What they don't tell you about electric cars

[timberman]

stumpage said:

TheDeuce said:

So say a range of ~225 miles this time of year (I have the same car, same wheels), to make the hospital trip you only need to add about 190 miles of range - I typically pay around 70p on the occasions I use rapid chargers at service stations, assuming miles per kwh of 3.5, that's about £38. The diesel would cost more on the same length journey and obviously be nowhere near as nice to drive or sit in as your M50...

You don't really need to plan where to stop these days, it's impossible to exceed the range of your car in the UK without driving past or very near to rapid chargers. I guess there is an argument that you don't need to stop at all in the diesel but... given the number of hours driving I would think you'd want a snack and toilet break anyway.

To answer your closing question, when I got my first EV the charger network wasn't half as good as it is now, but even then, after a couple of long journeys I stopped stressing about it. These days it's so easy that it takes next to no thought at all - but I fully understand that if you're new to EV it's going to feel alien for a while regardless.

Nice car by the way

That’s what I wanted to here. I reckon a full charge leaving the house. Top up at the new charging place on the M5 near Exeter on to Torquay and the same stop on the way back.

I have the same car, also on 20" wheels

If you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),

anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,

along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way

if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers

once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,

there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required

feel free to ask if you have any questions

[stumpage]

timberman said:

I have the same car, also on 20" wheels

If you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),

anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,

along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way

if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers

once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,

there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required

feel free to ask if you have any questions

Great info. Cheers

[TheDeuce]

timberman said:

I have the same car, also on 20" wheels

Turns out i4 M50's are very common, especially with 20" wheels

Got to say, mine has been so easy to live with so far. All the tech just.. works. Everything laid out sensibly and a stupidly comfy ride if you're not in sport.

I got quite a bit of criticism for ordering the 20" sport rims on here, due to the range drop - but if I'm sensible it'll do 250 miles most of the year, which I have found is quite simply 'enough'. The benefit of the big fat rubber is definitely worth whatever the true range drop is, the car just bites and goes, feels like it will hang on in turns at speeds well beyond those which would ever be sensible on the road too. All in all, an excellent first attempt at a mainstream EV from BMW.

(I'm only not counting the i3 as mainstream as they lost money on each one and production numbers were fairly limited)

[Diderot]

stumpage said:

timberman said:

I have the same car, also on 20" wheels

If you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),

anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,

along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way

if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers

once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,

there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required

feel free to ask if you have any questions

Great info. Cheers

MOTO Exeter M5 there are tons of rapids now. 20 plus Gridserves IiIRC, and loads of Tesla Superchargers.

[timberman]

TheDeuce said:

timberman said:

I have the same car, also on 20" wheels

Turns out i4 M50's are very common, especially with 20" wheels

Got to say, mine has been so easy to live with so far. All the tech just.. works. Everything laid out sensibly and a stupidly comfy ride if you're not in sport.

I got quite a bit of criticism for ordering the 20" sport rims on here, due to the range drop - but if I'm sensible it'll do 250 miles most of the year, which I have found is quite simply 'enough'. The benefit of the big fat rubber is definitely worth whatever the true range drop is, the car just bites and goes, feels like it will hang on in turns at speeds well beyond those which would ever be sensible on the road too. All in all, an excellent first attempt at a mainstream EV from BMW.

(I'm only not counting the i3 as mainstream as they lost money on each one and production numbers were fairly limited)

Must admit I was a bit unsure about the 20"'s due to the range hit, but even in colder weather I can get close to 3 miles per kwh and I much prefer the look of the car with them,
I'm sure 250 miles plus range should be easy to achieve once it warms up a bit more,

biggest issue for me is bloody potholes, I now have an increased hatred for them and have become extremely precious over trying to avoid any damage to the expensive rims which is a challenge with some the roads around us being in a pretty poor state,

It's a brilliant car though and very easy to live with,
I pretty much drive everywhere in B mode which I feel is just about right and not too aggressive so I barely ever need to use the brakes,

I do like the tech, mine has most of the options, I've even got the laser lights which I've found quite useful on our dark country lanes at night, I quite like the way they move around lighting up the road and avoiding dazzling people, they obviously work because I've never been flashed by anyone coming towards me,

