Attraction of EV's

[anonymous-user]

My gut instinct tells me that with more financed new cars on three years deals it must have an impact on the age of the UK fleet with older cars getting scrapped sooner.

In fact the average age of cars on the road has actually increased as people hold onto their cars longer in harder Financial Times.

Also as has already been pointed out, this is actually a bad thing as the bulk of CO2 emissions are from use not construction. Even a modern ICE is 20% more efficient than one made 10 years ago.


So the current COL crisis and supply chain issues will be bad for emissions even if some people drive less because of fuel prices

[cerb4.5lee]

TheDeuce said:

D4rez said:

85Carrera said:

page3 said:

It’s not just a cost thing.

Except it is. They would never have sold in the numbers they have were it not for the favourable BIK rates (cf double cab pick ups previously).

Obviously there are a few misguided souls who think they’re saving the planet when they’re not but for the majority of people it’s a cost thing.

It’s out of the carrot and into the stick now, the ban is approaching and ICE will be taxed far worse than BEV don’t worry

I'll openly admit it was the bik that got me into an EV, the £80k Jag on zero bik and a great lease deal cost me less than a basic diesel golf would have doneif paid for privately.

But if the bik was increased to ice levels 'today', I would still stick with EV, it's very hard to go back and that seems to be the general consensus on these forums.

Of course you need a couple of million people like me that have had that experience to start to convince the average car driver that EV is ok, better even. In that sense the incentives were a good choice and appear to have achieved the goal intended. It's quite amazing when you drive an EV how many friends show interest and have endless questions about what it's like, do we worry about range etc... A couple of our friends have now got an EV and a big part of that was definitely me and the wife being able to say with a straight face that we love it and won't go back.

The manufacturers have been getting new models popular for years now by subsidising lease deals to get the first several thousand on the road in each territory, it's the same principle, familiarity breeds acceptance and confidence and then organic sales follow.

The confidence thing hit us quite hard from our experience. I booked a test drive in a 2021 BMW X5 45e(it was up for sale for £71k at the time), but we turned up on the day and there was a fault on the battery and the car couldn't be driven(we ended up taking the dealer principals X5 45e out instead).

I said to my missus that the last thing you want is to go to your car in the morning and not be able to use it(I had 6 years in a TVR to know what that is like!). So that put us completely off the hybrid idea and it pushed us back into an ICE even more. Plus we decided to pay cash for the car this time instead of PCP, so I didn't fancy throwing £71k at something that might not work or you can't use. I presume that the car manufacturers will get better at the battery/electric thing as time goes on though.

Range was another stress for me as well in a full EV. I turned up at Mercedes the other day knowing that I was getting a loan car, but I was given the EQA. When I got in it-it was fully charged...but it only had 200 miles on the range! I'm used to over 400 miles in the M4 and around 700 miles in the GLE400d in comparison. So I had range anxiety straight away!

Luckily I'd took the day off, because the office is 90 miles each way from home, and I'm not sure if the EQA would have got me there and back to be fair. With an ICE you can just top up with fuel whenever you want, it isn't as easy as that with an EV though in comparison. I presume that you do get used to the faff of plugging it in and get used to the range anxiety eventually with an EV though.

[raspy]

cerb4.5lee said:

The confidence thing hit us quite hard from our experience. I booked a test drive in a 2021 BMW X5 45e(it was up for sale for £71k at the time), but we turned up on the day and there was a fault on the battery and the car couldn't be driven(we ended up taking the dealer principals X5 45e out instead).

I said to my missus that the last thing you want is to go to your car in the morning and not be able to use it(I had 6 years in a TVR to know what that is like!). So that put us completely off the hybrid idea and it pushed us back into an ICE even more. Plus we decided to pay cash for the car this time instead of PCP, so I didn't fancy throwing £71k at something that might not work or you can't use. I presume that the car manufacturers will get better at the battery/electric thing as time goes on though.

Range was another stress for me as well in a full EV. I turned up at Mercedes the other day knowing that I was getting a loan car, but I was given the EQA. When I got in it-it was fully charged...but it only had 200 miles on the range! I'm used to over 400 miles in the M4 and around 700 miles in the GLE400d in comparison. So I had range anxiety straight away!

Luckily I'd took the day off, because the office is 90 miles each way from home, and I'm not sure if the EQA would have got me there and back to be fair. With an ICE you can just top up with fuel whenever you want, it isn't as easy as that with an EV though in comparison. I presume that you do get used to the faff of plugging it in and get used to the range anxiety eventually with an EV though.

You're viewing the entire motoring landscape based upon two incidents, one with a PHEV and one with a BEV? That's extremely short sighted.

That's like me test driving a petrol car that does 20mpg and reaching the conclusion that all petrol cars are thirsty and I won't ever consider a petrol vehicle.

