Wheres the incentive?
Discussion
NS66 said:
Seen this morning that Instavolt and BP pulse have put their charges up (75p & 65p).home tarriff 33.73 at the moment.
Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!
£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!
I spotted those new rates too.... fortunately I charge at home 99.9% of the time at 22p off-peak and do a fairly high mileage. I was also able to put my purchase through a private company, so the tax incentive was attractive too.Just changing my wifes car - was undecided on Mini EV or Mini petrol 1.5 - looks like the decision will be petrol then!!
£5000 more for EV - 8000 miles pa - keeping 3 years - just cant see an incentive!!!!
However, for many, the rise in public charger rates will be enough to make them think twice about an EV as an alternative to an ICE car. When you're looking at £50+ to fill with volts for a range of maybe 280 miles.... the benefits start to look slim. Saving newts doesn't really come into most peoples decisions.
I'm in the "don't see the benefit" camp.
To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
IJWS15 said:
I'm in the "don't see the benefit" camp.
To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
You're making a lot of assumptions there to support your own view point...To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
If you're driving 25k a year then you will be paying thousands per year in fuel vs probably £900-1000 in electricity.
Using maximum range has next to no impact on the battery life, and 100 miles is not a long journey anyway.
The environmental benefits are fully calculated and it's know that taking everything into account, EV's are far cleaner. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact.
You suggest an EV battery is 'probably' dying at 10 years old. Why would you suggest such a thing in the face of clear evidence to the contrary? The EV's sold ten years ago have lost even less range than the manufacturers predicted, let alone the doom mongering press and naysayers. It's plain loopy to maintain this POV now we've actually had ten years and can clearly see that the battery degradation issue just isn't an issue. Nothing lasts forever of course but the truth is that the average EV including battery and motor are on a trajectory to very comfortably outlast the average ICE car.
IJWS15 said:
I'm in the "don't see the benefit" camp.
To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
Where do you get the screwing up the battery quickly from when using maximum range? There is a BMS that manages the the battery.To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
If you're concerned about the environment, how do you think petrol and oil appear?
You do realise that the batteries can have a second life as battery storage, even the early Leaf batteries, although part of the packs can now be swapped. I don't get the obsession about the batteries, they will outlast the car.
There are more more reasons to have an EV apart from BIK. Cheap running costs, cheap electric (charging from home), effortless drive, preheating,cooling, max range every morning, no fuel stations visits. BIK is a very good reason, but not the only one.
I don't see many EVs doing 60 on the motorway, most are 70+.
If the OP is with Octopus already and can charge from home, just move to their 'Go' product or even 'Intelligent' product where you'll get at minimum 4 hours of cheap electric every day.
For reference, we moved to Go in Sept and costs 7.5p per kw from 12.30am - 4.30am and doing around 100 miles per day, we can 'fill' our car back up each day in that time. 4 hours of 7kw charging can put in 116 miles for us.
You can also shift other electric devices in the home (dishwashers, washing machines etc) at cheap rate so you'll save even more but you need a home charger to get on these tariffs.
For reference, we moved to Go in Sept and costs 7.5p per kw from 12.30am - 4.30am and doing around 100 miles per day, we can 'fill' our car back up each day in that time. 4 hours of 7kw charging can put in 116 miles for us.
You can also shift other electric devices in the home (dishwashers, washing machines etc) at cheap rate so you'll save even more but you need a home charger to get on these tariffs.
IJWS15 said:
I'm in the "don't see the benefit" camp.
To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
I think you're in the 'making things up' camp.To me the extra capital cost of the EV is far more than the cost of fuel, assuming I could charge an EV for free, that I would put in an ICE (and before lockdown I was driving 25k miles a year) .
It would appear that you can't really use the maximum range regularly without screwing up the battery quickly, currently if my car moves it normally does 100 miles or more so maintaining range is a concern (last five journeys from home in Midlands - High wycombe, Winchester, Kempton, Barnsley, Winchester).
