What they don't tell you about electric cars
Discussion
WestyCarl said:
I've just ordered one of these (coming from a Model 3LR), what sort of range are you getting from a single charge, reading the internet it should be anywhere between 250-300?
Sounds about right, but I have only had mine 3 (winter) months. I reckon around 75% of my driving has been A road / dual carriageway / motorway, and I tend to set the cruise at 75 mph. I use the adaptive regen mode all the time, which is brilliant from usability perspective, and I reliably get 270/280 miles range, unless its very wet which does knock 10 or 20 miles off that. The last couple of week, which have been milder, have shown a range of 290/300 miles so maybe it will improve a little further. I find the absolute range slightly worse than the Tesla M3 LR I had for a few months (may 20/30 miles), and of course the battery in the BMW is around 10% larger. But the BMW is also a much larger car!PSRG said:
Sounds about right, but I have only had mine 3 (winter) months. I reckon around 75% of my driving has been A road / dual carriageway / motorway, and I tend to set the cruise at 75 mph. I use the adaptive regen mode all the time, which is brilliant from usability perspective, and I reliably get 270/280 miles range, unless its very wet which does knock 10 or 20 miles off that. The last couple of week, which have been milder, have shown a range of 290/300 miles so maybe it will improve a little further. I find the absolute range slightly worse than the Tesla M3 LR I had for a few months (may 20/30 miles), and of course the battery in the BMW is around 10% larger. But the BMW is also a much larger car!
If it's anything like our EVs, then you probably will find the range improving further still as it gets warmer - I recall 25-30C seemed to be about the optimal temp for rangePSRG said:
Sounds about right, but I have only had mine 3 (winter) months. I reckon around 75% of my driving has been A road / dual carriageway / motorway, and I tend to set the cruise at 75 mph. I use the adaptive regen mode all the time, which is brilliant from usability perspective, and I reliably get 270/280 miles range, unless its very wet which does knock 10 or 20 miles off that. The last couple of week, which have been milder, have shown a range of 290/300 miles so maybe it will improve a little further. I find the absolute range slightly worse than the Tesla M3 LR I had for a few months (may 20/30 miles), and of course the battery in the BMW is around 10% larger. But the BMW is also a much larger car!
Thanks, I think it'll be a big change form the Tesla.IMHO in terms of getting mass EV adoption of the most environmentally sound vehicles, while at the same time supporting their own economy, it feels like we could learn a thing or two from the French. Shame we don't have much of an EV industry to support (certainly nothing you'd consider mass market).
https://www.electrive.com/2024/02/13/france-suspen...
https://www.electrive.com/2024/02/13/france-suspen...
Edited by P.Griffin on Friday 22 March 11:32
stumpage said:
timberman said:
I have the same car, also on 20" wheels
If you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),
anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,
along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way
if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers
once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,
there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required
feel free to ask if you have any questions
Great info. CheersIf you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),
anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,
along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way
if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers
once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,
there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required
feel free to ask if you have any questions
fatjon said:
Range would be less of a problem if we were not paying 70p plus per KWh. At that price it’s genuinely (in purely fuel terms) cheaper to run a 5.0 petrol mustang than an electric one.
A 5.0 Mustang will get something like 23mpg. At £6.58 a gallon that's 28.5ppm. A Mustang-E would have to achieve 2.5 miles/Kw.
fatjon said:
That’s about what they do isn’t it?
“ The Mach-E’s 84 MPGe, using 33.705 kilowatt-hours per gallon, converts to 2.49 miles per kwh”
My EV6 GT gets 2-3 miles/kwh on a good day. Its predecessor a non GT version rarely topped 3.8
In winter the figures are at the bottom end of that range.
So about the same, except that if you can charge at home for the first 'tank' it makes it cheaper.“ The Mach-E’s 84 MPGe, using 33.705 kilowatt-hours per gallon, converts to 2.49 miles per kwh”
My EV6 GT gets 2-3 miles/kwh on a good day. Its predecessor a non GT version rarely topped 3.8
In winter the figures are at the bottom end of that range.