Don't ICE cars go wrong? Or nobody with an ICE car has ever woken up to find that their car doesn't start and the breakdown people need to be called?

Hybrids are fine. It's not like they are brand new technology, invented yesterday. Yes, a few stories that hit the newspapers but by and large, hybrids and even PHEVs are pretty reliable.

EVs exist today with 300-500 miles of range (Lucid air I'm referring to with 500 miles that comes here next year). Just because the EQA you was 200 miles range doesn't mean all EVs have 200 miles range.

What's the faff of plugging an EV in? It depends where you go and where you live, but I have an EV with 220 miles of range at this time of year and haven't even bothered to install a home charger as it's quite easy to use public chargers. Not a faff at all. I find there are always long queues at petrol stations now.

I used a rapid charger at a petrol station yesterday whilst I had to grab some lunch. Plugging in was easier and quicker than waiting for a pump to be free and then waiting again inside the shop to pay.

Out of curiosity, how many days in the week are you doing a 400 mile round trip in the M4, and how many days in the week are you doing a 700 mile round trip in the GLE?

[TheRainMaker]

raspy said:

What's the faff of plugging an EV in? It depends where you go and where you live, but I have an EV with 220 miles of range at this time of year and haven't even bothered to install a home charger as it's quite easy to use public chargers. Not a faff at all. I find there are always long queues at petrol stations now.

As an EV owner, there is no way I could run an EV without a home or work charger, it's just not going to happen.

The only rapid charger near my office is broken and has been for months



We are going to Scotland fairly soon to see family and I checked to see what sort of charging they had up there (Balloch)

The 50kW charger is broken



OK so I checked the next town Bellsmyre, it is also broken and has been for months.



Now we could use the public chargers at the shores (15 min walk each way), they should supply 11kW which would be around 7 hours of charge time.

Walking for 30 mins in Scotland in the winter just to charge the car doesn't sound like much fun to me TBH.

[TheDeuce]

TheRainMaker said:

raspy said:

What's the faff of plugging an EV in? It depends where you go and where you live, but I have an EV with 220 miles of range at this time of year and haven't even bothered to install a home charger as it's quite easy to use public chargers. Not a faff at all. I find there are always long queues at petrol stations now.

As an EV owner, there is no way I could run an EV without a home or work charger, it's just not going to happen.

The only rapid charger near my office is broken and has been for months



We are going to Scotland fairly soon to see family and I checked to see what sort of charging they had up there (Balloch)

The 50kW charger is broken



OK so I checked the next town Bellsmyre, it is also broken and has been for months.



Now we could use the public chargers at the shores (15 min walk each way), they should supply 11kW which would be around 7 hours of charge time.

Walking for 30 mins in Scotland in the winter just to charge the car doesn't sound like much fun to me TBH.

So many complaints about the charger network in Scotland... It's difficult though as outside major cities the population density is very low and it must be bugger to work out where to put a charger that makes sense commercially. And I would guess that the ones that break and are then not repaired have proven not to make money anyway.

It's a shame because I love the idea of drive holiday in the highlands but it's just not very practical yet - the Scottish government need to do 'something' to sort the charger situation because in time it's going to start to hit tourism in addition to pissing off the locals who will eventually need to adopt EV's on a greater scale.

[S600BSB]

2 years in with my ipace and it is fantastic. Fast, comfortable and cheap to run. Have a home charger and average 1,000 miles a month. Have only used a public charger twice. I really wouldn't go back to an ICE for my daily. Another ipace is on the way.

[Evanivitch]

Tobermory said:

In fact the average age of cars on the road has actually increased as people hold onto their cars longer in harder Financial Times.

And statistically historic events like scrappage schemes would have modified the fleet age too, especially as people with older cars were being brought straight into new cars at the time.

[Maracus]

TheDeuce said:

TheRainMaker said:

raspy said:

What's the faff of plugging an EV in? It depends where you go and where you live, but I have an EV with 220 miles of range at this time of year and haven't even bothered to install a home charger as it's quite easy to use public chargers. Not a faff at all. I find there are always long queues at petrol stations now.

As an EV owner, there is no way I could run an EV without a home or work charger, it's just not going to happen.

The only rapid charger near my office is broken and has been for months



We are going to Scotland fairly soon to see family and I checked to see what sort of charging they had up there (Balloch)

The 50kW charger is broken



OK so I checked the next town Bellsmyre, it is also broken and has been for months.



Now we could use the public chargers at the shores (15 min walk each way), they should supply 11kW which would be around 7 hours of charge time.

Walking for 30 mins in Scotland in the winter just to charge the car doesn't sound like much fun to me TBH.

So many complaints about the charger network in Scotland... It's difficult though as outside major cities the population density is very low and it must be bugger to work out where to put a charger that makes sense commercially. And I would guess that the ones that break and are then not repaired have proven not to make money anyway.