The environmental benefit is minimal if any when you consider the issues around mining for the minerals that make the batteries and disposal of the battery when it has got so bad it won't even get you to Tesco (Waitrose for the posh).
What is the value of a 10 year old EV with a (probably) dying battery . . . . . . . .would you really buy one? At least you can still get in a 10 year old ICE and drive it 2-300 miles.
The only reason to have an EV is the lower BIK charge.
As for virtue signalling - I will believe that when all the EVs I see on the motorway are doing 60 to use less energy instead of the 75-80 they are normally doing.
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Unless you were a very unusual private EV user you use the public fast charging so infrequently its almost not worth considering in the calculation. We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Work on 10p per mile in the EV and you won't be far off.
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Octopus Intelligent is 10p for 6 hrs every night. That is 80-120 miles a night on 7kW charger and very cheap. And day rate is a bit higher at 41p but average rate for us is way lower than current 34p 24 hr cap. Depends on your use.We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Discombobulate said:
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Octopus Intelligent is 10p for 6 hrs every night. That is 80-120 miles a night on 7kW charger and very cheap. And day rate is a bit higher at 41p but average rate for us is way lower than current 34p 24 hr cap. Depends on your use.We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
What's really good is we typically get 8-10 hours a day cheap rate (because of the random extra hours they throw at times of grid power excess) so long as the car is plugged in ready to charge - and during those extra hours everything else using power is cheap too!
ashenfie said:
I would agree that Octopus Go could be a good option and the 10p Electric would provide a reasonable deal, but should the OP go solar first? The day rate is rather bad and depending on usage a Solar or even Solar + Battery maybe a better first step.
Why a better first step? Going to Octopus intelligent is free and more or less immediate. Pretty much anyone with an EV is going to be able to shift all charging to the cheap hours, along with a load of other stuff too.Surely do that switch first regardless of also considering solar?
TheDeuce said:
Discombobulate said:
NS66 said:
Private car so no BIK - I enjoy the EV BIK on my company car :-)
We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
Octopus Intelligent is 10p for 6 hrs every night. That is 80-120 miles a night on 7kW charger and very cheap. And day rate is a bit higher at 41p but average rate for us is way lower than current 34p 24 hr cap. Depends on your use.We migrated to Octopus but currently on 33.7p - no solar panels either.
To me the incentive is just not large enough to make the leap - its was a no brainer on my company car plus can charge at the office with subsidized rates.
With the removal of the grants and the increase in electric costs plus going into the unknown - is EV the future? just not there for me yet.
What's really good is we typically get 8-10 hours a day cheap rate (because of the random extra hours they throw at times of grid power excess) so long as the car is plugged in ready to charge - and during those extra hours everything else using power is cheap too!
d Corner here, but our Octopus Go is still 5p.A mile in our EV costs about 1.2 pence.
NS66 said:
raspy said:
How about reducing emissions from your car usage as an incentive?
We live in a rural / semi rural location - it probably would impact on me more if I lived in a town - not sure I buy into the guilt trip theory however!ashenfie said:
The OP can't have the option to home charge else he would have said that? I
would not recommend anyone purchase as ev unless that could charge at home. Then unless you can get an engery deal no cost savings to be had. From the comparison from fleetnews (see below ) The mini se costs around 56.44p per mile to run and the highest (to get purchase price about the same) spec. 1.5 around 39.79p
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
Your comparisons are screwed up - the petrol is based on 4yrs and the E on 2yrs. would not recommend anyone purchase as ev unless that could charge at home. Then unless you can get an engery deal no cost savings to be had. From the comparison from fleetnews (see below ) The mini se costs around 56.44p per mile to run and the highest (to get purchase price about the same) spec. 1.5 around 39.79p
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/costs/car-running-cost...
Edited by ashenfie on Wednesday 9th November 09:07
On 2yrs the residual on the E looks to be about £4k better than the ICE.
If the OP a an charge at home, they’ll probably never use a public charger. And if their use is low, and EV tariff may not work for them.
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