If I was paying 70pp/Kw all of the time, I'd have the 5.0 V8
Maracus said:
fatjon said:
That’s about what they do isn’t it?
“ The Mach-E’s 84 MPGe, using 33.705 kilowatt-hours per gallon, converts to 2.49 miles per kwh”
My EV6 GT gets 2-3 miles/kwh on a good day. Its predecessor a non GT version rarely topped 3.8
In winter the figures are at the bottom end of that range.
So about the same, except that if you can charge at home for the first 'tank' it makes it cheaper.“ The Mach-E’s 84 MPGe, using 33.705 kilowatt-hours per gallon, converts to 2.49 miles per kwh”
My EV6 GT gets 2-3 miles/kwh on a good day. Its predecessor a non GT version rarely topped 3.8
In winter the figures are at the bottom end of that range.
If I was paying 70pp/Kw all of the time, I'd have the 5.0 V8
eldar said:
Nomme de Plum said:
The mirror has to be created and is not fixed but motorised in both axis. It then has driver controls somewhere in the cockpit. It sits in a fairly large shell and fixed to the car.
A camera could easily be cheaper as no movement is necessary as this can be within the electronics and the fixing smaller more straightforward.
Motorised, lhd/RHD, heated, left or right, straight or convex lens, electric folding, warning notice or not, which language, body colour or not and of course spider installation. Thousands of possible combinations, each car specific. And the complications of spares and repairs stockholding.A camera could easily be cheaper as no movement is necessary as this can be within the electronics and the fixing smaller more straightforward.
Camera and screen, generic and software controlled. Probably 15% of the cost of traditional mirrors.
A change in focus and the reversing camera replaces the main rear view instantly. Why can you not have the rear parking camera on by the way when you are driving? Or do some cars allow this?
fatjon said:
Me too if I was totally reliant on public charging. The point I was making is that there are people so numerically challenged that they can’t do the maths and realise that no home charger = 5.0 mustang fuel bills on an EV so they end up in trouble. The ones that can do the sums will not buy one unless they can home charge and an awful lot of people can’t. That is killing sales of EVs.
People are so numeracy challenged that they don't realise the odd expensive public charger use hardly figures in their annual motoring costs.I'm sure there are some people who'd have an EV 'if only they could charge at home' but there is a very fat slice of the new car market who could charge at home but still choose a petrol car. I think that will change when good new EVs are noticeably less per month on the never-never than 'equivalent' petrol cars. I think that point is closer than many people realise.
The_Burg said:
eldar said:
Nomme de Plum said:
The mirror has to be created and is not fixed but motorised in both axis. It then has driver controls somewhere in the cockpit. It sits in a fairly large shell and fixed to the car.
A camera could easily be cheaper as no movement is necessary as this can be within the electronics and the fixing smaller more straightforward.
Motorised, lhd/RHD, heated, left or right, straight or convex lens, electric folding, warning notice or not, which language, body colour or not and of course spider installation. Thousands of possible combinations, each car specific. And the complications of spares and repairs stockholding.A camera could easily be cheaper as no movement is necessary as this can be within the electronics and the fixing smaller more straightforward.
Camera and screen, generic and software controlled. Probably 15% of the cost of traditional mirrors.
A change in focus and the reversing camera replaces the main rear view instantly. Why can you not have the rear parking camera on by the way when you are driving? Or do some cars allow this?
Really for a fully immersive view you need head tracking to make the view change as you move your head. This is very possible and even the cheapest VR headsets do this with Sim racing programmes. But fixed cameras with an unchanging view would seem very Uncanny Valley IMHO.
