What they don't tell you about electric cars

[M4cruiser]

J__Wood said:

VeeReihenmotor6 said:

With regard to the costs listed the same can be said for many modern ICE cars...just some examples:

- Many have DSG style gearboxes that could easily cost you £1500-3000
- Turbos could cost you a £1000
- Manual cars with Dual Mass flywheels could cost £1250-1500

Don't forget 'consumable' cam belts ~ £1400 for a genuine belt plus the obligatory new cover, sump, belts, water pump and a day's labour etc.
Transit 2.0 engines with wet belts...

I agree with the above ICE examples.
My thinking is that most informed purchasers already know about these things. It takes a little Googling but is easily found. However, the hidden extra costs of an EV are more difficult to find. You will easily find articles about the absence of cambelts, gearboxes, turbos etc.

[tamore]

TheDeuce said:

Apart from a very occasional work hire van refuelling - which now feels like some sort of neanderthal task... I haven't been to a petrol station in my own car since Sept 2020!

It's blissful, I've been saved the bother of buying something that used to cost a fortune and now my car goes further and faster each year for peanuts.

likewise, filling the work van while standing in a patch of sandy diesel isn't something I look forward to. how the hell do people get diesel all over the filler gun too?

[TheDeuce]

M4cruiser said:

J__Wood said:

VeeReihenmotor6 said:

With regard to the costs listed the same can be said for many modern ICE cars...just some examples:

- Many have DSG style gearboxes that could easily cost you £1500-3000
- Turbos could cost you a £1000
- Manual cars with Dual Mass flywheels could cost £1250-1500

Don't forget 'consumable' cam belts ~ £1400 for a genuine belt plus the obligatory new cover, sump, belts, water pump and a day's labour etc.
Transit 2.0 engines with wet belts...

I agree with the above ICE examples.
My thinking is that most informed purchasers already know about these things. It takes a little Googling but is easily found. However, the hidden extra costs of an EV are more difficult to find. You will easily find articles about the absence of cambelts, gearboxes, turbos etc.

Give it up mate. No one buys an EV thinking nothing can ever break down or go wrong.

Th only thing you've identified that could go wrong and give rise to a big bill is a battery failure - which is the one thing concerning EV's that people already think about and worry about far more than evidence suggests they need to in the first place.

What's your next public service announcement thread going to cover? "Have you considered dental bills if you eat 3 bags of sweets a day"?

[ATG]

monkfish1 said:

Simply not going to happen. Ever. You are applying logic and reason. Thats not how politics works.

The 20mph speed limit in wales, is political. It has no foundation in logic, reason or safety. The emmisions could be up by 10 times. (probably are up by some %) They will not change it back.

Id love to live in the world that you and GT9 inhabit. Must be great.

Except there's plenty of rock solid data backing the policy in Wales. That's an inconvenience to a lot of us who would like to be able to beat up the Labour administration, but the reality is that the policy is reasonable and pretending it isn't is intellectually dishonest and politicians with integrity aren't prepared to be intellectually dishonest. The Welsh Conservatives on the other hand ...

[Alex Z]

monkfish1 said:

Labour are already saying they intend to adopt the welsh 20mph model in england if elected.

Are they? Can you share a link please?

[P.Griffin]

TheDeuce said:

AKjr said:

I charge at work for free or home for buttons and I've a compressor in the garage which I can use for checking tyre pressure. Haven't been to a petrol station since October 23

Apart from a very occasional work hire van refuelling - which now feels like some sort of neanderthal task... I haven't been to a petrol station in my own car since Sept 2020!

It's blissful, I've been saved the bother of buying something that used to cost a fortune and now my car goes further and faster each year for peanuts.

I'm sure the masses, who don't have a garage, access to chargers or the funds to buy a new EV will be delighted for you both. This tax payers subsidised sense of entitlement is nauseating.

[Nomme de Plum]

P.Griffin said:

I'm sure the masses, who don't have a garage, access to chargers or the funds to buy a new EV will be delighted for you both. This tax payers subsidised sense of entitlement is nauseating.

Why should anyone be entitled to a new car?. There are 1.9 New car sales annually but a further 5.4M used car trades. As a private buyer i buy used.

What is a 'subsidised sense of entitlement"?

[P.Griffin]

Nomme de Plum said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm sure the masses, who don't have a garage, access to chargers or the funds to buy a new EV will be delighted for you both. This tax payers subsidised sense of entitlement is nauseating.

Why should anyone be entitled to a new car?. There are 1.9 New car sales annually but a further 5.4M used car trades. As a private buyer i buy used.

What is a 'subsidised sense of entitlement"?

Most EVs are purchased via companies or salary sacrifice. That is subsidised by the taxpayer.

You'll disagree of course because you are one of the EV Extremists, but this is an opinion.

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/studentviews-...

[TheDeuce]

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

AKjr said:

I charge at work for free or home for buttons and I've a compressor in the garage which I can use for checking tyre pressure. Haven't been to a petrol station since October 23

Apart from a very occasional work hire van refuelling - which now feels like some sort of neanderthal task... I haven't been to a petrol station in my own car since Sept 2020!

It's blissful, I've been saved the bother of buying something that used to cost a fortune and now my car goes further and faster each year for peanuts.

