Who will buy an Ora Funky Cat?
Discussion
OutInTheShed said:
The low price of some cars in China suggests they could be poised to start seriously undercutting european carmakers, but no sign of that here.
The entire long term plan since China set the it securing control of mineral rights, funding hundreds of start-up car companies, bringing European and US manufacturers in to train a work force or be locked out of the market has been to become the largest car exporter on the planet and to dominate global car sales. Cars are just white goods like TVs and fridges to be mass produced by cheap labour and exported. Simultaneously, markets like the US and EU have worked tirelessly to try and keep the products away from their markets via legislative hurdles, taxes and anything they can to slow the inevitable but in reality a market like the EU entered into a competition they could never, ever win and despite the best efforts of governments more and more European manufacturers have had to move the manufacture of their lowest price models to China or are in the process of doing so. A market like Germany can never compete against a true giant such as China. We all learned this 80 years ago when Germany was the largest manufacturer on the planet but within 3 years North America was out supplying goods and on three global fronts. The industrial might of nations such as the US or China are staggering and no European entity or combination of entities can stand in their way.
What's interesting about Britain is that we are now outside of the EU and we don't really make cars, we import them and we really don't care if they're Chinese. All cheap cars are going to be Chinese in twenty years irrespective of whether they have a German or French badge on them. But we're the weak link today as far as Europe is concerned as we are a vital car market but we aren't tied to any nation for cars and can import them from wherever we like.
If British people start to struggle to pay the high monthlies on German cars they would traditionally have switched to French or Japanese. In the past even Russian. This decade they may well open the doors to Chinese cars.
Do I think this Funky Cat is that moment? I don't because it's far too expensive. China make cheap goods and no one objects to that but no sane person is going to rush to pay European badge pricing for something they know deep in their hearts should really cost half as much.
This car smacks of a belief that Brits are total mugs when we know that they're only total mugs when they've got lots of cheap credit. When that goes away they're total tightwads who aren't going to pay silk prices for schmutter goods.
DonkeyApple said:
.....
If British people start to struggle to pay the high monthlies on German cars they would traditionally have switched to French or Japanese. In the past even Russian. This decade they may well open the doors to Chinese cars.
Do I think this Funky Cat is that moment? I don't because it's far too expensive. China make cheap goods and no one objects to that but no sane person is going to rush to pay European badge pricing for something they know deep in their hearts should really cost half as much. .....
I agree.If British people start to struggle to pay the high monthlies on German cars they would traditionally have switched to French or Japanese. In the past even Russian. This decade they may well open the doors to Chinese cars.
Do I think this Funky Cat is that moment? I don't because it's far too expensive. China make cheap goods and no one objects to that but no sane person is going to rush to pay European badge pricing for something they know deep in their hearts should really cost half as much. .....
ISTM China is choosing not to pursue bulk car sales in the the UK at this point.
They can sell cheap and medium price cars at home in big numbers.
They are selling enough MGs here, and they are gaining experience of the market and refining their products.
The UK market is not the Big Prize that the US motorcycle market was in the 60s/70s.
Looking forwards, the big markets are Asia, The Americas, then Europe, but Europe may be not a priority.
People (well old gits anyway) talk about when Japanese motorcycles went form being a cheap commuter option to being a winning product.
Suddenly British bikes looked a bit poor and retreated to being a niche product. Some people think the Chinese will do that with cars, they will suddenly be selling 3/4 of the units, at prices which are very profitable to them, but where the Germans cannot compete. The EU has protectionist tendencies and may keep its 'New Iron Curtain' market to itself.
I think one could put forwards a coherent argument that nearly all new cars should cost about half their current RRPs.
Who in their right mind would buy one of these for £32k??
If it was sub-£20k and available on an attractive PCP deal with no lead time I bet they'd sell loads of them, as it stands I'll be very surprised if they move in any volume.
More broadly, I personally think EVs are waaaaayy too expensive. £50k seems to be the baseline for pretty much an entry level family car/repmobile nowadays which boggles my mind. Maybe it's me.
If it was sub-£20k and available on an attractive PCP deal with no lead time I bet they'd sell loads of them, as it stands I'll be very surprised if they move in any volume.
More broadly, I personally think EVs are waaaaayy too expensive. £50k seems to be the baseline for pretty much an entry level family car/repmobile nowadays which boggles my mind. Maybe it's me.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
bqf said:
I read this morning that the Ora Funky Cat, from Great Wall Motors, goes on sale today.
It's £32,000, has a 193 mile range, and appears to have three Lookers outlets in the West Midlands as it's dealer network.
It comes in 4 primary school crayon colours, and looks like a very odd mash-up of a K12 Micra and a Leaf.
I'm genuinely thinking, and this is rare I think, for a car launch, that there is no-one for whom this car would make any sense whatsoever.