The hardware/ software coudl also double up as an attention monitor and (for example) detect when people are not paying attention or looking down at phones etc
OutInTheShed said:
fatjon said:
Me too if I was totally reliant on public charging. The point I was making is that there are people so numerically challenged that they can’t do the maths and realise that no home charger = 5.0 mustang fuel bills on an EV so they end up in trouble. The ones that can do the sums will not buy one unless they can home charge and an awful lot of people can’t. That is killing sales of EVs.
People are so numeracy challenged that they don't realise the odd expensive public charger use hardly figures in their annual motoring costs.I'm sure there are some people who'd have an EV 'if only they could charge at home' but there is a very fat slice of the new car market who could charge at home but still choose a petrol car. I think that will change when good new EVs are noticeably less per month on the never-never than 'equivalent' petrol cars. I think that point is closer than many people realise.
The various chinese and korean cars hitting the market now are clearly looking to bring down the price of the cars for the sake of establishing dominant market share, we could easily see £20k 'fully loaded' family EV's with a 250 mile range in a few years time. That would put an EV into the sightlines of pretty much anyone of a wealth level sufficient to buy/lease a new car.
At that point a % of the more vocal ICE die-hards will be persuaded and then they'll suddenly become just as vocal about how surprisingly good their new EV is! That's the point at which the pub b
ks talked about EV's will subside and sales will probably ramp up quite significantly. All such transitions tend to have a slow and stubborn start, there needs to be a certain number of happy adopters before the masses start to look at what's being offered with less bias/fear.I myself have directly contributed to two friends conversion to EV, the only reason they considered it seriously in the first place is because they'd been out in mine and of course, as friends they were able to ask me about all the aspects of EV ownership that concerned them - once equipped with some knowledge and experience that they could trust, the decision to get an EV was fairly straight-forward, it just made sense. It's amazing how many questions they asked me ahead of actually getting one though! Public knowledge of EV ownership and lifestyle is actually very poor and heavily distorted by Daily Fail 'horror stories' etc.
stumpage said:
stumpage said:
timberman said:
I have the same car, also on 20" wheels
If you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),
anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,
along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way
if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers
once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,
there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required
feel free to ask if you have any questions
Great info. CheersIf you're travelling via the A303 (I'm assuming you are if heading from Hertfordshire to Torquay) you'll be passing very close to us (we live in Somerset very close to the A303 near Yeovil),
anyway, we travel to Exeter quite a bit as well as occasionally to Torquay and there are plenty of chargers available on route so I'm sure you won't have any issues getting there and back,
along the A303 there are quite a few McDonalds outlets with Instavolt chargers (pricey but Rapid) and there are also plenty of other chargers along the route without needing to take any kind of detour along the way
if you want a rapid Instavolt charger but don't fancy McDonalds, there's a place not far from Honiton called Route Restaurant 303 or something that seems to be popular with Ev'ers
once you reach the M5 there are a number of chargers around Exeter,
there is also an IKEA off the M5 just down from where you would join it that has a few chargers and more around Torquay if required
feel free to ask if you have any questions
it's a pity you didn't , I'm sure you would have made the journey without issue,
maybe try when it's warmer and your range has improved
we headed up to our other house on Friday and it was the 1st time we had an issue with charging,
it's approx a 500 mile round trip including a bit of running around while we're there and we usually just charge up at McDonalds on the way there and again on the way back,
we decided to change tack this time and stop off at Stratford upon Avon for a while so we could stretch our legs and charge up the battery,
unfortunately the 1st charger we tried wouldn't work, the next required us downloading yet another app which I had no interest in doing, and the third wasn't actually open to the public apart from weekends,
so after driving around a very congested Stratford for the best part of an hour we gave in and headed to McDonalds again
I could have avoided this with a bit of forward planning but decided to wing it and hope Waze would find what we need,
It was a minor annoyance really and not one I plan to repeat again any time soon.