I'm sure the masses, who don't have a garage, access to chargers or the funds to buy a new EV will be delighted for you both. This tax payers subsidised sense of entitlement is nauseating.

Why should the masses be able to afford anything like a new car?

The masses (those that actually wish to or can drive) do however generally have the ability to charge at home. There is a minority that cannot and there's no rush for those people to adopt EV until such time as local charging solutions are in place.

Why do we have to wait for everyone to have something before pointing out the benefits of that thing!?

As for tax, the group who is getting low BIK incentives to take an electric company car are typically a group already paying quite a lot of tax. The incentives are there to get new cars on the road so that they can become affordable down the line for 'everyone'. All of our behaviour and purchase decisions are to a degree motivated by targeted taxation, yourself included.

[Nomme de Plum]

P.Griffin said:

Nomme de Plum said:

P.Griffin said:

I'm sure the masses, who don't have a garage, access to chargers or the funds to buy a new EV will be delighted for you both. This tax payers subsidised sense of entitlement is nauseating.

Why should anyone be entitled to a new car?. There are 1.9 New car sales annually but a further 5.4M used car trades. As a private buyer i buy used.

What is a 'subsidised sense of entitlement"?

Most EVs are purchased via companies or salary sacrifice. That is subsidised by the taxpayer.

You'll disagree of course because you are one of the EV Extremists, but this is an opinion.

https://www.economicsobservatory.com/studentviews-...

I'm not disagreeing. I'm quite content with subsidising new EV purchasing although I'm disappointed that it is not extended to private buyers now the grant has been withdrawn. This change is necessary for all of the reasons that have been clearly evidenced. This actual tax break is insignificant compared to the tax breaks the fossil fuel industry has been receiving for decades.

I'm a private buyer with a used EV. The decision was made for sound economic reasons. My maintenance costs are much reduced, my insurance reduced and my travel costs are less than 3p per mile. The car itself is plenty fast enough and acceleration within legal limits impressive and it is a very pleasant quiet environment in which to travel. It's not an SuV Btw.

I will accept that it will be post 2030 before enough used EVs become available to give a good choice for everyone.

No idea why you are posting an article well over a year old.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Wednesday 13th March 09:34

[P.Griffin]

Nomme de Plum said:

No idea why you are posting an article well over a year old.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Wednesday 13th March 09:34

My apologies. I assume because it is over a year old, you suggest the points made are irrelevant? What timeframe should one adhere to in the future?

[P.Griffin]

TheDeuce said:

Why should the masses be able to afford anything like a new car?

Well said that man. How dare they. No entitlement here thank you very much.

Volkswagen anyone?

[TheDeuce]

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

Why should the masses be able to afford anything like a new car?

Well said that man. How dare they. No entitlement here thank you very much.

Volkswagen anyone?

I'm sorry but it is entitled to think 'everyone' should be able to afford a new car, in this instance a new car technology.

It's a daft expectation and it shows zero commercial understanding, an understanding of capitalism in fact.

[freakybacon]

Renault Zoe having a few problems here.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/mar/12/rena...

[TheDeuce]

freakybacon said:

Renault Zoe having a few problems here.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/mar/12/rena...

That's just normal isn't it? Sometimes a used car has an out of warranty failure that kills it. It happened to be when I bought a used honda accord and the auto box failed.

I've owned seven used cars and it's the only such example though, so not really a 'problem', just a fact of life. Be lucky...

Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 13th March 10:36

[tamore]

cleevely must be raking it in. bet they could sort this for a fraction of the price and more places like them will pop up as EV uptake increases. OEMs shooting themselves in the foot…… again.

[M4cruiser]

TheDeuce said:

freakybacon said:

Renault Zoe having a few problems here.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2024/mar/12/rena...

That's just normal isn't it? Sometimes a used car has an out of warranty failure that kills it. It happened to be when I bought a used honda accord and the auto box failed.

I've owned seven used cars and it's the only such example though, so not really a 'problem', just a fact of life. Be lucky...

Edited by TheDeuce on Wednesday 13th March 10:36

It will take time for the relative volumes of faults like this to be established. Yes, petrol cars have problems too, but the ability to apply a workaround is more easily understood. On my old petrol car the "charging socket" failed, i.e. the petrol filler pipe rusted through and failed the MoT. The garage were able to source a similar replacement (even though it wasn't the official part). In fact any metal pipe could have been fabricated into the right shape. That same garage won't work on HV systems.

[G-wiz]

What Car exposing 'unrepresentative' electric car ranges:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/inaccuracy-of-officia...

[eldar]

M4cruiser said:

It will take time for the relative volumes of faults like this to be established. Yes, petrol cars have problems too, but the ability to apply a workaround is more easily understood. On my old petrol car the "charging socket" failed, i.e. the petrol filler pipe rusted through and failed the MoT. The garage were able to source a similar replacement (even though it wasn't the official part). In fact any metal pipe could have been fabricated into the right shape. That same garage won't work on HV systems.

If there is a market, it will be served. There is no magic in an EV charging system. They are no more complex than ECU controlled injection, autoboxes or ignition.

Would you expect an EV specialist to fix the rusty bits on a old IC car?

[otolith]

Standard regulatory emissions/consumption testing in unrealistic shocker... It's always been unrealistic. It's unrealistic for ICEs and for EVs. The drive cycle is not representative of the way that cars are used in the real world.