Would anyone buy it?
also Wessex Cribbs Causeway ( the Nissan dealer)It's £32,000, has a 193 mile range, and appears to have three Lookers outlets in the West Midlands as it's dealer network.
It comes in 4 primary school crayon colours, and looks like a very odd mash-up of a K12 Micra and a Leaf.
I'm genuinely thinking, and this is rare I think, for a car launch, that there is no-one for whom this car would make any sense whatsoever.
Would anyone buy it?
Or is it just related to the impending ULEZ zones?
MrBig said:
cc3 said:
Dreadful. And why put more cash into Chinese hands ?
Will you be saying the same to those who buy a Tesla Model 3 now?DonkeyApple said:
We all learned this 80 years ago when Germany was the largest manufacturer on the planet but within 3 years North America was out supplying goods and on three global fronts.
I'm not sure that you are correct on that one - IIRC "The Empire" out produced Germany pretty much for the whole war...DodgyGeezer said:
DonkeyApple said:
We all learned this 80 years ago when Germany was the largest manufacturer on the planet but within 3 years North America was out supplying goods and on three global fronts.
I'm not sure that you are correct on that one - IIRC "The Empire" out produced Germany pretty much for the whole war...The problem that Germany has is that it sees itself as an industrial nation a chemicals and manufacturing power house. To get a message across a river it will build a bridge when others would just send the message by radio.
The solution to every problem is to build a factory.
Now the Empire is long gone so we need to look at the US and China. Two nations that can dwarf anything modern Germany can ever hope to do in the industrial world but also the EU has committed to a more aggressive 2050 policy that will make German manufacturing even less competitive.
I always find this table of US output growth staggering and a reminder of the sort of insurmountable wall a European nation faces in this field:
Table 2: Indices of American Manufacturing Output (1939 = 100)
1940 1941 1942 1943 1944
Aircraft 245 630 1706 2842 2805
Munitions 140 423 2167 3803 2033
Shipbuilding 159 375 1091 1815 1710
Aluminum 126 189 318 561 474
Rubber 109 144 152 202 206
Steel 131 171 190 202 197
What I find interesting about the Funky Cat is that it's clearly an extremely cheap car and I wonder if China are using this car to test the waters to see if U.K. residents impacted by local ULEZ schemes will trade to EV at any cost?
DodgyGeezer said:
well that's an interesting one: your new Tesla could be built in China, it could be built in Berlin or (unilkely) it could be built in the US. Tesla, though, is a US company so whilst you're putting some money into the CCP it's now all going there. I must admit though that I do wonder if it's better to buy a Chinese built Tesla or a Chinese owned Volvo? That aside if is pretty much impossible to not buy some electrical goods with no Chinese componentry/input...
Tesla needing to set up in China in the way that it has and then being able to import into Europe and be processed competitive to their own product manufactured in Europe is a really interesting example of the manufacturing economies of scale that we in Europe can't even begin to compete with. Luckily for the U.K. we pretty much quite that game in the last century so are far less exposed and if anything can take advantage. More and more low level European manufacturing is being moved to China and the process of reimporting it appears underway.
VW will be interesting to watch over the coming years as their MEB platform is likely to see the greatest production numbers in China due to the cost savings and the entry level VW EVs will start to be imported from China.
k me whats going on with that key? Is it a backup battery for an extra 50 miles of range or something? Silvanus said:
williamp said:
Smmt say 42 were registered in October, so I guess dealer demos and cars ready to go. Nothin on autotrader website yet.
Personally, I'm waiting for the Kia-Ora tie up. It wont be for all of us, of course...
that could make for quite a juicy model.Personally, I'm waiting for the Kia-Ora tie up. It wont be for all of us, of course...
Ironic, given the car's name.
I think it’s horrible looking. Apparently the designer worked at Porsche, but there’s some suggestion that it was in the canteen.
As a Mini Electric driver (and fan) I desperately hope it isn’t an indication of the next Mini. Don’t think it will be, as there’s a lot more to a car than it’s skateboard.
As a Mini Electric driver (and fan) I desperately hope it isn’t an indication of the next Mini. Don’t think it will be, as there’s a lot more to a car than it’s skateboard.
Olibol said:
I think it’s horrible looking. Apparently the designer worked at Porsche, but there’s some suggestion that it was in the canteen.
...
There are plenty of fugly cars which people pay lots of money for....
There are also lots of very dull cars which look like all the other dull cars they compete with, and people pay lots of money for those too!
Maybe a car designer who'd had a real job might be a good thing?
Frimley111R said:
Llew said:
If it was sub-£20k and available on an attractive PCP deal with no lead time I bet they'd sell loads of them...
Lol, pretty much 100% of the time a new car is launched it is followed by a comment like this 
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