Wheres the incentive?

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Discussion

NS66

Original Poster:

180 posts

58 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
Seen this morning that Instavolt and BP pulse have put their charges up (75p & 65p).home tarriff 33.73 at the moment.

Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!

£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!

Jimbo.

3,950 posts

190 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
NS66 said:
Seen this morning that Instavolt and BP pulse have put their charges up (75p & 65p).home tarriff 33.73 at the moment.

Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!

£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!
Lower BIK if that matters (company car)
Lower VED (for now)
Not paying the £0.65/0.6p75 you refer to if you can change from home
The convenience of having a fully “fuelled” car every morning if you can charge at home
Lower servicing costs
A nicer, quieter, smoother drive if that’s what you want?
“Because”

A whole host of things. Could spin that around and say what’s the appeal of a Mini over a Dacia, Corsa, Fiesta etc?




Maracus

4,243 posts

169 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
You have to compare like 4 like. The MINI E should be compared against the Cooper S, not the 1.5.

The cost gap is quite small when you compare spec for spec. Add in running costs, and it's a no-brainer if you can charge from home and don't need the range.

We've had ours for 9 months and it's only ever been charged at home on Octopus Go. Was 5p/kW, now 7.5p/kW.

SWoll

18,441 posts

259 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
As above, even for a private purchase where the BIK benefits doen't apply.

- Compare apples to apples model/spec wise or accept you're getting more car for your money with the EV and factor that in.
- Consider the per mile cost of an EV tariff rather than standard
- Consider the redution in servicing costs
- Consider the difference in depreciation

You need to come up with the TCO of each vehicle for your expected period of running the car, just comparing high priced electicity and the purchase price of the vehicle is only giving you half of the picture.

It'll also be a far nicer car to drive, which has to count for somthing?

Edited by SWoll on Tuesday 8th November 10:55

fourstardan

4,309 posts

145 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
SWoll said:
As above, even for a private purchase where the BIK benefits doen't apply.

- Compare apples to apples model/spec wise or accept you're getting more car for your money with the EV and factor that in.
- Consider the per mile cost of an EV tariff rather than standard
- Consider the redution in servicing costs
- Consider the difference in depreciation

You need to come up with the TCO of each vehicle for your expected period of running the car, just comparing high priced electicity and the purchase price of the vehicle is only giving you half of the picture.
Why does an EV depreciate less than ICE cars?

NS66

Original Poster:

180 posts

58 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
Jimbo. said:
Lower BIK if that matters (company car)
Lower VED (for now)
Not paying the £0.65/0.6p75 you refer to if you can change from home
The convenience of having a fully “fuelled” car every morning if you can charge at home
Lower servicing costs
A nicer, quieter, smoother drive if that’s what you want?
“Because”

A whole host of things. Could spin that around and say what’s the appeal of a Mini over a Dacia, Corsa, Fiesta etc?
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.



Maracus

4,243 posts

169 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
fourstardan said:
SWoll said:
As above, even for a private purchase where the BIK benefits doen't apply.

- Compare apples to apples model/spec wise or accept you're getting more car for your money with the EV and factor that in.
- Consider the per mile cost of an EV tariff rather than standard
- Consider the redution in servicing costs
- Consider the difference in depreciation

You need to come up with the TCO of each vehicle for your expected period of running the car, just comparing high priced electicity and the purchase price of the vehicle is only giving you half of the picture.
Why does an EV depreciate less than ICE cars?
Our L2 MINI E would cost £3k more to buy now than it would have 9 months ago. Will hopefully provide a nice slow depreciation curve.

gangzoom

6,310 posts

216 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
NS66 said:
Seen this morning that Instavolt and BP pulse have put their charges up (75p & 65p).home tarriff 33.73 at the moment.

Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!

£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!
Compared to 2015, you could walk into a Nissan dealer and walk out with a brand new Leaf paying £0 deposit, <£200/month payments (£190 I seem to remeber??), free charging at Nissan dealers, free charging on the very patchy Ecotricity chargers, and the government paid for a charger to be installed at your house, I was even in a scheme where I WAS PAID to charge the car to understand how EV owners charging would effect the local grid.

