What they don't tell you about electric cars
Discussion
G-wiz said:
Question.
Have read that EVs can have strong regenerative breaking and 1 pedal driving.
So, if the car has lots of speed retardation, without touching the brake pedal, do the brake lights come on?
If not, is that not a safety issue?
If you're doing 30mph and lift off entirely, the regen will be fairly strong and the brake lights come on.Have read that EVs can have strong regenerative breaking and 1 pedal driving.
So, if the car has lots of speed retardation, without touching the brake pedal, do the brake lights come on?
If not, is that not a safety issue?
If you're doing 5mph and lift off, it's lesser and the brake lights won't come on (probably).
Very smart these EV's.
G-wiz said:
Question.
Have read that EVs can have strong regenerative breaking and 1 pedal driving.
So, if the car has lots of speed retardation, without touching the brake pedal, do the brake lights come on?
If not, is that not a safety issue?
Question.Have read that EVs can have strong regenerative breaking and 1 pedal driving.
So, if the car has lots of speed retardation, without touching the brake pedal, do the brake lights come on?
If not, is that not a safety issue?
How have you read that and not also read the thousands of explanations about the brake lights being activated by deceleration, not the brake pedal!?
Question.
How, even without bothering to read up, have you concluded that manufacturers wouldn't have thought about such an obvious problem? That would be ridiculous - you can't really have thought it possible that car makers would put cars out on the road that could brake without signalling can you..? If you can tie your own shoe laces, I assume you didn't think any such thing. Not really...
TheDeuce said:
How, even without bothering to read up, have you concluded that manufacturers wouldn't have thought about such an obvious problem? That would be ridiculous - you can't really have thought it possible that car makers would put cars out on the road that could brake without signalling can you..?
But the car makers do make cars that brake for no reason. Even with brake lights on, it's stupid. (i.e. ACC getting confused - anyone with a 2022 Golf will know what I mean.)M4cruiser said:
TheDeuce said:
How, even without bothering to read up, have you concluded that manufacturers wouldn't have thought about such an obvious problem? That would be ridiculous - you can't really have thought it possible that car makers would put cars out on the road that could brake without signalling can you..?
But the car makers do make cars that brake for no reason. Even with brake lights on, it's stupid. (i.e. ACC getting confused - anyone with a 2022 Golf will know what I mean.)Have you honestly just posted to point out that autonomous car tech isn't faultless? Neither are the old farts that brake for no reason when they're driving at 38mph along a quiet nat speed limit road. Shall we uninvent old people too?
Please stop posting things that are as obvious as they are uninteresting
Oh dear.
Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Edited by Welsh_horsepower on Sunday 18th February 10:59
Welsh_horsepower said:
Oh dear.
Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Nothing stopping you tinkering with the suspension, brakes, bodywork, interior etc...Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Edited by Welsh_horsepower on Sunday 18th February 10:59
Fastlane said:
Welsh_horsepower said:
Oh dear.
Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Nothing stopping you tinkering with the suspension, brakes, bodywork, interior etc...Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Edited by Welsh_horsepower on Sunday 18th February 10:59
Welsh_horsepower said:
Oh dear.
Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
What makes ypu think you can't do the same with an electric car? Based in the title, I was expecting a decent, balanced discussion challenging the environmental credentials and purported human rights issues surrounding battery manufacturer, but no, just the same old rubbish about cost and charging. Battery life and range is hardly an unknown of electric cars, and yet here we are again, must be conspiracy theories and big brother’s iron fist not telling you that your battery will run out or need replacing at cost
On another note, as HEV, and more so BEV vehicles rise to succession over ICE cars, it will spell the end of DIY car maintenance and repairs. Scandal it isn’t, but it is a sad reality as people have worked on, tinkered with, and mended their own cars for over 120 years and it’s going to come to an end soon. I think that’s the saddest part of the EV future, not range or battery life!!
Edited by Welsh_horsepower on Sunday 18th February 10:59
They need less maintenance (thats a bonus) but if they break there is nothing stopping you fixing them.
True. However, as a DIY mechanic with a moderate level of skill and equipment, and a sensible outlook on your own self preservation, to work on an electric vehicle you are confined to suspension, brakes, and bodywork. A lot of the work and thus enjoyment (subject to personal opinion as to whether it is enjoyable, I suppose) on working with ICE vehicles is working on the engine, gearbox, etc. for many DIYers. Getting a car that’s been standing for 10+ years turning over and running and recommissioned is what will die out. That experience will go. Sure you could apply that logic to an EV, I suppose. But to do the same with an EV that’s been standing for years (‘barn find’ or whatever naff term is applied these days) needing recommissioning and a new battery would take away that very simple enjoyment that you would get with an ICE car. You would have to hand straight over to a specialist to deal with the HV part, new battery, checking motors, and I feel that would then ultimately take the shine off the whole process.
Unless, as a DIY ‘tinkerer’ you go and get properly trained, and buy the necessary equipment to then do your own repairs, there will be a big limit to what can be done in the future at home, on electric cars without risk to your life. As you all say, it’s not totally impossible, but there will be a limit to what you can do in the main, without specialist training and equipment.
Not against EV’s at all, I think they have their place. I’m not totally sold on them being the future, but they don’t deserve the negativity and mockery they often receive, and negative posts belittling range and battery life as with the OP here.
Unless, as a DIY ‘tinkerer’ you go and get properly trained, and buy the necessary equipment to then do your own repairs, there will be a big limit to what can be done in the future at home, on electric cars without risk to your life. As you all say, it’s not totally impossible, but there will be a limit to what you can do in the main, without specialist training and equipment.