I think I've only put it in sport a couple of times, most of the time it's either in comfort or eco pro and still accelerates hard enough to take your breath away,

overtaking slow moving traffic is a breeze
it's just necessary to avoid the risk of ramming whatever's in front by not pressing the accelerator till you've started to pass, and then trying to avoid going well over the speed limit, but otherwise it's never takes more than a couple of seconds and it's over,

It's also working out a fair bit cheaper to run than our last car despite having nearly 3 times the power so it's a win win so far

[TheDeuce]

timberman said:

TheDeuce said:

timberman said:

I have the same car, also on 20" wheels

Turns out i4 M50's are very common, especially with 20" wheels

Got to say, mine has been so easy to live with so far. All the tech just.. works. Everything laid out sensibly and a stupidly comfy ride if you're not in sport.

I got quite a bit of criticism for ordering the 20" sport rims on here, due to the range drop - but if I'm sensible it'll do 250 miles most of the year, which I have found is quite simply 'enough'. The benefit of the big fat rubber is definitely worth whatever the true range drop is, the car just bites and goes, feels like it will hang on in turns at speeds well beyond those which would ever be sensible on the road too. All in all, an excellent first attempt at a mainstream EV from BMW.

(I'm only not counting the i3 as mainstream as they lost money on each one and production numbers were fairly limited)

Must admit I was a bit unsure about the 20"'s due to the range hit, but even in colder weather I can get close to 3 miles per kwh and I much prefer the look of the car with them,
I'm sure 250 miles plus range should be easy to achieve once it warms up a bit more,

biggest issue for me is bloody potholes, I now have an increased hatred for them and have become extremely precious over trying to avoid any damage to the expensive rims which is a challenge with some the roads around us being in a pretty poor state,

It's a brilliant car though and very easy to live with,
I pretty much drive everywhere in B mode which I feel is just about right and not too aggressive so I barely ever need to use the brakes,

I do like the tech, mine has most of the options, I've even got the laser lights which I've found quite useful on our dark country lanes at night, I quite like the way they move around lighting up the road and avoiding dazzling people, they obviously work because I've never been flashed by anyone coming towards me,

I think I've only put it in sport a couple of times, most of the time it's either in comfort or eco pro and still accelerates hard enough to take your breath away,

overtaking slow moving traffic is a breeze
it's just necessary to avoid the risk of ramming whatever's in front by not pressing the accelerator till you've started to pass, and then trying to avoid going well over the speed limit, but otherwise it's never takes more than a couple of seconds and it's over,

It's also working out a fair bit cheaper to run than our last car despite having nearly 3 times the power so it's a win win so far

Heavy EV's are not fans of potholes! My old iPace had 22" rims and I did actually lose a tyre to a pothole... Although in fairness I chalk that up to potholes not being fixed more than an inherent EV issue...

I drive mine in eco 90% of the time, it's just too immediate in lurching forward, even in comfort sometimes.

Absolutely love the over taking prowess of the car, I completely agree you need to be VERY careful to prepare to steer around the, errr... 'victim' ahead of doing so - and then you're past in a heartbeat = safe and satisfying. The only reason I describe the overtakee as a victim is that it must be quite shocking to have the car you were smugly holding up at 38mph on an unrestricted road suddenly, silently, warp from behind you to 50 yards ahead of you

Sport Boost mode is only for warm dry days on roads I know very well and with good sighting. It's borderline insane that such ferocity is permitted on the open road and with a standard license. Still, it's nice to know the car has the capacity to perform that way..

[P.Griffin]

P.Griffin said:

Nomme de Plum said:

P.Griffin said:

My apologies if this has already been posted, but I stumbled across this on my internet travels today. I have tried to argue some of the points made here, mainly that I don't believe that 100% EV is the future. The EV extremists (you know who you are) usually dismiss these opinions as nothing more than anti EV propaganda. Clearly I don't have the same audience, carry his gravitas or present my opinions in such a measured way as Harry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw

When you watch a video like this do you never bother to question the contents and analyse what you are being shown. For instance when the two cost pages are flashed up did you not wonder why they were on screen for such little time or not even side by side. That's how proper analysis is done.

Then equalisation is carried out to ensure true like for like comparison.

Your very words show an inbuilt prejudice. Not a good place to start.