E7 electricity at time I seem to remember was 7p/kWh without any fancy smart meter stuff, with day time rates only 1-2p kWh more expensive than normal.

Tesla at the time were giving away toy ride in kids cars, wheels, powerwalls, even whole cars as part of their referral program.

2015 wasn't that a long time ago!

SWoll

18,441 posts

259 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
fourstardan said:
Why does an EV depreciate less than ICE cars?
Supply and demand.

SWoll

18,441 posts

259 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
33.7p is you peak rate I assume, what's your off peak when you'll actually be charging even without switching to an EV tariff?
Have you considered depreciation in your calculations?
Have you considered servicing costs?

It's more complicated than you suggest, you need to work out the complete TCO of each car over 3 years and 24k miles before you can conclude anything.

raspy

1,497 posts

95 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
NS66 said:
Seen this morning that Instavolt and BP pulse have put their charges up (75p & 65p).home tarriff 33.73 at the moment.

Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!

£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!
BMW gave me discounted charging for the first 12 months with my iX.

I'm paying 45p to use BP rapid chargers and 26p to use Ionity chargers.

How about reducing emissions from your car usage as an incentive?


NS66

Original Poster:

180 posts

58 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
SWoll said:
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
33.7p is you peak rate I assume, what's your off peak when you'll actually be charging even without switching to an EV tariff?
Have you considered depreciation in your calculations?
Have you considered servicing costs?

It's more complicated than you suggest, you need to work out the complete TCO of each car over 3 years and 24k miles before you can conclude anything.
Thanks - yes will do some sums and also check what my off peak rate is.

NS66

Original Poster:

180 posts

58 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
raspy said:
How about reducing emissions from your car usage as an incentive?
We live in a rural / semi rural location - it probably would impact on me more if I lived in a town - not sure I buy into the guilt trip theory however!



SWoll

18,441 posts

259 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
NS66 said:
SWoll said:
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
33.7p is you peak rate I assume, what's your off peak when you'll actually be charging even without switching to an EV tariff?
Have you considered depreciation in your calculations?
Have you considered servicing costs?

It's more complicated than you suggest, you need to work out the complete TCO of each car over 3 years and 24k miles before you can conclude anything.
Thanks - yes will do some sums and also check what my off peak rate is.
You might still find it just doesnlt work for you, but at least you'll be making the decision with all of the information you need.

I'd guess at around 15p off peak, which would give you a per mile cost of around 4p for the EV. At current petrol costs (£1.66 litre) the 1.5 Mini acheiving an average of 50MPG would be costing 15p per mile.

Extrapolate that over 24k miles and the difference is £960 v £3600 without an EV specific tariff.


TheDeuce

21,727 posts

67 months

Tuesday 8th November 2022
quotequote all
NS66 said:
Jimbo. said:
Lower BIK if that matters (company car)
Lower VED (for now)
Not paying the £0.65/0.6p75 you refer to if you can change from home
The convenience of having a fully “fuelled” car every morning if you can charge at home
Lower servicing costs
A nicer, quieter, smoother drive if that’s what you want?
“Because”

A whole host of things. Could spin that around and say what’s the appeal of a Mini over a Dacia, Corsa, Fiesta etc?
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Surely it depends how many miles you do. The car costs £5k more but what is the saving? Also what is the value of the EV vs ICE from the perspective of the driver?

You will only pay approx 10p per kwh to charge it at home.

fourstardan

4,309 posts

145 months

Wednesday 9th November 2022
quotequote all
SWoll said:
You might still find it just doesnlt work for you, but at least you'll be making the decision with all of the information you need.

I'd guess at around 15p off peak, which would give you a per mile cost of around 4p for the EV. At current petrol costs (£1.66 litre) the 1.5 Mini acheiving an average of 50MPG would be costing 15p per mile.