Not against EV’s at all, I think they have their place. I’m not totally sold on them being the future, but they don’t deserve the negativity and mockery they often receive, and negative posts belittling range and battery life as with the OP here.
Welsh_horsepower said:
Not against EV’s at all, I think they have their place. I’m not totally sold on them being the future, but they don’t deserve the negativity and mockery they often receive, and negative posts belittling range and battery life as with the OP here.
You've go to have positive and negative posts for EVs, a whole battery of them in the current thread.eldar said:
Welsh_horsepower said:
Not against EV’s at all, I think they have their place. I’m not totally sold on them being the future, but they don’t deserve the negativity and mockery they often receive, and negative posts belittling range and battery life as with the OP here.
You've go to have positive and negative posts for EVs, a whole battery of them in the current thread.TheDeuce said:
M4cruiser said:
TheDeuce said:
How, even without bothering to read up, have you concluded that manufacturers wouldn't have thought about such an obvious problem? That would be ridiculous - you can't really have thought it possible that car makers would put cars out on the road that could brake without signalling can you..?
But the car makers do make cars that brake for no reason. Even with brake lights on, it's stupid. (i.e. ACC getting confused - anyone with a 2022 Golf will know what I mean.)Have you honestly just posted to point out that autonomous car tech isn't faultless? Neither are the old farts that brake for no reason when they're driving at 38mph along a quiet nat speed limit road. Shall we uninvent old people too?
Please stop posting things that are as obvious as they are uninteresting
My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
TheDeuce said:
What's that got to do with a random theory that cars with regen don't display braking lights!?
Have you honestly just posted to point out that autonomous car tech isn't faultless? Neither are the old farts that brake for no reason when they're driving at 38mph along a quiet nat speed limit road. Shall we uninvent old people too?
Please stop posting things that are as obvious as they are uninteresting
Most people that constantly brake are youngsters on rural roads, they just cannot read the road ahead.Have you honestly just posted to point out that autonomous car tech isn't faultless? Neither are the old farts that brake for no reason when they're driving at 38mph along a quiet nat speed limit road. Shall we uninvent old people too?
Please stop posting things that are as obvious as they are uninteresting
fatjon said:
You may think this is so obvious that only an idiot would question whether manufacturers have thought about it..
My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
I'd read that it's a fault, as opposed to KIA not thinking about it. The brake light is supposed to come on in all cases except for 0 or 1. Quite different to the discussed scenario.My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
dvs_dave said:
stevemcs said:
On most cars you would only need 1 belt change in 10 years, yes you have an oil service but don’t electric cars need servicing too ? So in reality the running costs are not that massively different
EV’s require way less maintenance. Brake fluid changes, and tyres about the only regular maintenance items they have in common with ICE. Oh, and cabin air filters.So in reality EV running costs are massively cheaper to run than ICE, not to mention “fuel” costs.
Very little of our mechanic work is on engines or drive trains. It's on brakes and suspension, and broken internal bits like electric mirrors or windows, or infotainment panels, or body control units. Can't see EV being less than ICE. I reckon EV will be more expensive for similar age / mileage cars. Added to that EV is currently less reliable than ICE (Can't make it up), and I reckon the cost savings won't be as huge as one might think.
But who cares, people will drive what suits them, me included.
Zero Fuchs said:
fatjon said:
You may think this is so obvious that only an idiot would question whether manufacturers have thought about it..
My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
I'd read that it's a fault, as opposed to KIA not thinking about it. The brake light is supposed to come on in all cases except for 0 or 1. Quite different to the discussed scenario.My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
TheDeuce said:
Zero Fuchs said:
fatjon said:
You may think this is so obvious that only an idiot would question whether manufacturers have thought about it..
My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
I'd read that it's a fault, as opposed to KIA not thinking about it. The brake light is supposed to come on in all cases except for 0 or 1. Quite different to the discussed scenario.My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
It's like engineers just don't think about this kind of thing, but have the presence of mind to ensure cars have pre tensioners, airbags, a myriad of other passive and active protections, crumple zones and everything else.
But brake lights, nah.
Zero Fuchs said:
TheDeuce said:
Zero Fuchs said:
fatjon said:
You may think this is so obvious that only an idiot would question whether manufacturers have thought about it..
My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
I'd read that it's a fault, as opposed to KIA not thinking about it. The brake light is supposed to come on in all cases except for 0 or 1. Quite different to the discussed scenario.My 23 EV6 GT just had a software fix for it. Before the fix the regen had to all but stand it on it’s nose before the brake lights came on. Afterwards, it is pretty much as you might expect it would be if they had given it some thought. So assume nothing!
It's like engineers just don't think about this kind of thing, but have the presence of mind to ensure cars have pre tensioners, airbags, a myriad of other passive and active protections, crumple zones and everything else.
But brake lights, nah.
TheDeuce said:
I suppose it must fleetingly be a nice moment though, for a simpleton to suddenly have a brain fart and realise a major problem with electric cars and share their wisdom publicly. There has to be a brief moment of smugness ahead of reality hitting and it being pointed out that hundreds of people with collectively thousands of years of car design experience might have thought of the same problem..
automotive isn't my field (aero) but the angles we need to cover is insane. The equivalent would be someone asking if anyone had ever considered what might happen if a fan blade broke off during flight. No, of course not 
Incidentally I've just looked it up and apparently there was a logic issue whereby brake lights would come on if you lifted off completely but not if you finessed the pedal and decelerated aggressively but still had the pedal down slightly. This is something that affected Hyundai and Genesis too but has been acknowledged and a fix issued.
I have a similar thing with my i3s as I can decelerate at a rate that's just below the threshold for the brake light. But honestly it's the equivalent of engine braking so not really an issue, but obviously it's an issue because EVs need to be perfect!
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