is Pistonheads, people here mostly have a genuine interest it cars. I've had several V8's and a V10, back in the day a Subaru, an R33 GTR. I think I'm allowed to be classed as a petrol head, my last car was a 750bhp Audi RS7 (I'm a sensible family man now). I now own a Tesla Model S P90D (alleged 762bhp). I absolutely love the electric experience, it ticks so many of my boxes. I feel like I'm stuck in some weird limbo land now where my whole life all I wanted was the Ferrari's and Lambo's of this world, I still look at them and drool but I no longer want to own one (save perhaps a 288 GTO).

Personally I just prefer the EV driving experience, quiet clam EV mile muncher on the commute or family duties and it'll tear my face off when I want to have a little fun. Is it objectively better/faster than all the ICE cars I've owned, no. Does it tick my boxes better than anything else, yes.

I also drove to LM the last 2 years and to Germany in the summer (1600 mile trip) and it was easy.

Give one a go sometime, they may not be for you yet but it might give you at least some understanding rather than just shouting fellow car enthusiasts down as a keyboard warrior.

[SWoll]

85Carrera said:

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

I see we have another poorly informed and very angry contributer who's stumbled into the section to vent his spleen whilst offering us the benefit of his vast experience and wisdom.

[phib]

SWoll said:

85Carrera said:

Your original claim about charging for 10-20 minutes for the trip was a lie, then, like most EV bullst

I see we have another poorly informed and very angry contributer who's stumbled into the section to vent his spleen whilst offering us the benefit of his vast experience and wisdom.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I normally get 150 miles in a 20 min charge, this picture was a slow charge so about 120 miles ish

Edited by phib on Saturday 5th November 10:38