Extrapolate that over 24k miles and the difference is £960 v £3600 without an EV specific tariff.
It would take me about 3 years to do 24k. I think I'd rather save the capital needed on the charger, deposits etc and make 3% interest in the bank biggrin

delta0

2,355 posts

107 months

Wednesday 9th November 2022
quotequote all
8,000 miles. You’ll probably charge what once or twice in a year outside of the home. Electricity prices will drop a lot next year, gas prices are already hugely down. Electric providers have to buy very far in advance which is causing this blip in prices. Petrol and diesel is only going one way.

Also you can switch to EV tariffs on Octopus which will drop the price on charging the car.

SWoll

18,441 posts

259 months

Wednesday 9th November 2022
quotequote all
fourstardan said:
SWoll said:
You might still find it just doesnlt work for you, but at least you'll be making the decision with all of the information you need.

I'd guess at around 15p off peak, which would give you a per mile cost of around 4p for the EV. At current petrol costs (£1.66 litre) the 1.5 Mini acheiving an average of 50MPG would be costing 15p per mile.

Extrapolate that over 24k miles and the difference is £960 v £3600 without an EV specific tariff.
It would take me about 3 years to do 24k. I think I'd rather save the capital needed on the charger, deposits etc and make 3% interest in the bank biggrin
Thats just part of the equation. You then need to consider the difference in the depreciation curve and maintenance costs to understand the true TCO difference between an ICE and EV over the same period.

There is no deposit with a cash purchase, you wouldn't need to invest in a dedicated charger to do 8k miles per year (we do 12-15k on a 3 pin charger supplied with the vehicle) and your 3% is going to earn you the sum total of around £90 a year.

Maracus

4,243 posts

169 months

Wednesday 9th November 2022
quotequote all
SWoll said:
fourstardan said:
SWoll said:
You might still find it just doesnlt work for you, but at least you'll be making the decision with all of the information you need.

I'd guess at around 15p off peak, which would give you a per mile cost of around 4p for the EV. At current petrol costs (£1.66 litre) the 1.5 Mini acheiving an average of 50MPG would be costing 15p per mile.

Extrapolate that over 24k miles and the difference is £960 v £3600 without an EV specific tariff.
It would take me about 3 years to do 24k. I think I'd rather save the capital needed on the charger, deposits etc and make 3% interest in the bank biggrin
Thats just part of the equation. You then need to consider the difference in the depreciation curve and maintenance costs to understand the true TCO difference between an ICE and EV over the same period.

There is no deposit with a cash purchase, you wouldn't need to invest in a dedicated charger to do 8k miles per year (we do 12-15k on a 3 pin charger supplied with the vehicle) and your 3% is going to earn you the sum total of around £90 a year.
Just to add, the MINI E battery has a usable capacity of 28.9kWh. On a 3 pin plug you could add 10-11kWs overnight on Octopus Go, so a dedicated charge point isn't necessarily a requirement.

It would take some recouping back even if you fully charged at peak times over and above the Go rates.

ashenfie

714 posts

47 months

Wednesday 9th November 2022
quotequote all
Jimbo. said:
NS66 said:
Seen this morning that Instavolt and BP pulse have put their charges up (75p & 65p).home tarriff 33.73 at the moment.

Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!

£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!
Lower BIK if that matters (company car)
Lower VED (for now)
Not paying the £0.65/0.6p75 you refer to if you can change from home
The convenience of having a fully “fuelled” car every morning if you can charge at home
Lower servicing costs
A nicer, quieter, smoother drive if that’s what you want?
“Because”

A whole host of things. Could spin that around and say what’s the appeal of a Mini over a Dacia, Corsa, Fiesta etc?
The OP can't have the option to home charge else he would have said that? I
would not recommend anyone purchase as ev unless that could charge at home. Then unless you can get an engery deal no cost savings to be had. From the comparison from fleetnews (see below ) The mini se costs around 56.44p per mile to run and the highest (to get purchase price about the same) spec. 1.5 around 39.79p

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...




Edited by ashenfie on Wednesday 9th November 09:07