It's a shame because I love the idea of drive holiday in the highlands but it's just not very practical yet - the Scottish government need to do 'something' to sort the charger situation because in time it's going to start to hit tourism in addition to pissing off the locals who will eventually need to adopt EV's on a greater scale.

I used 4 or 5 ChargePlace Scotland chargers in July around the Skye area. All worked great, although I did need the RF ID card as the app only works on the later charge points.

[OutInTheShed]

Evanivitch said:

Tobermory said:

In fact the average age of cars on the road has actually increased as people hold onto their cars longer in harder Financial Times.

And statistically historic events like scrappage schemes would have modified the fleet age too, especially as people with older cars were being brought straight into new cars at the time.

Not sure that the increasing age of vehicles isn't partl driven by more people being able to afford to hang on to cars.

There are 2 million more cars than 8 years ago.

[ChocolateFrog]

QuattroDave said:

Evening all,

Having just seen and posted on another post regarding the likely introduction of VED for EV's it got me wondering how attractive EV's are as a proposition now that the free lunches are coming to an end?

It really wasn't that long ago when EV's could park, charge and be in the roads for free which went a way to negate their up-front cost and distance limitations. Even if you had to charge at home you could easily do so with 8-10p/kwh electric rates making the average EV achieve around 2p/mile to run which compared favourably to say a diesel car a year ago that would have been around the 10-11p/mile.

Now however it's looking like VED will be introduced in the next couple of years (not necessarily a bad thing), almost all free chargers have ceased and commercial ones are now charging between 70p-£1/kwh meaning charging on the go costs between 17.5-25p/mile with home charging costing around 9p/mile. Still favourable to diesel which is now around 17p/mile (when charging at home only!) but still with the high up front cost and infrastructure limitations!

If high electric costs continue for a number of years I can see this having a negative effect on EV sales. If I wasn't still getting free electric I'm not sure I'd go for an EV for my 110 mile daily commute anymore.

Are other people starting to think this about EV's?

As long as they're not more expensive than a typical ICE car then EVs are generally better for day to day use.

We've got an ID3 and we wouldn't swap it for a Golf unless the Golf was significantly cheaper to run.

Never having to get into a hot or cold car is big boon. Instant torque, exceptional NVH all clearly better than a comparable ICE car.

[cerb4.5lee]

I tell you something that I do like about an EV is how you don't have an engine to warm up before you boot it. I hate that early warming up phase with an ICE, and I'm very precious and I won't floor a cold engine. So it was nice to drive an EV knowing that I could floor it straight away without any fear if I wanted to.

[Discombobulate]

Cost is a factor but on the right tariff they are still very cheap if you charge mostly at home.
However, the main benefit for me is refinement as a daily.
Put it this way, my 400 bhp EV does the equivalent of around 150mpg (cost wise, allowing for vagaries of split tariff, closer to 200mpg if you ignore that) and it is more refined in terms of NVH (and at least as fast) than anything ICE that costs twice as much to buy.
You do need an ICE toy too if you are a petrolhead.

[TheDeuce]

cerb4.5lee said:

I tell you something that I do like about an EV is how you don't have an engine to warm up before you boot it. I hate that early warming up phase with an ICE, and I'm very precious and I won't floor a cold engine. So it was nice to drive an EV knowing that I could floor it straight away without any fear if I wanted to.

I agree - I previously had a 430d, so a big diesel engine like yours. It took forever to heat up!! I think I could get almost ten miles from home in the winter before it was up to temp. Not only was it a little rough (not really rough but just not quite on song..) until that point, you really couldn't use the power because the car wouldn't enable full boost or revs until warmed up. I always used to imagine the poor bloke who bought the same car with a ten mile commute and never got to enjoy it!!

Not to mention physically 'warming up' the interior of the car. These big diesel engine cars all have electric auxiliary heaters these days which is great, but they're not very powerful. It takes quite some time for proper heat to come through which isn't something I'd want to return to.

I can't put into words the level of joy and smugness when I wake up on a frosty morning and use my phone to a) boil the kettle for coffee, b) pre-warm the EV so it's fully defrosted and warm seats by the time I've had my coffee and shower. And then pre-cool it in the summer on a hot day...

[Richtea1970]

Tobermory said:

The Jaguar iPace is a bit slower than the KIA, but handles very well by all accounts

The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from aTesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there.

However, having had a BMW i3 (which is also about 7.5 secs to 60) it was very rarely beaten from the lights and great fun to drive. We had 3 great years with it, then went with a hybrid for a while but really missed that instant torque, so came back to the EV with an iPace. The iPace is a fantastic car.

[TheDeuce]

Richtea1970 said:

Tobermory said:

The Jaguar iPace is a bit slower than the KIA, but handles very well by all accounts

The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from aTesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there.