You should try to remember those of us that now drive EVs as our normal daily form of personal transport will have had ICEs previously. In my case in excess of 20 over 50 years including 2 Lotuses 3 TVRs a couple of Gtis and normal family cars.

Good morning all. I am not prejudiced for a start. EV does have a place, and hopefully the technology will improve to the point where it's shortcomings are eliminated or reduced to the point where it is a viable solution for MOST of the population. What I take issue with is the governments mismanagement of the situation. We shouldn't be surprised, but it appears the tax payer is subsidising the better off in society, along with foreign manufacturers. I'm not saying it should just yet, but if EV has to stand on it's own 2 feet where would it be? Would it perhaps be better to incentivise lower weight and efficiency and maybe UK technology rather than ever more powerful and heavy cars?

You call me prejudiced because I use the term EV extremist...these people are most likely the very same people who are the major financial beneficiaries of tax payers subsidies who would probably never purchase an EV as a private buyer. This doesn't sit right with me.

[740EVTORQUES]

If someone called you a hydrocarbon Luddite would you think they had a neutral standpoint?

Really your post is little better than one of the many ‘just asking the question’ or ‘my cat’s brothers plumber told me that.,’ type of trolling.

Its really boring.

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 21st March 08:42

[Nomme de Plum]

P.Griffin said:

Good morning all. I am not prejudiced for a start. EV does have a place, and hopefully the technology will improve to the point where it's shortcomings are eliminated or reduced to the point where it is a viable solution for MOST of the population. What I take issue with is the governments mismanagement of the situation. We shouldn't be surprised, but it appears the tax payer is subsidising the better off in society, along with foreign manufacturers. I'm not saying it should just yet, but if EV has to stand on it's own 2 feet where would it be? Would it perhaps be better to incentivise lower weight and efficiency and maybe UK technology rather than ever more powerful and heavy cars?

It makes total sense to subsidise a technology that will reduce substantially the levels of CO2 a car produces in its lifetime. Furthermore it removes Nox which for our cities will see essential improvements. I do not consider this mismanagement however the mixed messages of removing the grant, changing the date and introduction of annual vehicle tax definitely was.

EVs are about to see the imposition of Vehicle Tax which in my opinion is too soon but understand that would be necessary at some point.

The first cars I drove weighed in at less than 800kg now a BMW 3 or 4 series is 1500-18000 kg and SuVs typically see weights starting at 1600Kg and up to 2,500kg. These are all ICEs. There was never any call for weight based tax before the advent of EVs so why the change now?

It is HGVs and trucks that do the vast majority of road ware damage.

My i3s weights about 1360 kg btw and a Tesla 3 weighs the same as a BMW M4, circa 1750kg.

We are still giving very significant tax allowances to fossil fuel companies for exploration, exploitation of fossil fuels which they sell on the global market with no preferential supply or cost to the UK.

I, along with most of my friends are private buyers with no tax breaks.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 21st March 08:28

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 21st March 08:29

[TheDeuce]

Of course I would buy/lease one without the subsidy. It's cheaper to access string performance in an EV and frankly I don't want to go back to ICE, which now feels crude by comparison - because it is. That's not a snipe at ICE, it's factual.

My current EV minus subsidisies would be no more than the ICE + fuel cost of previous fast cars I've owned.

The only reason the tax savings are particularly significant for an individual is if that person is at an income level where they're already paying above average tax into the system one way or another. The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

[TheDeuce]

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

Of course I would buy/lease one without the subsidy. It's cheaper to access string performance in an EV and frankly I don't want to go back to ICE, which now feels crude by comparison - because it is. That's not a snipe at ICE, it's factual.

My current EV minus subsidisies would be no more than the ICE + fuel cost of previous fast cars I've owned.

The only reason the tax savings are particularly significant for an individual is if that person is at an income level where they're already paying above average tax into the system one way or another. The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

You even paraphrase something I have never said. This sums up your blinkered attitude. I referred to ALL taxpayers, not the poor.

I didn't even quote you...

I was making my own comments regarding the justification of and common opposition to the subsidies.

What part suggests I'm blinkered? Do the red tops not raise headlines about 'taxing the poor'?