JordonTucker said:
EVs can be cheaper to run than regular petrol cars. For instance, if you switch to a used electric car like a Nissan Leaf or a Renault Zoe, you can save money on things like road tax, fuel, and oil changes. But, if something breaks, like the battery, it can be really expensive to fix, sometimes more than £3,000.
like a turbo going pop, or timing belt snapping?JordonTucker said:
EVs can be cheaper to run than regular petrol cars. For instance, if you switch to a used electric car like a Nissan Leaf or a Renault Zoe, you can save money on things like road tax, fuel, and oil changes. But, if something breaks, like the battery, it can be really expensive to fix, sometimes more than £3,000.
Yep - but the number of things likely to need fixing are less, and we need more time and data to work out the average lifetime cost.Even so, unless the average lifetime repair cost of EV's proves to absolutely dwarf that of ICE, the ~£2k or whatever the average driver will save each year in running costs is going to more than offset whatever difference there may be.
At the end of the day, EV's are far simpler and more efficient machines, it follows that they will prove to cost less for the same useage. As do digital cameras over film, Spotify over CD's, lightbulbs over cameras etc etc.
TheDeuce said:
Yep - but the number of things likely to need fixing are less, and we need more time and data to work out the average lifetime cost.
Even so, unless the average lifetime repair cost of EV's proves to absolutely dwarf that of ICE, the ~£2k or whatever the average driver will save each year in running costs is going to more than offset whatever difference there may be.
At the end of the day, EV's are far simpler and more efficient machines, it follows that they will prove to cost less for the same useage. As do digital cameras over film, Spotify over CD's, lightbulbs over cameras etc etc.
was nodding to all of that, then got to 'lightbulbs over cameras'. was that after the last swig of sherry for the night? Even so, unless the average lifetime repair cost of EV's proves to absolutely dwarf that of ICE, the ~£2k or whatever the average driver will save each year in running costs is going to more than offset whatever difference there may be.
At the end of the day, EV's are far simpler and more efficient machines, it follows that they will prove to cost less for the same useage. As do digital cameras over film, Spotify over CD's, lightbulbs over cameras etc etc.
What do EV owners do if they visit or stay over at friends houses?
We had friends overnight once and they asked to plug their electric Volvo in overnight in order to be able to continue their journey the next day. Next morning the extension cable was warm to the touch and the plug and socket were hot.
After they left it struck me as odd that they didn’t offer any money for the obvious amount if electricity they had gained and I wondered when I go to stay with them next whether I should ask them to fill my car with petrol at their cost
A genuine question though - what is the etiquette here?
We had friends overnight once and they asked to plug their electric Volvo in overnight in order to be able to continue their journey the next day. Next morning the extension cable was warm to the touch and the plug and socket were hot.
After they left it struck me as odd that they didn’t offer any money for the obvious amount if electricity they had gained and I wondered when I go to stay with them next whether I should ask them to fill my car with petrol at their cost
A genuine question though - what is the etiquette here?
McGee_22 said:
What do EV owners do if they visit or stay over at friends houses?
We had friends overnight once and they asked to plug their electric Volvo in overnight in order to be able to continue their journey the next day. Next morning the extension cable was warm to the touch and the plug and socket were hot.
After they left it struck me as odd that they didn’t offer any money for the obvious amount if electricity they had gained and I wondered when I go to stay with them next whether I should ask them to fill my car with petrol at their cost
A genuine question though - what is the etiquette here?
That's a bit rude, to be honest.We had friends overnight once and they asked to plug their electric Volvo in overnight in order to be able to continue their journey the next day. Next morning the extension cable was warm to the touch and the plug and socket were hot.
After they left it struck me as odd that they didn’t offer any money for the obvious amount if electricity they had gained and I wondered when I go to stay with them next whether I should ask them to fill my car with petrol at their cost
A genuine question though - what is the etiquette here?
I wouldn't plan on using someone else's power, and if I did, the first thing I would do is offer to cover the costs.
Nearly, three years into running an EV, I've not done it yet.
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