However, having had a BMW i3 (which is also about 7.5 secs to 60) it was very rarely beaten from the lights and great fun to drive. We had 3 great years with it, then went with a hybrid for a while but really missed that instant torque, so came back to the EV with an iPace. The iPace is a fantastic car.

In fairness the 0-60 reference was to the new ev6 GT, which is a little over 3 seconds...

But regardless, the iPace is certainly fast enough and impossible to beat as a drivers EV without Taycan ££££

Jag really nailed it, it's a habit they have but only seem to get right every decade or so

[DMZ]

TheDeuce said:

It's a shame because I love the idea of drive holiday in the highlands but it's just not very practical yet - the Scottish government need to do 'something' to sort the charger situation because in time it's going to start to hit tourism in addition to pissing off the locals who will eventually need to adopt EV's on a greater scale.

Yep I did it when that charger network was quite new and free. There were a couple of broken chargers but in the main it worked very well and it was a cool thing to do. It’s not a part of the world with many petrol stations either and back when the chargers worked I would say having an EV was probably easier tbh.

[anonymous-user]

TheDeuce said:

Richtea1970 said:

Tobermory said:

The Jaguar iPace is a bit slower than the KIA, but handles very well by all accounts

The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from aTesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there.

However, having had a BMW i3 (which is also about 7.5 secs to 60) it was very rarely beaten from the lights and great fun to drive. We had 3 great years with it, then went with a hybrid for a while but really missed that instant torque, so came back to the EV with an iPace. The iPace is a fantastic car.

In fairness the 0-60 reference was to the new ev6 GT, which is a little over 3 seconds...

But regardless, the iPace is certainly fast enough and impossible to beat as a drivers EV without Taycan ££££

Jag really nailed it, it's a habit they have but only seem to get right every decade or so

Yes the EV6 GT is cheaper than the entry level iPace.

[TheDeuce]

Tobermory said:

TheDeuce said:

Richtea1970 said:

Tobermory said:

The Jaguar iPace is a bit slower than the KIA, but handles very well by all accounts

The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from aTesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there.

However, having had a BMW i3 (which is also about 7.5 secs to 60) it was very rarely beaten from the lights and great fun to drive. We had 3 great years with it, then went with a hybrid for a while but really missed that instant torque, so came back to the EV with an iPace. The iPace is a fantastic car.

In fairness the 0-60 reference was to the new ev6 GT, which is a little over 3 seconds...

But regardless, the iPace is certainly fast enough and impossible to beat as a drivers EV without Taycan ££££

Jag really nailed it, it's a habit they have but only seem to get right every decade or so

Yes the EV6 GT is cheaper than the entry level iPace.

Who are you replying too?

[sjg]

OutInTheShed said:

Evanivitch said:

Tobermory said:

In fact the average age of cars on the road has actually increased as people hold onto their cars longer in harder Financial Times.

And statistically historic events like scrappage schemes would have modified the fleet age too, especially as people with older cars were being brought straight into new cars at the time.

Not sure that the increasing age of vehicles isn't partl driven by more people being able to afford to hang on to cars.

There are 2 million more cars than 8 years ago.

Average age of cars has been increasing steadily since the mid 00s - the 2009 scrappage scheme didn't really register in those stats.

https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/cheap-car-insurance/a...

I think there's a few factors:

- average mileage keeps reducing, so cars last longer
- cars are generally more reliable and better rust-proofed
- many gains in safety and economy came prior to then, so 10+ year old cars considered good enough
- steep increases in list prices, even if they were offset by cheaper finance
- steady population growth over that time (about 7m more people, and 4m more cars on the roads)
- more favourable VED rates - if you own a pre 2017, sub 120g/km car and pay <£30pa now, you'd be paying £165pa on a new equivalent

Anyway, on the original question - it doesn't make perfect financial sense for us to run an EV, no company car or creative business accounting to get much tax benefit, just a private purchase. It's still a lot cheaper per mile especially for all the short hops running the kids to things, and the depreciation is currently non-existent (it's worth more than we paid new). It's wonderful as it gets colder to hop in a preheated car and not faff about scraping ice or waiting for the screen to demist. Plugging in at home takes a couple of seconds. And I just like how they drive for the boring everyday stuff - super torquey, quiet, can nail it from cold without needing to wait for warm up.

[doodlebug]

Richtea1970 said:

The Jaguar iPace is quicker than than the EV6, about 4.5 sec to 60 vs about 7.5 for the Kia. Aside from a Tesla, the Jag is one of the quickest EV’s out there..

The Kia EV6 AWD has been tested by several car sites to be around 4.8 seconds to 60 although I think that Kia specify 5.2 seconds. The 2WD version of the EV6 is 7.5 seconds to 60 and the new GT will be around 3.5 seconds