[eldar]

Nomme de Plum said:

The first cars I drove weighed in at less than 800kg now a BMW 3 or 4 series is 1500-18000 kg and SuVs typically see weights starting at 1600Kg and up to 2,500kg. These are all ICEs. There was never any call for weight based tax before the advent of EVs so why the change now?

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 21st March 08:28

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 21st March 08:29

Getting chubby rapidly, these BMWs

[P.Griffin]

TheDeuce said:

The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

You even quote (yes, actually using quotation marks), something I have never said, such is the nature of a zealot.

[TheDeuce]

eldar said:

Getting chubby rapidly, these BMWs

About to get lighter though, apparently. The incoming new dedicated EV platform should see a weight reduction.

Of course, new toys/safety/tech could erase that saving... As has been the way for decades.

[TheDeuce]

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

You even quote (yes, actually using quotation marks), something I have never said, such is the nature of a zealot.

I didn't quote you once, I quoted a common held view. I agree I quoted something you didn't say, because my post was not aimed at a conversation specifically with you

[GT9]

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

You even quote (yes, actually using quotation marks), something I have never said, such is the nature of a zealot.

Single quotation marks indicate a paraphrase, double quotation marks indicate a verbatim quote.

[TheDeuce]

GT9 said:

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

You even quote (yes, actually using quotation marks), something I have never said, such is the nature of a zealot.

Single quotation marks indicate a paraphrase, double quotation marks indicate a verbatim quote.

Don't complicate the concept of me not quoting him further, I think the limit of understanding has already been exceeded

[P.Griffin]

TheDeuce said:

GT9 said:

P.Griffin said:

TheDeuce said:

The 'poor paying for the wealthy' argument is nonsense.

You even quote (yes, actually using quotation marks), something I have never said, such is the nature of a zealot.

Single quotation marks indicate a paraphrase, double quotation marks indicate a verbatim quote.

Don't complicate the concept of me not quoting him further, I think the limit of understanding has already been exceeded

I guess it's the same difference between the 1 and 2 fingered salute...they mean more or less the same thing.

[PSRG]

stumpage said:

I have had my EV for a week and have to go to visit a relative in hospital. I means a round trip of 414 miles in a day which I will share driving with my wife the car has a range of 250 on a good day according to reviews (i4 M50 on 20" wheels).

So last night I thought to myself I want to take the new car on a nice long drive (Hertfordshire to Devon and back) so started to plan my journey trying to look where I would need to stop to charge etc. Then saw the prices for charging at rapid chargers, not cheap!!! Now I'm thinking, forget it I'm just taking our Diesel Kodiaq. No fuss and planing needed. How soon after having these EVs does your mindset change?

Anyway the point I wish I'd have be told about the high cost of charging when out and about and how much you have to plan. Or am I doing this all wrong?

I've had an i5 eDrive 40 for 3 months so far and have made >400 mile round trips in a day quite a few times. Now, my car is only on 19" wheels and obviously has less power/one motor, but it easily manges the trip with just one stop along the way driving relatively normally (ie the same speed as I'd drive a diesel / petrol car). Apart from the first time I don't bother planning - the car suggests where to stop and for how long, and if you use the BMW chargecard you'll get preferential rates at BPl/Ionity. You can set it to set it to prioritse those if you like, though I don't bother now as fast charging forms such a small part of my overall charging ( <10%) that almost whatever the price it makes negligible difference to the overall average cost / mile. Though I accept that is a mindset shift from looking at the cost journey by journey!

[WestyCarl]

PSRG said:

I've had an i5 eDrive 40 for 3 months so far and have made >400 mile round trips in a day quite a few times. Now, my car is only on 19" wheels and obviously has less power/one motor, but it easily manges the trip with just one stop along the way driving relatively normally (ie the same speed as I'd drive a diesel / petrol car). Apart from the first time I don't bother planning - the car suggests where to stop and for how long, and if you use the BMW chargecard you'll get preferential rates at BPl/Ionity. You can set it to set it to prioritse those if you like, though I don't bother now as fast charging forms such a small part of my overall charging ( <10%) that almost whatever the price it makes negligible difference to the overall average cost / mile. Though I accept that is a mindset shift from looking at the cost journey by journey!

I've just ordered one of these (coming from a Model 3LR), what sort of range are you getting from a single charge, reading the internet it should be anywhere between 250-300?